Huge 200 litre tank onboard filling the boot but still looks interesting..........   

Fuel is about 30p a litre.

 

https://www.byri.net/2022/05/12/a-fuel-cell-renault-zoe-drove-2000-km-without-recharging/

A fuel cell Renault Zoe drove 2,000 km without recharging

ARM Engineering has equipped a Renault Zoe with it, which has just broken a double distance record by covering 2,055.68 km with a full 200 L on the Albi circuit while driving at 50 km/h.

 

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=749061669798661

 

It's a confusing article, clearly as a pitch for their fuel and fuel cell.

It's 80% less CO2 than a toyota mirai (hydrogen fuel cell) and it reduces CO2 emissions 80% vs a petrol car if you're burning their fuel.

 

Interesting as the tech could be (and freely admit I don't know enough about it), the above pair of claims suggest someone somewhere between the marketing department and the journo has possibly either got confused or been a bit liberal with the facts.

On 14/07/2021 at 17:42, dieselV6 said:

These graphs completely neglect energy storage. Fossil fuels as well as synthetically made fuels using green electricity have storage and transport costs over magnitude lower than electricity stored in current batteries.

 

 

Interesting stat from a Cambridge professor in heavy vehicles: It takes 18 times more fuel trucks to deliver same amount of energy as a truck of diesel. So there goes the transportation argument for hydrogen.

 

According to the podcast, ALL current hydrogen refuel stations electrolysis has been done on-site. Meaning instead of 1 kWh of energy going into a battery and then into 0.8 kWh of energy turning wheels, we have to have the same grid infrastructure built and only get 0.4 kWh of energy turning the wheels.

 

For storage, EV are battery on wheels. My Tesla stats show over last month or so, 900-ish miles (above UK average), 96% of the time car is parked. During this 96% of its existence, it can be used to store excess renewable energy.

 

 

 

The processor is involved with this organisation. Instead of fossil fuel lobbying and politics, this is an science evidence based website on hydrogen. Its blog do fact checking on hydrogen claims:

https://h2sciencecoalition.com/blog/

Edited 4 October, 20223 yr by wyx087

20 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Instead of fossil fuel lobbying and politics

 

Do you mind me asking if you have anything to declare in relation to electricity generation or supply?

 

There's no denying that with high adoption of EVs and a charging/discharging system controllable centrally the National Grid and electricity generation/supply in general gets an incredible benefit.

 

13 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Do you mind me asking if you have anything to declare in relation to electricity generation or supply?

No financial interest in relation to any generation or supply what so ever. 

 

I'm only guilty of being interested with the tech and very frustrated at the speed of transition due to non-science-based "debates" created by fossil fuel industry. So I try to dispel as much mis-conception as possible. 

 

The only tangible link is that I am an electronic engineer. So wider adoption and higher demand for electronics could in-directly benefit my job perspectives. But my current employer have absolutely zero stake in this market. 

Cheers. 👍

On 04/10/2022 at 15:52, wyx087 said:

...<snip>

According to the podcast, ALL current hydrogen refuel stations electrolysis has been done on-site. Meaning instead of 1 kWh of energy going into a battery and then into 0.8 kWh of energy turning wheels, we have to have the same grid infrastructure built and only get 0.4 kWh of energy turning the wheels.

<snip>...

 

But the vehicle using the energy to turn the wheels might well weigh a lot less than a BEV with an equivalent range.

It's swings and roundabouts.

 

More important is that the 0.4 is more than the equivalent 0.2 or less for petrol/diesel.

 

You seem to miss that there are many people I know who travel for business who point blank refuse to buy a car they have to plug in as they can't be doing sitting at a charger for 2 hours + a day. These people are real and most of them would happily buy a hydrogen car as "you can fill up in 5 minutes and be gone".

 

So again, whilst a BEV might be the best option (Subjective) the hydrogen EV would bring many people along, drop the localised air polution and at the very least be a great stepping stone for the stubborn.

 

The thing I took from the video is how massively inefficient it is to produce hydrogen. To produce enough hydrogen to give a car 300 miles range (for example) you need three times the amount of electricity an equivalent BEV would need. Scale that up national size and instead of needing (figures plucked from the air) 30 gigawatts of new generation to power the decarbonisation of cars, you need 90 gigawatts. That's a huge amount of extra generation needed in pursuit of an unproven technology. Its the electrical power needed to create hydrogen that makes it unviable IMO, not necessarily the technology to make it work. 

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

So again, whilst a BEV might be the best option (Subjective) the hydrogen EV would bring many people along, drop the localised air polution and at the very least be a great stepping stone for the stubborn.

On one hand, the charging infrastructure is well under way and easily put in for 60% of the population.

On the other hand, it's extremely inefficient, next to no infrastructure and opens the door for more fossil fuel involvement as "stepping stone".

 

Insert here what Luckypants said.

 

Yes, there are the 40% often quoted to be drivewayless. This is where public infrastructure need to step up.

Yes, there are those who actually NEED 600 miles of range within 5min re-energise. Let's be honest, they are the minority. My suggestion is to ensure BEV is rolled out in a massive scale to ensure public perception of cars has changed and plugging in has become totally normal...... Before even think about introducing hydrogen fuel cell.

 

Reason for normalising plugging in is less to do with personal transport, more to do with using these valuable batteries as solution to our expensive gas powered electricity grid. We need more cheap renewables, and the only way we can have reliable grid with cheap renewables is to have huge amount of storage capacity on the grid. Where are those storage capacity? They are on wheels not doing anything 90% of the time.

A mix of fuels & energ sources are needed and Aberdeen & part of Fife & around the Moray Firth and Northern & Western Islands have loads of available electricity and more coming which is why they are producing Hydrogen.

 

Pity that somehow there is seemingly according to the Prime Minister an energy crisis in Scotland & it needs Nuclear to assist the UK.

 

What there is is too much being paid for energy that is being produced while the supply is being limited to manipulate the prices / costs.

 

That is why the 'Cap on profits / mark up'  might be coming.  http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63224014

 

The people of the UK are being conned at how cheaply electricity can be produced and provided and that the infrastructure and storage is an issue of Governments making.

http://news.sky.com/story/government-plans-cap-on-revenues-of-renewable-energy-firms-12718382

 

Conned as well by middle east Gas & Oil Producers like those Kwasi Kwarteng MP was visiting only in February who were flying him around giving him a nice jolly and having undue influence.

All coming out in the wash though after FOI requests. 

 

Lots of towns and cities are near the sea, most of the biggest are or by rivers, that is why they are where they are, or near hills.

So possible wave, wind, hydro is not far away.  Local transport is local and council vehicles are local.

Hydrogen and electric for within the towns and cities, and hydrogen can get you city to city.

 

Not rocket science or rocket fuel.

 

 

http://

 

Edited 12 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

It makes absolutely ZERO sense to put a cap on cheap renewable revenue when the increased price is induced by rising gas price. It sends the wrong message and will stifle investment in new renewable projects.

 

The electricity pricing system is broken. Solution: fix the system!

The generation is too reliant on one form of expensive fuel, solution: incentivise to get more cheaper generation built, not cap their profits!

 

I'm sure have nothing to do with party funds funnelled from the fossil fuel industry. Hell, Truss spent four years working for Shell.

Nadhim Zahawi, Kwasi Kwarteng, Liz Truss just the start of those that have their Oil & Gas Business Donors, the Conservative Party is flooded with money from Oil & Gas.

Boris & Priti Patel might be out of the picture now but plenty went towards him & her just this past year.

 

Lots of Oil & Gas and energy companies representatives at the SNP Conference last week including Drax.

http://theferret.scot/snp-criticised-hosting-major-polluters-conference

 

 

Edited 12 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

I guess you’ll end up with BEV to replace petrol and FCEV or similar to replace diesel (back when the der pump was smelly and only used by those who really needed a diesel car).

32 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

It makes absolutely ZERO sense to put a cap on cheap renewable revenue when the increased price is induced by rising gas price. It sends the wrong message and will stifle investment in new renewable projects.

 

The electricity pricing system is broken. Solution: fix the system!

The generation is too reliant on one form of expensive fuel, solution: incentivise to get more cheaper generation built, not cap their profits!

 

I'm sure have nothing to do with party funds funnelled from the fossil fuel industry. Hell, Truss spent four years working for Shell.

Depends how they implement the cap. If it’s by removing the linking to gas of electric prices that’s good.

 

If it not that but it’s a lever to get legacy renewables onto modern contracts that’s ok too. Don’t forget suppliers on long term supply contracts won’t be affected.

 

If it’s just we won’t pay as much for renewables as gas… they’re mad.

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

including Drax.

 

Very environmentally responsible company... https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001cw6z/panorama-the-green-energy-scandal-exposed

3 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I guess you’ll end up with BEV to replace petrol and FCEV or similar to replace diesel (back when the der pump was smelly and only used by those who really needed a diesel car).

Similar, but only after plugging in BEV becomes normal. Then introduce hydrogen FC extended range EV for the final few and only have hydrogen refuel stations on trunk roads for people using those cars to drive long distances. Will still need to plug in whenever possible.

 

3 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

If it’s just we won’t pay as much for renewables as gas… they’re mad.

I think this is the way government will go unfortunately.

 

Remove price linkage to fossil fuel requires a rewrite of UK's electricity market. So won't be the first one. Getting new contract will usually mean one party getting screwed over. So if government is looking to save pennies due to introduction of price guarantee, it would mean renewable generation getting the raw deal.

The only oil and gas shortages now and in the next several generations are because of cartels controlling how it is taken from the ground and transported and traded.    The food and water and energy shortages are war related and also in the hands of traders and speculators.      European governments have decided that Climate change and global warming can be ignored for a year or 3 till they sign out and it is others problem.    Tens or hundreds of Thousands killed in wars, and millions die prematurely from pollution and have bad health pre death.     Most important is the sight of starving and dying children.    The wealthy bother about cars. 

Edited 13 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

They make it look like a faff, just as many do at a LPG pump or even at an EV charger.

 

 

 

I read that British Gas / Centrica are investigation having Hydrogen vehicles.    Makes sense if they are going to have Hydrogen plants, / filling stations.   Maybe when the 2 Green Freeport's are announced in Scotland they will have ones there.  Maybe Aberdeen being one and where they could already have a fleet using hydrogen.        It will be a help with Public EV chargers where British Gas vans can be occupying them for hours.   But that is becoming common with business now where there vehicles are dumped at charge bays blocking other users. 

Edited 30 November, 20223 yr by toot

Another balanced view on hydrogen powered stuff from industry export:  (ignore the rant from hydrogen skeptic Robert) 

 

 

Not hydrogen, just petrol to help a small battery go further.

 

http://autoexpress.co.uk/mazda/mx-30/107991/mazda-mx-30-r-ev-revealed-novel-rotary-range-extender

 

 

 

Range extended EV's, just the way plug-in hybrid EV should be.

 

There's also Nissan e-power, where ICE isn't involved in driving the wheel, only the electric motor. Shame its battery has been reduced to nothing and all energy comes from fossil fuel.

https://youtu.be/_uTZWaJU6ho

 

Interesting, I thought.

Scotland's last nuclear power station is due to close in the next year or so and there are no plans for any new ones being built as much as the UK Government think they can push for them.

That means it is going to be Hydrogen from Wind, wave / hydro and solar producing the Hydrogen for Scotland and for export.

 

 

 

Edited 12 February, 20233 yr by toot