We picked up my Wife's new car yesterday, I have noticed a few things:

The car has a definite judder on idle, feels like a slight miss (or someone moving in the back seat)

When at a junction and holding the car on the clutch for a moment before moving off the car has a real knock knock knock judder.

It occasionally stutters a small amount at lower revs.

Took it back to the dealer today who says it is normal for this car. I'm a diesel driver so not sure what to expect of this small engine.

Does it sound normal for this car?

Cheers

 

29 minutes ago, Nikonite said:

We picked up my Wife's new car yesterday, I have noticed a few things:

The car has a definite judder on idle, feels like a slight miss (or someone moving in the back seat)

When at a junction and holding the car on the clutch for a moment before moving off the car has a real knock knock knock judder.

It occasionally stutters a small amount at lower revs.

Took it back to the dealer today who says it is normal for this car. I'm a diesel driver so not sure what to expect of this small engine.

Does it sound normal for this car?

Cheers

 

 

Welcome to my life of idle judder, have had it since I got the car nearly 4 years ago. I've replaced sparkplugs, filters and done an inspection for carbon build up but nothing out of the norm.

 

The MST turbo intake does help alleviate the problem when changing gears or pulling away

 

The car isn't a diesel and will require a bit of revs to get going, the engine usually bumps the revs a bit automatically if you are too low which can be seen as stuttering/makes the car jumpy.

 

For a smooth pull away, I usually target 2-2.5k RPM. Annoying but required.

 

I too came from diesel before this and still haven't perfected pulling away.

Edited 5 August, 20214 yr by steevs

Brilliant thanks. I'm presuming some kind of anti stall system?

 

Hi Chris, my wife has a 2018 1.0 TSI Fabia, I don't detect any particular juddering from the clutch or engine when pulling away - not quite as smooth as my Octavia 1.4, but certainly no need to pull more than around 1500 RPM on launch. 

I'd suspect some sort of clutch, flywheel or engine mount problem if it's juddering when "holding" on the clutch.  

IME EA211 1.2tsi is a bit jerky when first started from cold for a couple of minutes. I think this is due to rich running while the CAT is being warmed.

 

Persistent idle judder, if you've eliminated ignition may be down to a failed vibration damper, integral to the crankshaft pulley.

Hmm, this is really hard to miss. The clutch itself seems fine, not at all high, no slipping etc. I don't think this has a dmf but it isn't a million miles away from the signs of one failing on a diesel.

Chris, my experience of my wife's 1.2 TSI is that starting from cold it can be a little rough sounding and feeling as @xman put.

 

I try to never just start a car and just pull off, I like to check the warning lights at switch on as I put my seatbelt on before starting the engine and then check what goes out or stays on shortly after starting and listen to the engine but even doing this the engine is a bit uneven for a short while after pulling off  and very shortly having to give way and stop at two close junctions.

 

Do have a good read of the 'Operating Instructions' booklet as it has a lot of useful information, if not the best or easiest read and keep your car battery in good order (keyfobs too) as the computers don't like low batteries and can easily get their panties in a twist.

 

You only need normal revs to pull away.

 

Edited 5 August, 20214 yr by nta16
speeling and stuff

1 hour ago, steevs said:

For a smooth pull away, I usually target 2-2.5k RPM. Annoying but required.

This doesn't sound right to me, next time I drive my wife's car I'll see what the revs are from pulling away from cold start (if I remember as I don't normally drive the car that often, unless it's back from the pub, we drive each other to drink!).

 

https://www.gatestechzone.com/en/problem-diagnosis/accessory-drive-system/tvd-failure-signs

Chris,

another way round this is, or to get the dealer's attention more, is to ask the dealer to let you drive a similar car with the same engine and gearbox, doesn't have to be exactly same car age  & mileage if as the dealer claims "they all do that".  And if possible go out with a mechanic too.  As a generalisation, totally honest sales people tend to leave the car trade quite quickly.

 

There are a few possibilities as to what might be the cause but it needs the dealer to scan for error codes, get it in the air for inspection and to do a road test, possibly before, during and certainly after diagnostics and any remedial work.

 

Edited 5 August, 20214 yr by nta16

I  have scanned the car it only has a historic abs vacuum sensor code that hasn't been cleared. I think I'll just see how it goes. The dealer failed to tell us that their warranty (6 months) is a labour only one. We found it later in the paperwork.

1 hour ago, Nikonite said:

The dealer failed to tell us that their warranty (6 months) is a labour only one. We found it later in the paperwork.

TBH I wasn't there and may wrongly be taking your side, but . . . 

 

I'm sure the dealer will say he (usually a he to do this sort of thing) did.  If it's a third party warranty you might still be in a cooling-off period from signing for it.  The salesman will have made commission from selling you this product, if he mis-sold it he's in trouble so will happily let you, or even help you, cancel it (if you're in time). - https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/buying-and-running-a-car/car-warranties

 

 

8 hours ago, Nikonite said:

a real knock knock knock judder.

This is another bit I don't like - perhaps an Italian tune-up would do it the power of good as these cars tend to get clogged from all the 'town use' and if the car battery is low the computers don't like it and can throw all sorts of wobblies, the stop/start system and battery management systems are very invasive over the rest of the car too.  Drive it like a petrol car and not a diesel car, having said that you can't drive a modern diesel car the way you could previously or the computers and DPF will give you extra problem over petrol. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Nikonite said:

I'm a diesel driver so not sure what to expect of this small engine.

Obviously not the same torque but they go well, the Monte Carlo is the (81kW) 108/110 hp engine and according to the Driver's Handbook has (175Nm) 130 ft lb at 1,400-4,000 rpm and 81kW (108hp) at 4,600-5,600.  With me driving and my wife as passenger (no luggage) I found the car goes well at all the speed limits.

 

I've got the tyres pumped up to the Eco setting which really does reduce the rolling resistance which must help with fuel economy and might help with the coasting to charge the battery(?) but does nothing to improve the car's handling.

 

Let us know how you get on

 

Edited 5 August, 20214 yr by nta16

I've a 2016 1.2 TSi but with a DSG box and there's no judder. If it's not the clutch, then I'd suspect a drive shaft problem. 

On 05/08/2021 at 22:41, Nikonite said:

I  have scanned the car it only has a historic abs vacuum sensor code that hasn't been cleared. I think I'll just see how it goes. The dealer failed to tell us that their warranty (6 months) is a labour only one. We found it later in the paperwork.

That vacuum fault could very possibly be significant - I'd certainly try to get to the bottom of it if it's still in the system.

Good point. It may suggest a manifold leak which could explain poor running at low revs. 

@Nikonite  Is the dealership not a Skoda one and the car not an Approved Used Skoda? 

 

?

When did you buy this car which has to be of merchantable quality,

and how many miles has it done,

and what servicing has it had in the past 5 years plus?

 

 

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

On 06/08/2021 at 11:52, TerFar said:

I've a 2016 1.2 TSi but with a DSG box and there's no judder. If it's not the clutch, then I'd suspect a drive shaft problem. 

Dsg versions have a DMF which can disguise engine judder.

 

Another thing to check, IIRC there have been several reports with this engine of loose injectors caused by snapped retention bolts. Usually accompanied by fuel leaking/smell.

3 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

That vacuum fault could very possibly be significant - I'd certainly try to get to the bottom of it if it's still in the system.

Very good point, I totally missed the abs bit, that might explain or tie in with what Chris has put -

• "(or someone moving in the back seat)"
• "has a real knock knock knock judder"
• "It occasionally stutters a small amount at lower revs."

Could it be one or two rear brakes pulsing or stay on(?), it might be a brake and/or engine issue, when these computers get mixed up all sorts of weird stuff can happen.

 

@Nikonite you want to get the code and see what the diagnostic procedure is for it.

 

Keep a copy of the error code report and date, virtual, electronic and definitely printed paper. 

 

If the error code predates your ownership and hasn't been cleared then it probably wasn't dealt with by the dealer before selling you the car but is not a warranty issue, if there was a fault with the brakes when he sold you the car I'd have thought he'd have to sort that at his own expense as a trade seller and I'd tell him so.  Any brake faults are potentially serious.  If he doesn't want to know then if you have any sort of membership or access to legal advice I'd take it.

 

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by nta16

The car was bought from a MG dealer who also call themselves a Skoda specialist. It was collected on the Wednesday just gone. The fault was reported to them on Thursday, the salesman who said any problems come to.me when signing seemed to be staying inside and another person (called himself the service manager) came out and dealt with us. He was super defensive from the off and said all Monte Carlo's (yes just MC not 1.2 TSI) are like this. They don't just idle at 750rpm they all miss a bit and give that vibration / shaking in the car. When I mentioned the stuttering when pulling away he got his mechanic to drive it and said it was fine and as there are no lights on the dash there was nothing to do. The usual trying to make us feel stupid and walk away. For the record I think they are miffed as when we viewed it had decent Michelin tyres, it was advised on the MOT however that the two rears had nails in. They changed them for Chinese ones and I told my wife to insist on decent branded or walk away. We also called Skoda who said the cambelt was overdue so we insisted that was. The friendly staff started to turn a bit after that but we were paying what I consider over book at 9k on a 2015 with 50k.

The brake fault was last year and has not returned according to the scan. I'm reluctant to clear it at the moment, I'd prefer they didn't know I had access to VCDS.

I'm guessing then that the 1.2tsi manual doesn't have a DMF? 

Appreciate the help guys.

@NikoniteIs there any record on new spark plugs having been fitted?

Have you looked at the Air Filter to see if clean / fresh? 

Yes they have serviced it, this is what they have done I may check a few of these things as for instance I believe the cambelt and water pumps are at different ends of the engine.

 

The water pump is not driven by the Cam Belt. 

Which engine code is yours?

 

If it is a CJZC or CJZD then carry on reading.

 

Yes the mechanical water pump and thermostat housing is on the other side of the engine to the cambelt.

There is also a second water pump but that is an electric pump. 

 

Quote from EA 211 TSI Engine service training manual:-

''The thermostat housing is installed on the cylinder head on the gearbox side.

The coolant pump has been integrated into the thermostat housing to produce the most compact cooling system design possible.

The coolant pump is driven by the exhaust camshaft using a toothed belt.''

 

The part number on the Gates website appears to be correct but their image of the bits is wrong?

https://gatesautocat.com/v/skoda/fabia/powergrip®-kit-+-waterpump/gates/kp25680xs-2.html

 

Spark plugs due at 40 000 miles and air filter at 60 000 miles.

Headlamp bulb would indicate you have the projector type front lights with four H7 headlamp bulbs.

 

I use no throttle when starting the car from stationary.

 

 

Thanks, AG Falco

ETA: I was still typing this whilst the two previous posts were, er, posted.

 

I don't think the 1.2 TSI have DMF but it might depend on your gearbox and I don't know what the Monte Carlo have but from elsewhere on this site from another contributor, try this to see if yours is. - https://www.eurocarparts.com/clutch-kit

 

Are the Monte Carlo 'souped-up' a bit over others, different computer and running settings (I don't know) so run differently (go faster settings)?

 

The service manager is the person you should be dealing with he (invariably a man) was, like many (most?) probably picked for his ability to look down on customers and treat them like idiots, remain polite, present facts and let him give the solutions , if not offer them to him but be reasonable.

 

Don't clear the code but do record it and back it up in as many various versions and ways as possible.

 

Water pump change is recommend if doing cambelt, again I don't know but expect it's because the water pumps (or seals/gaskets?) could be iffy(?) and if doing one lot of work might as well do the other (find if it's under warranty).  More info will be on this site if you do a search.

 

Pretty full service (by modern standards), spark plugs and brake fluid should have perhaps been done in earlier years by PO.  Strange engine oil isn't on there unless there's a continuation page.

 

Another thing, did you test drive other examples of this car or know anyone with one?

 

Even if it's an MG Dealership and you've bought a Skoda if things continue not to go well you could try MG, not in England , same as I've found Skoda UK just said ask a Dealership, if you can make contact abroad you're not dealing with the English car trade so different attitudes exist - difficult I know as MG are Chinese.  I've just given away a load of current MG mags a mate gave me with MG details.

 

Edited 7 August, 20214 yr by nta16
speeling and stuff

On 05/08/2021 at 16:44, nta16 said:

You only need normal revs to pull away.

Purely as a non-scientific test yesterday I drove my wife's car to test the revs required to pull off.

 

The car was just from 10 minutes rest after a journey of one-and-a-half-miles and it had been sat in the sun, 22 degrees C, all day so not stone cold but nowhere near fully warmed.

 

I raised the clutch pedal and let the car pull itself without me touching the accelerator pedal at all, I missed at what revs as we live on a narrow road and I have to turn the front wheels before hitting the kerb on the other side.

 

I was unable to drive back as Oakham's Green Devil was on at our micro-pub, handpump as the cask barrels all had to go into the cellar to give a little more room to fit 11 people during Covid restrictions.

 

Oakham's Green Devil is best straight from the cask barrel (tap, gravity) by handpump is much better than the fizzy keg (barrel) and bottle versions which are nowhere near as tasteful (and gassy).