Vibration at motorway speed - 2017 TDI VRS

[Steve_P83]

Evening All

 

I’m at a bit of a loss with a vibration I’m experiencing when driving at motorway speed - felt at approx 63mph and more pronounced 80+ 

 

The car is a 2017 TDI 184 PS DSG, 45k miles - no engine mods or anything like that.

 

The vibration can be felt on the steering wheel, but not excessively so. Can also be felt in the front seat base and floor more so.

 

The brake discs were pretty corroded when I got the car (just a few months ago) so I’ve had new pads and discs all round.

 

I thought it might be wheel balancing so I had that checked…. 3 times now - All good.

 

I noted the tyres were feathered, so rotated. Vibration subsided for a few miles, then back again.

 

Tried a different set of wheels - still there. Also replaced all 4 tyres now, and still the vibration is there!

 

I searched on the forum and saw comments to check wheel bearings and driveshafts. I’ve had the car checked with our senior tech today and no play evident in either. 
 

The car was also back in at Skoda for a warranty eligibility check last week and nothing noted then either! (Which I guess is good for the warranty inception!!) 

 

I’ve got no warning lights on, no fault codes, no excessive noise, just this juddery vibration when on the motorway.

 

Any thoughts would be most welcome!

 

 

Steve

 

 

[flybynite]

1 hour ago, Steve_P83 said:

Any thoughts would be most welcome!

 

One of the first things I would be doing is getting a four wheel alignment done on a Hunter rig at a place that knows how to use it properly.

 

The feathering issue makes me think the geometry is out somewhere

[Steve_P83]

Thank you - I’ll add that next on the list to try!

[varaderoguy]

Definitely tracking. The Octavia is known for throwing out its tracking (I do mega miles so mine get every 6 months)

[bigjohn]

Is it 4x4?

[J.R.]

I have proper old school Dunlop tracking guages and regularly check mine because I can, not because someone making money out of me tells me that I should do, in 16 years and 200000 miles of driving Octavias the wheel alignment has not moved once aside from when I hit a kerb and bent a track rod, I did not need the guages to tell me that there was misalignment.

 

So Octavias are not well known to me for throwing their tracking out whatever that is supposed to mean, it would not have come from the tyre fitter or garagiste would it?

 

What is well known to me is the "Free Tracking Check" always reveals non existant misalignment, well it certainly exists after they have charged you to correct it so I guess the next time they would be telling the truth.

 

And misaligned tracking causing vibration?..................

Edited 23 September, 2021 by J.R.

[Steve_P83]

Cheers for the replies folks

 

Interestingly, I had the alignment checked and adjusted yesterday morning.

 

When I say ‘adjusted’, OSF toe was out by 0,03’, and both rear toe out by 0,01’ and 0.04’ - negligible really and the chap that completed it said he didn’t think it would

make a difference (nor could he feel the vibration on the initial drive…..) 

 

anyhow, after driving it on my usual route after completion it may well have solved the issue! 
 

I didn’t want to be one of ‘those’ owners searching for something that is a characteristic of the car!

 

I guess the only comment now is that the suspension is pretty firm and a little jittery - I understand that this is a common observation on the 5E Octavia…..

[flybynite]

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

And misaligned tracking causing vibration?..................

In the days of your "Old School" Dunlop tracking gauges maybe not, but on modern cars a slight error can make a big difference to vibration. The ever bigger wheels and thinner side walls, harder suspension and lighter, stiffer bodyshells has taken much of the compliance and dampening out of the system. Mis alignment causes wear and the wear causes vibration. It can also vibrate if it causes the tyre to scrub

 

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

So Octavias are not well known to me for throwing their tracking out whatever that is supposed to mean, it would not have come from the tyre fitter or garagiste would it?

Mine was not set accurately from the factory. It was not out by much but that small adjustment was all it took to make the difference. In my experience it is only the Hunter rigs that can set up the cars with the required accuracy consistently day in day out.

 

On some cars different tyre manufacturers need a change in geometry to avoid sawtoothing and vibration. A change in make of tyre can sometimes work but that was not the case with the OP.

 

2 hours ago, Steve_P83 said:

I guess the only comment now is that the suspension is pretty firm and a little jittery

 

Glad it seems to be better hopefully it was the problem and stays like that, but the vRS suspension is known to be quite hard. It is why I have standard suspension  🙂

[Gaz]

4 hours ago, Steve_P83 said:

I guess the only comment now is that the suspension is pretty firm and a little jittery - I understand that this is a common observation on the 5E Octavia…..

 

One would hope they're correct, but minor changes in tyre pressure can make a difference.  My 2015 vRS was certainly firm on the suspension front.  Changing to PS4's from the Bridgestone's it came on made a marked improvement.  Might be worth checking the transport blocks aren't still in place - sounds daft but it won't be the first time they've been discovered years down the road.

 

Gaz

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 September, 2021 by Gaz

[varaderoguy]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

So Octavias are not well known to me for throwing their tracking out whatever that is supposed to mean

I've had numerous MK2 and MK3's over the last couple of years - in different forms and guises - and they have ALL had issues with poor wheel alignment and premature tyre wear.  I have found that the toe is particular suspetible to change and that the rears tend to be more like to suffer from crabbing or misalignment.  I avoid pot holes at all time.....Scotland's roads are not the best (especially in the Borders)

[J.R.]

What do you expect frequenting  establishments every 6 months that only charge if they have to make an adjustment?

 

Any adjustment to a correctly aligned vehicle will result in the symptoms you describe.

 

The suspension on these vehicles is incredibly robust, the location of the front & rear subframes equally but critically the mounting bolts go through large clearance holes and anyone removing them for say a clutch change has to be competent, diligent and aware that it must be realigned with either specialist equipment or very basic equipment (I use 2 laser spirit levels) by someone that knows exactly what they are doing, also the bolts have to be tightened to an incredible torque to avoid subsequent movement, most are unaware (as I was) or simply dont care, and why should they when they can get the punter on the 6 month tracking merry go round?

[J.R.]

When a vehicle crabs it can be either the front or rear axle that is misaligned, a 50/50 chance or perhaps 33/33/33 of one, the other or both.

 

In my experience the unskilled operatives of the 4 wheel alignment set ups never align the first datum axle with the bodyshell and unknowingly force themselves to move a subframe sideways where it is not necessary or they simply scratch their heads and declare that the vehicle must have been in an accident.

[DC04R]

Had this exact problem with mine. 

 

what wheels were/are on it? And what condition?

[flybynite]

4 hours ago, J.R. said:

In my experience the unskilled operatives of the 4 wheel alignment set ups never align the first datum axle with the bodyshell

 

That is why I say find a Hunter Rig with someone who knows how to operate it

[Steve_P83]

4 hours ago, DC04R said:

Had this exact problem with mine. 

 

what wheels were/are on it? And what condition?

 The car had the original 18” Gemini wheels with Michelin Primacy 4s

 

I’ve swapped them out for 18” Borbet Cadiz (from Golf R) with Bridgestone T005s 

 

All wheels have been in great shape actually. I had the Cadiz refurbed before fitting, but all have been true and balanced right

[DC04R]

Mine turned out to be buckled. No matter how many times skoda 'balanced' them. Took them to a proper place with an accurate hunter wheel balancer and showed 3 were buckled. Oem wheels are crap 

[J.R.]

Once again a case of people relying on the equipment without even understanding the basic principles, you dont need a proper place with an accurate whatever make machine, a buckled rim can be seen with a MK1 eyeball without even removing from the vehicle.

 

I have spent a very happy afternoon swapping tyres between rims using my old manual tyre machine which I have finally brought over to France, its great to be autonomous again and not have to rely on the very incompetent and insouciant tyre places here. It meant that I had the time to redress the buckeld rims, derust the bead seals and especially deal with the corrosion inside the valve holes and to seal the new valves and remove the bodged inner  tubes that had been fitted.

 

These were steel trailer rims that have been outside for between 30 and 45 years not alloys.

[DC04R]

On 25/09/2021 at 20:55, J.R. said:

Once again a case of people relying on the equipment without even understanding the basic principles, you dont need a proper place with an accurate whatever make machine, a buckled rim can be seen with a MK1 eyeball without even removing from the vehicle.

 

I have spent a very happy afternoon swapping tyres between rims using my old manual tyre machine which I have finally brought over to France, its great to be autonomous again and not have to rely on the very incompetent and insouciant tyre places here. It meant that I had the time to redress the buckeld rims, derust the bead seals and especially deal with the corrosion inside the valve holes and to seal the new valves and remove the bodged inner  tubes that had been fitted.

 

These were steel trailer rims that have been outside for between 30 and 45 years not alloys.

 

OK, a 'proper place' that has decent standards then. A lot of folk will try and balance it out with weights. Doesn't take a lot - again some people won't be as fussy - I am.

 

In my case it was 3 buckled wheels. 4 new wheels and 4 months of being shook about on the motorway came to an end.

[DC04R]

On 24/09/2021 at 19:33, Steve_P83 said:

 The car had the original 18” Gemini wheels with Michelin Primacy 4s

 

I’ve swapped them out for 18” Borbet Cadiz (from Golf R) with Bridgestone T005s 

 

All wheels have been in great shape actually. I had the Cadiz refurbed before fitting, but all have been true and balanced right

 

I tried a set of used (OEM) second hand wheels and they wobbled too, despite being 'balanced'. Wasn't until I took it to a proper (decent) garage that I saw how badly they were all buckled. New rims and all good.

 

OEM wheels are soft crap, see if you can try a set that are known to be fault free. I know that's not easy.