New clutch slipping??

[Funkystanley]

Hi all

i had a clutch and pedal assembly fitted about four months ago and recently its been slipping when put under a bit of load (mainly 3rd & 4th gear) at 2000rpm, just before turbo kicks in.

I took it back to the installer and he told me he's tested it according to VW/Skoda recommendations and there's nothing wrong with it.  The offside rear brake caliper however, was catastrophically seized so pads, disk and caliper needed replacing.

He suggested that maybe the clutch slip was due to the brake locking on!

I sort of agree with that theory but didnt think (non-knackered) clutches were that weak that a binding brake would cause it to slip.  The car rolled ok on the flat!

I had the brake sorted but drove the car away and the clutch is still, what i believe to be, slipping.

The engine hits 2000rpm, rises rapidly to 3250rpm then (keeping the gas pedal at the same level, ie, not dropping off the gas) once the road speed catches up a bit, drops back by 500rpm.

 

[softscoop]

It's not normal behaviour at all, especially after such a short amount of time.

 

Do you know what brand of clutch was fitted? Did you have any sort of warranty or guarantee of the work?

 

It could be a number of things that could cause it:

- Parts fitted were from a reputable brand but are simply faulty

 -A cheap ebay (Techniclutch) "remanufactured" clutch plate

- Something has contaminated the friction surface of the clutch plate.

 

Either way, I would be back to them to investigate this further.

 

 

 

 

[MATT0693]

Definitely not normal.

 

As per above, check what brand was installed and get a claim in under warranty.

The only thing is, you will need to pay for the replacement & fitting upfront, then reclaim it under the warranty.

 

Warranty can be a painful process sometimes, it depends on the supplier.

LUK (Lifetime Warranty) are usually quite good, they will have it back and do a full report on the item highlighting if it is a defect, fitting error or user error.

Some cheaper brands such as 'transmech' can be a battle as they don't often do reports, they either argue it or roll over and pay.

 

Most places will want invoices for initial fitting and removal, so make sure you have them.

 

 

[Funkystanley]

17 minutes ago, softscoop said:

It's not normal behaviour at all, especially after such a short amount of time.

 

Do you know what brand of clutch was fitted? Did you have any sort of warranty or guarantee of the work?

 

It could be a number of things that could cause it:

- Parts fitted were from a reputable brand but are simply faulty

 -A cheap ebay (Techniclutch) "remanufactured" clutch plate

- Something has contaminated the friction surface of the clutch plate.

 

Either way, I would be back to them to investigate this further.

 

Thanks Softscoop.

 

Its a Sachs clutch, which i'm led to believe are good quality.

I did return it to the installer, a reputable guy in Sheffield, and he said he carried out tests according to VW/Skoda guidelines, and that it wasnt slipping......according to the results of the test.

He did say that the rear brake being 'stuck on' might have caused the 'difference in performance'.  Needless to say ive now paid £370 to have the caliper, pads & disk replaced......but still have a slipping clutch.

I'm going to call the guy today actually.

17 minutes ago, softscoop said:

 

 

 

 

[MATT0693]

Sachs are good, they are an OE supplier and will investigate under warranty. 

They have a small section on clutch slip on their website 
https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sachs/technology-in-practice/workshop-tips/clutch-systems/clutch-slipping/

 

I would ask him for a copy of the guidelines used and his findings as a report.

I personally have never seen any 'guidelines' from the manufacturer for the tolerances of a clutch operation.

 

The caliper sticking could be his 'get out clause' for warranty, just incase it comes back on him from the supplier.

Whilst a binding brake caliper could cause a bit of extra stress to the clutch, I wouldn't think it sufficient to cause it to slip unless it was really stuck.

 

I would speak to the garage about warranty, see if they are willing to return it under warranty (presuming they supplied it so have to deal with it)

If they are confident that the fault is with the component or the car/you, they should have no issue as it will either be you or the supplier paying the bill.

 

 

[Funkystanley]

5 minutes ago, MATT0693 said:

Sachs are good, they are an OE supplier and will investigate under warranty. 

They have a small section on clutch slip on their website 
https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sachs/technology-in-practice/workshop-tips/clutch-systems/clutch-slipping/

 

I would ask him for a copy of the guidelines used and his findings as a report.

I personally have never seen any 'guidelines' from the manufacturer for the tolerances of a clutch operation.

 

The caliper sticking could be his 'get out clause' for warranty, just incase it comes back on him from the supplier.

Whilst a binding brake caliper could cause a bit of extra stress to the clutch, I wouldn't think it sufficient to cause it to slip unless it was really stuck.

 

I would speak to the garage about warranty, see if they are willing to return it under warranty (presuming they supplied it so have to deal with it)

If they are confident that the fault is with the component or the car/you, they should have no issue as it will either be you or the supplier paying the bill.

 

 

Thanks Matt.

 

I've just called him and he has agreed to pop out on a test drive with me.

[Funkystanley]

21 minutes ago, Funkystanley said:

Thanks Matt.

 

I've just called him and he has agreed to pop out on a test drive with me.

 

Thats a great link Matt.  Arms me with plenty of info if the investigation goes any deeper (ie, the installer dosnt co-operate)

The only thing im concerned with is if an oil seal has failed and contaminated the friction material, although this only used to happen a lot in the days of bell housing mounted engine/gearbox configurations.....not sure about transverse mounted setups.

[TheClient]

Main seal can still be a problem but he would of seen it as a problem of contamination removing the old clutch if it was done so recent seems unlikely. 

[Funkystanley]

So the outcome of the test drive is....modern TDI's have torque limiters so this is what is making the revs pick up when the turbo kicks in🤨

We drove up a really steep hill (30%) and tried to accelerate in high gears but couldn't slip the clutch.

I asked him why i didnt encounter the slipping until recently and he made a comment about some people wanting to make the most of spending a lot of money🤨🤨

After giving the car a good boot round the city centre (he did, not me) i've found that the clutch isnt slipping!!.....so,i'm at a loss as to why this has happened.

Going to take it out shortly in case it was just a case of it being hot and binding better.

 

 

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, Funkystanley said:

So the outcome of the test drive is....modern TDI's have torque limiters so this is what is making the revs pick up when the turbo kicks in🤨

 

Bull***t

 

The clutch bleed block does have a damper device which VAG call a "Clutch peak torque limiter" it''s function is to slow down the engagement of the clutch if you release the medal quickly, like sidestepping the clutch from a standing start for a burn out, - as you do! - not!!!

 

Their logic is they would prefer the clutch to slip than the drivetrain to be subjected to peak torque, the only time you would notice it is a drag start or snatching a 4th, 5th or 6th gear upshift whilst stamping on the throttle and releasing the clutch mega quick, all the higher powered TDi's will slip the clutch under this abuse.

 

But the above is absolutely not what you described (2K rpm when the turbo cuts in) unless you neglected to mention it was while upshifting.

 

That said the test that he did with you in the passenger seat is the correct one, he could have got the clutch to slip by abusing it but he knows it is now weak and does not want to have to replace it.

 

 

Edited 22 October, 2021 by J.R.

[Funkystanley]

16 hours ago, J.R. said:

Bull***t

 

The clutch bleed block does have a damper device which VAG call a "Clutch peak torque limiter" it''s function is to slow down the engagement of the clutch if you release the medal quickly, like sidestepping the clutch from a standing start for a burn out, - as you do! - not!!!

 

Their logic is they would prefer the clutch to slip than the drivetrain to be subjected to peak torque, the only time you would notice it is a drag start or snatching a 4th, 5th or 6th gear upshift whilst stamping on the throttle and releasing the clutch mega quick, all the higher powered TDi's will slip the clutch under this abuse.

 

But the above is absolutely not what you described (2K rpm when the turbo cuts in) unless you neglected to mention it was while upshifting.

 

That said the test that he did with you in the passenger seat is the correct one, he could have got the clutch to slip by abusing it but he knows it is now weak and does not want to have to replace it.

 

 

I'm thinking its BS too J.R.!

He also mentioned while chatting not to take roo much notice of the rev counter as these can have slight inaccuracies in any case....but to listen to the engine. I had to refrain from saying 'I can hear the effin revs pick up in line with the rev needle climb too'

I don't do any quick shifts (after all,i didnt buy a 1.6 estate to be doing the city circuit of a weekend🤣) but indo give it a progressive but positive push of the pedal from 1500 revs,no torque limiter should stop you from wanting a bit of power when its needed.

Took it out again last night and the slipping is back. The slipping has increased over the last five weeks so another 5 weeks of his 'give it some and see how it goes' advice should finally prove the point.

 

Edited 23 October, 2021 by Funkystanley
Bad spelling

[erindad]

As Above a lot of BS

 

What about taking it to a official VW/Skoda dealer ( or another one ) for their opinion and ask for an estimate to repair. (if slipping )? 

 

At least you will have something to show him he's wrong and what it may cost him to put right.  The longer you leave it the harder it will get for you to get him to repair /replace it.

 

I wonder about the seized calliper in the first place as it rolled OK on the flat. 

 

 

Edited 25 October, 2021 by erindad

[Funkystanley]

Yeah,I'm a bit annoyed about the seized caliper issue....but having read on the forum that this sometimes happens i thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

I have considered getting the AA to inspect it to provide a report but not sure if they actually drive the car or just inspect the parts while the car's standing.

Will look into it. Prefer not to have to pay out any more if I can help it.