4 hours ago, nta16 said:

 

You might be best investing in a good level scan tool or program/App and recording live data,

 

 

I have OBD plain or OBD1 not OBD2 so i can not connect smartphone with those fancy real-time applications.

I have tested many times with OBD11 a scan tool that works with smartphone and my OBD1 port but no errors at all.

Since i don't know anything abut ECU i wonder if there is a ''chip'' inside which controls the cold start only and has nothing to do with performance and relative matters.

The plugs are to match the engine and its set up, 'hot' and 'cold' plugs are relative to the requirement, IIRC the iridium plugs you fitted were ones on the manufacturer's list for a factory standard Felicia with your engine they were not 'hotter' than required for standard.  This assumes the plug manufacturer has the correct information in their database.

 

Whether they are more, or less, suitable than the listed alternative I do not know, whether they are more, or less, suitable than the alternative for your car can only be out by testing in same circumstances with alternative plugs.

 

If you want to buy and install a different set of plugs this will give you the comparison and perhaps show how much difference the plugs are making to your cold start issue.

 

Gas station pump tests:

 

1) 99 Km distance, 13,23 ltr/ 100 Km or 21,35 mpg (city traffic)

2) 153 Km distance, 13,33 ltr/ 100 Km or 21,19 mpg (city traffic)

3) 248 Km distance, 12,9 ltr / 100 Km or 21,89 mpg (city traffic plus some km in boulevard and few round on a small mountain route)

4) 110,3 Km distance, 11,87 ltr / 100 Km or 23,79 mpg (city traffic plus a small trip in the highway)

5) 140,6 Km distance, 9,97 ltr/ 100 Km or 28,33 mpg (mixed routes)

 

As the weather gets warmer (with the Iridium spark plugs) the cold starts getting Worst and the fuel consumption is gettin Worst so here is the proof.

6) 100,5 Km distance, 12,7 ltr / 100 km or 22,24 mpg (city traffic) 

Looks that hot weather-city traffic and iridium don't match in my Felicia and since is the second ''hard lesson'' with iridium spark plugs i don't even want to hear about them in the future. 

Should i give up the fight? NO WAY! I will replace them with new factory Champion platinum plus i will try to find a lambda sensor which is similar to the factory one because the old is a little bit rusty and has the cables cutted and i don't want to weld them.

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I will replace them with new factory Champion platinum plus i will try to find a lambda sensor which is similar to the factory one because the old is a little bit rusty and has the cables cutted and i don't want to weld them.

If you change two items together how will you know which might have been previously to blame and possibly gives improvement.

 

The lambda if at fault will yield by far the best improve over plugs if replaced with a good quality sensor and connections and wiring, you should try this first, retaining the iridium plugs to see what the results are of just changing the sensor (connector, wiring).

 

Then after tests and results change the plugs if you feel it necessary or you just want to then again tests and results.

 

13 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you change two items together how will you know which might have been previously to blame and possibly gives improvement.

 

 

The spark plugs will be changed today, the lambda sensor https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/503246-confusion-with-bosch-lambda-sensors/                                                                                                                                                                    will take some days to come, meanwhile i will monitor the fuel consumption with the original spark plug.

 

 

On 05/04/2022 at 11:16, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the company suggests the P121S-WP

why though?

 

On 05/04/2022 at 11:16, D.FYLAKTOS said:

When the electricity bill comes and IF i don't get a heart attack.

thats A BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGG DEAL

4 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

why though?

 

https://www.sprintfilter.net/automotive/products/skoda/1.3-mpi/15121

4 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the lambda sensor

Given the choice of some "German made" brand and a made in Japan 11 times out of 10 I would buy the one made in Japan.

  

No you can ask them for the p08 media no issues 

10 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

No you can ask them for the p08 media no issues 

 

https://calsport.co.uk/bmw-s-1000-r-naked-14-16-2016/sprint-filter/sprint-filter-p08-performance-replacement-air-filter/pm93s

 

This is?

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

This is?

Well thats the material not the actual filter

https://www.sprintfilter.net/automotive/products/5564/1.3-mpi
there you go

 

Quote

P037 can filter debris as small as 37 microns while providing airflow equivalent to our class-leading P08 road/race air filter.

 

P08 uses a special polyester filtering media with a wire diameter of only 70 microns. Its unique weave pattern can filter debris as small as 80 microns while having the highest permeability for any other air filter brand on the market (our P08F1-85 excluded)

 

✌️

Are you installing this before or after the new plugs and lambda sensor, do you not remember getting on this roundabout before.

 

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

Are you installing this before or after the new plugs and lambda sensor, do you not remember getting on this roundabout before.

 

 

I haven't bought it yet, my main concern is the new lambda sensor (i already installed the Champion spark plugs), after travelling at least 100 Km (city traffic) i will measure the fuel consumption and IF everything is OK i will see what option have for this filter. The shipping rates are very high, it's not something that you can find it easy in a parts store.

The car was parked for some days, due to the warm weather i am using the small motorcycle to go to work.

Today i made a ''bad'' morning cold start (about 4 minutes) and later a refuelling because i will make a small trip the next days and here are the results of the 7th gas station pump:

 

7) 70,1 Km distance, 12,38 ltr / 100 km or 22,81 mpg (city traffic) but the 45 Km were with the previous (not proper) Bocsh Lambda sensor and the rest with the new NGK.

The result totally is not good but compared to the 6th test is one click better which means the ECU ''likes" the factory Champion spark plugs and the factory NGK lambda sensor and does not want other type of spark plugs and lambda.

I will make an about 400 Km trip and let's hope that the ECU will ''learn'' more the factory combination and the cold starts plus fuel consumption will improved.

 

On 29/04/2022 at 09:20, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The result totally is not good but compared to the 6th test is one click better which means the ECU ''likes" the factory Champion spark plugs and the factory NGK lambda sensor and does not want other type of spark plugs and lambda.

Very disappointing that the new NGK lambda, that was exactly as fitted by factory and used on the car for so long, did not give the hoped for improvement (so far) but it is a bad assumption that the ECU likes the Champion plugs and NGK unless you have thoroughly tested the combinations of the four items, including Bosch and NGK iridium plugs.

 

The results may be the same but this is not certain and not tested, you need to change and test only one part at a time if you want to find the culprit of any part of the issue you have.

 

Edited 1 May, 20224 yr by nta16

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

but it is a bad assumption that the ECU likes the Champion plugs and NGK unless you have thoroughly tested the combinations of the four items, including Bosch and NGK iridium plugs.

 

 

 

 

I am on 1st May vacations, so far for 170km distance the new NGK lambda and the Champion spark plugs combination work petfect (as for higway-mountain route fuel consumption) but i have to wait some days more.

Bosch lambda sensor was a big mistake, i lost money in purchase plus in waisted fuel.

On 01/05/2022 at 16:34, D.FYLAKTOS said:

so far for 170km distance the new NGK lambda and the Champion spark plugs combination work petfect (as for higway-mountain route fuel consumption) but i have to wait some days more.

Yes but new NGK lambda and NGK iridium plugs might be even better or at least a bit better, as you already have them it is no additional cost to try them on test.  Which plugs are best overall year round may or may not require year round testing.  Plus you have which is best at your cold start problem.

 

On 01/05/2022 at 16:34, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Bosch lambda sensor was a big mistake, i lost money in purchase plus in waisted fuel.

That is now all water under the bridge or fuel out of the end of the exhaust.

 

6 hours ago, nta16 said:

Plus you have which is best at your cold start problem.

 

That is now all water under the bridge or fuel out of the end of the exhaust.

 

 

I made a cold start test with my father's car (Nissan 2006 model) and i saw that it needed about 3.30-4 minutes to come to the proper idle rpm level so i must complain so much.

The cold starts shown an tiny improvement in the country (maybe the NGK lambda helped) but i have to wait to see in city environment what's going to happen.

 

A similar here in Greece is ''salt and water" (which means like ''all gone and forgotten'')

Update:

 

Before the trip i made a Flow Meter Correction to the TC-6 by 2 clicks +, the correction has a range from -8% till +7% trying to match the results from the Gas Station pump test to the indications of the TC-6, i took some measurements via photo and notes.

I didn't pay attention in purpose to the timer for all the cold starts of this trip, i just waited few seconds and start driving the car.

So here is the AVERAGE fuel consumption in two moments of that trip:

 

 

 

 

In between i took a note of TOTAL fuel consumption, i had 10,6 lt for 162,3 Km distance which means 6,53 ltr/100 Km or 43.25 Uk Mpg which is very close of what the TC-6 shows.

 

 

 

This is while i am on highway, the indication is similar although some times i saw 6,4 or 6,5 ltr when the traffic increased approaching to Athens.

 

 

 

This is the TOTAL fuel consumption, 22,7 ltr for 349,5 Km distance which means 6,49 ltr/ 100 Km or 43.52 Uk Mpg. Keep in mind that that there were 2 persons inside, the tank was full of gasoline (when i began) plus 5 baggages which means sort of heavy combination. If i was alone with lighter load the results could be better.

I am i agony of what the Gas Station pump will show in few days, if the results be so good as the above then i will be relieved after so many months of suffering and anxiety.

 

 

My latest Cold start were one click better than previous, maybe the ECU remembered the good old times with NGK lambda and Champion spark plugs.

After the trip i made another Gas station pump test.

8] 360,3 Km distance and 25,08 ltr fuel which means 6,96 ltr / 100 km or 40.58 Uk mpg. The results could be better (yes better) because the air pressure on tires was one click lower and i had some hard traffic the latest kilometres before arrive at home.

Now after refuelling i will make at least 100 Km on city traffic and after another gas station pump test let's hope that i will close this chapter.

So @D.FYLAKTOS it has been a couple of weeks now are you able to say if the change of lambda and plugs has solved your cold start and given you the improvement in fuel consumption you wanted?

 

And will you try the iridium plugs with the new NGK lambda to see if this makes matters better, same or worse or will you not bother and give the iridium plugs away to someone else?

 

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

So  it has been a couple of weeks now are you able to say if the change of lambda and plugs has solved your cold start and given you the improvement in fuel consumption you wanted?

 

Due to the hot climate here i am using my small motorcycle for the home->work->home routine and not the car.

Meanwhile i manage to make 79Km in city traffic-mountain road (low-medium rpm only) and the results were very good but i have to wait till complete at least 100 Km so i can make a Gas Pump Station test.

As for Cold Starts thing are one click betetr than Winter time but the external temperature is much higher and this helps a lot.

 

5 hours ago, nta16 said:

And will you try the iridium plugs with the new NGK lambda to see if this makes matters bette

 

it's too soon for an Iridium spark plug test, first i have to finish all the tests with the Platinum + NGK lambda and IF the results are very good then i will ''give them a try'' for few months just to have to say a thorough opinion about them.

Fair enough, same as before then, for some reason I did not think the weather was as warm as usual I must have got mixed up with elsewhere.  We will see in x-months time.