Fair enough, you gave it a go.  40 years ago you must have must have been driving vehicles with automatic-choke or forgotten how it is to drive those with manual chokes, before injection and ECUs.  With my manual choke I would be sitting waiting a very long time for  normal idle. It's a matter of what you are used to and best for the car.  My car on carbs ticks over at an indicated about 1,000 rpm which might be a 100rpm less in reality, but on a slower journey might tick over at an indicated 800rpm which sounds too low for my comfort, I don't have car computers to please so I can set the tickover at what I please and not even to factory as the engine is slightly modified.

 

Be interesting to see your comparative figures.

 

On 25/03/2022 at 18:03, nta16 said:

those with manual chokes, before injection and ECUs

 

Cars, tractor, mini-van, armoured vehicles, small and medium size motorcycles all with carburetors and manual chokes, yeah good old times. When the ''injection-ECU'' era started still had the habit to wait a little bit (not as before of course), never liked the ''crank & go'' style and i have done it only in extreme cases where i was in a big hurry but deep inside me i hated this.

Today i done a small trip about 80Km distance, 30% highway and the rest mountain route with curbs (medium rpm) and light traffic till i return back home, the fuel consumption for this trip was 5,60 ltr/100 Km or or 50,44 mpg.

Together with the kilometres that i had before (all of them home-work only) the total fuel consumption from the last refuelling is 8,61 ltr/100 Km or 32,80 mpg which makes me extremely happy!

 

 

Here is a photo of average fuel consumption few kilometres before i arrived home.

16 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Today i done a small trip about 80Km distance, 30% highway and the rest mountain route with curbs (medium rpm) and light traffic till i return back home, the fuel consumption for this trip was 5,60 ltr/100 Km or or 50,44 mpg.

That sounds a really great figure., well done.

 

16 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Together with the kilometres that i had before (all of them home-work only) the total fuel consumption from the last refuelling is 8,61 ltr/100 Km or 32,80 mpg which makes me extremely happy!

Yes I should think you are.  Any idea if a single or couple of changes contributed most to the improvement?

 

On 17/03/2022 at 20:00, D.FYLAKTOS said:

MPG update:

 

I gathered 4 receipts with notes for my latest gasoline refuelling, old fashion way measurements and the results are:

1) 99 Km distance, 13,23 ltr/ 100 Km or 21,35 mpg (city traffic)

2) 153 Km distance, 13,33 ltr/ 100 Km or 21,19 mpg (city traffic)

3) 248 Km distance, 12,9 ltr / 100 Km or 21,89 mpg (city traffic plus some km in boulevard and few round on a small mountain route)

4) 110,3 Km distance, 11,87 ltr / 100 Km or 23,79 mpg (city traffic plus a small trip in the highway)

 

Gas station pump test No5: 140,6 Km distance, 9,97 ltr/ 100 Km or 28,33 mpg (mixed routes) so every time i am getting better although i haven't reach yet exactly my old standards in City traffic.

 

On 17/03/2022 at 22:09, nta16 said:

Any idea if a single or couple of changes contributed most to the improvement?

 

There were too many wrong things those 2,5 years (wrong valve gap, not good NGK spark plugs, faulty TC-6 sensor, dirty air intake manifold, damaged thermostat sensor cables, faulty gauge air filter, ECU-chip needed an update, defective coolant) plus some additions (iridium spark plugs, new MAP, new Lambda, new air box and air filter type) so i have lost the account.

Today i have found another mistake, i must make a small correction (percent % scale) to the TC-6 Flow Meter so the Gas pump quantity to match exactly to the Total consumption on the TC-6 screen but this it's not affects the consume of the fuel, is for informational purpose.

The weather would be steady the next few weeks, i will apply the ''crank & wait" technique for some days and i will record the results in the TC-6 and i hope then to close the whole matter because i know that i have cause you some tiredness.

23 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

then to close the whole matter because i know that i have cause you some tiredness.

Not for me, but extracting some information (modifications) was a bit like visiting the dentist that pulls one tooth a visit.  😄

 

I'm glad you've found improvements and have perhaps relearnt some of the basics you might have forgotten about with the passing of time and introducing changes from standard on your car.  I am not sure if your cold start issue has been fully resolved or will be fully resolved, for that you may have to wait to see for up to another year's time but to me your overall fuel consumption seems very good.

 

Despite what many seem to think and say here not all issues are black and white and with cut and dried solutions, even if you were to take some of the information in this thread to put up in sperate subjects threads I think rightly or wrongly any results, findings and solutions would be over open to question, debate and argument.

 

15 hours ago, nta16 said:

I am not sure if your cold start issue has been fully resolved or will be fully resolved, for that you may have to wait to see for up to another year's time but to me your overall fuel consumption seems very good.

 

Despite what many seem to think and say here not all issues are black and white and with cut and dried solutions, even if you were to take some of the information in this thread to put up in sperate subjects threads I think rightly or wrongly any results, findings and solutions would be over open to question, debate and argument.

 

To be honest i was expecting ''more'' from the iridium spark plugs since they are at least one number ''hotter'' than the factory. I thought that the fuel consumption in City traffic could be a little better than now but let's wait more time.

 

We all are ordinary common mortals and vulnerable. Soon or latter any ''wise guy'' will face a problem and will start asking desperately a solution and yes maybe is a mechanic and can solve almost anything but in other aspects of life it would be just a simple member (in another forum with different nick name) asking with agony for help and that moment the ''attitude'' with flame posts that had will vanished in a blink of the eye.

44 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

To be honest i was expecting ''more'' from the iridium spark plugs since they are at least one number ''hotter'' than the factory. I thought that the fuel consumption in City traffic could be a little better than now but let's wait more time.

The numbering system is quite loose and varies with manufacturer, more of a guide, is an iridium 5 exactly the same characteristics and heat as a copper 5 by the same manufacturer, I've no idea.  The plug is just one link in a long chain and then you have to consider the computer programming controlling various parts in the chain.  The heat range of a plug is often a matter of trial and error with old cars that have been modified.

 

I think forums are not the easiest arenas to communicate in as communication is in passing and written so without hearing and seeing all the cues  that help us understand better mood and meaning, add to someone like me that does not have the best reading and writing skills and for yourself having to deal with a second language mistakes and misunderstandings are bound to be more regular. Then for some the subject matter can be very emotive.  To me, although I have spent a great deal of time, money and hassle on them they're relatively unimportant, lumps or very annoying metal most of the time.

 

7 hours ago, nta16 said:

The heat range of a plug is often a matter of trial and error with old cars that have been modified.

 

I am afraid to ''push things more'' because the summer is coming and we have here high temperatures, let's see those NGK 6 what can do in hot sunny days, in winter were Ok but...

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I am afraid to ''push things more'' because the summer is coming and we have here high temperatures, let's see those NGK 6 what can do in hot sunny days, in winter were Ok but...

Sorry I did not mean to suggest you should change the plugs again.  Unless something has a very notable poor effect I would not change anything at all until you have completed a year round use to see how things are overall, fully.

 

I think I remember you noticed improvements from changing to the iridium plugs and they can last performing well for a long time.

 

Do not put too much faith in numbers and ranges.  For the plugs there's no definition to what they actually mean, the number progression may not be linear and applies within that manufacturer only, another manufacturer may grade the 6 as a 7 or 5 in their system, or 13 or 78 or whatever.

 

A heat range one up or down from standard may give some improvements perhaps in some areas but not all, or may be better or worse than just staying with standard plug.  And your programming needs to suit and will be making changes elsewhere perhaps negating some differences in the plugs anyway.

 

If the plugs help the car to start more easily, tickover more smoothly, accelerate and not misfire anywhere in the rev range you are probably at least on the right track with them.  There is a limit to how much a spark plug can contribute to the overall engine running.

 

Edited 28 March, 20224 yr by nta16

18 hours ago, nta16 said:

Unless something has a very notable poor effect I would not change anything at all until you have completed a year round use to see how things are overall, fully.

 

No problem so far with iridium.

A year? I thought that ECU will be adapted faster.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

A year? I thought that ECU will be adapted faster.

No I was thinking of not replacing ( things like spark plugs) or adding new parts and components until the current set have had a year round real world testing.  It is your ECU remap/chip/download/flash that has the framework from which things work from, I have no idea how much a programming a 22 year old has but none of them really "learn" (computers are brick-thick and only do as they've been told) that is AI.  They function well enough until they have a brain-fart and then they can have strange ideas.  Even the most modern cars generally have old pretty basic chips in them, compare the whole lot of all the modern car's computer's against one of these (so called) "smart" devices and you soon see the car electronics are vintage items.

 

Probably a good thing the car computers are so vintage as can you imagine if they were as reliable as the modern computers we rely on, patches on patches, shaky foundations and balls-ups at every other update.  Can you imagine the fully autonomous Microsoft car finishing an update just as you are driving on a mountain road or overtaking in the outside lane of a motorway, bring another meaning to computer crash.  🙃

 

A guy few days ago suggest me the Simoni gauge filter

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SIMONI-RACING-SR150-Air-Filter/dp/B06XTP394F

as an alternative to K&N and BMC, betetr price etc

but no matter what articles like this say

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/what-are-cotton-air-filters-and-are-they-worth-it/

i don't want to risk it again, enough problems i had in the past.

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

A guy few days ago suggest me the Simoni gauge filter

Avoiding the American monster corporation and going to the supplier's own site and it tells you sweet FA about the filter, elsewhere I have seen it is purported to be made in Italy but no more information than that

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Design-Engineering-040206-Performance-Accelerate/dp/B001HYOO8W

 

I have seen it some years ago but drivers mustn't buy it often because there are not relative videos with tests etc.

Why?  Why are you looking at such things?  You have already tried and used two products and perhaps decided that mixing different additives in different manufacturers' products might not always end well.  You do not have the facilities to do a full cleansing flush and full emptying of existing liquids in your cooling/heating system.

 

DEi appear to be another company that gives no detail to their figures, 50% what of what and when, under what circumstances, avoiding the American monster corporation that is Amazon and going to the supplier's own site and it tells you so little about the product. -

https://www.designengineering.com/heater-hotter/

 

I think you might be looking for a level of solution to a level of problem that does not exist.  VW and other manufacturers test their engines in lot colder and hotter climates than your car is in, do you hear of this cold problem from Felicia owners than use their Felicias in much colder climates than yours?

 

Edited 3 April, 20224 yr by nta16

Just get sprint filter 

On 03/04/2022 at 19:24, nta16 said:

Why?  Why are you looking at such things? 

 I just mention it for informational purposes only, in a promotional video for this product shows a car covered with ice which a girl try to start in the morning etc wich has nothing to do with Greece and my Felicia.

The only promotional video I saw was nothing like that, it was all about the company and not any product.

 

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

The only promotional video I saw was nothing like that, it was all about the company and not any product.

 

 

Scroll down and look to the left, it's the video about the girl and the icy car.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07N8YW1YQ?ref=vse_pfo_vwdp

 

A relative conversation from Bob is the Oil Guy:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dei-heater-hotter.192164/

 

''Your warm up time observation makes perfect sense based on the physics: fill the system with something that lowers the specific heat, the same waste heat causes a greater increase in temp....''

 

21 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Just get sprint filter 

 

When the electricity bill comes and IF i don't get a heart attack.

On the other hand, the company suggests the P121S-WP for me but: should i keep the factory flap mechanism or not? since i have an ECU-chip and custom exhaust this would do or i need another model?

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Scroll down and look to the left, it's the video about the girl and the icy car.

Yes a much more interesting video for me, but more humorous than informative.

 

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

A relative conversation from Bob is the Oil Guy:

I have seen that site before and like all forums it has lots of levels of information and the quality and correctness of that information - bear in mind I am not an expert in anything and make many mistakes regularly so I am not throwing stones.

 

 

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

On the other hand, the company suggests the P121S-WP for me but: should i keep the factory flap mechanism or not? since i have an ECU-chip and custom exhaust this would do or i need another model?

Why even think about these things until you have fully tested what you already have, or you get a significant proven fail on something.  You seem to have a car/fuel consumption dysphoria, when you get your home fuel bills you can concentrate your thoughts and actions on reducing your consumption there.  😄

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

Why even think about these things until you have fully tested what you already have

 

on reducing your consumption there.

 

 😄

 

I just collect informations.

I am on a test of "city traffic only" with "start & wait" to see the fuel consumption.

 

I have reasons that i mention the electricity bill, due to the "ecological spirit" of our PM we pay the most expensive MwH from rhe whole Europe, the latest bill comes 300% more than previous! People lost all their savings, Cafe-restaurants,stores, small factories etc closed and the poor family men-elders are desperate.

Plus we still have Covid resyrictions and the gasoline price is more than 2 euro per litre.

 

These aren't funny.

The weather gets warmer, no cold or rain but the 1st cold start is getting worse and the fuel consumprion according to TC-6 is getting worst too. So we have voodoo magic? the hotter spark plugs are not working in my engine at summer weather? In Friday i will make a refuelling and i will make comparison with previous ones.

I am not sure the spark plugs make that much difference other than being new and clean they probably operate better than old and dirty ones.  Only way to tell for sure is to put in some new plugs that are "colder".

 

You do need to make changes one item or step at a time and then thorough testing if you want to find what is best for your cold starting.  Then you must accept whatever is best for cold starting might not be best for hot starting or overall use but you can only really know from full testing of all the variables which could be a very long process as consecutive cold days  and consecutive hot days can be unpredictable out of their seasons (and within nowadays).  I do not know what it is like where you are but it is far too early for warm summer weather here.

 

You might be best investing in a good level scan tool or program/App and recording live data, I do not know how much information you can get from your car but I wonder if it might be enough to really help speed up and clarify matters for you.   The programs seem a bit more sketchy for earlier cars but cover the essentials and more usually.

 

It is supposed that the hotter spark plugs are for car engines that moving in city, in traffic, low speeds, etc. (they are not for sporty driving at high rpm).  

Now that the weather is getting warmer every day i see more increased consumption, today i had reached 11.3 l / 100 km which are 24.99 mpg far worst that winter days.

I can not accept that those 3 days with high 'C temperature to have worst cold starts than days with low 'C temperatures-cold-rain etc.