Today he have sun ant temperature 6 'C, the fuel consumption for a very normal traffic route House to Work was 11,8 ltr or 23,94 Uk mpg whick is worst than the other days with BMC gauze filter.

It's absolutely unbelievable that my car does not like the stock air filter box and the Paper filter. After almost 3 years of searching-bying and installing new parts-checking notes-thinking-spending hundreds of euro plus money fie excess gasolune etc i am getting tired and my nerves are at the maximum level.

 

If i was in NASA looking for a problem in a space mission i would be better than now.

Good job you do not own an old British car as you would have been beyond tired and nerves burnt out may years (decade(s)) back.

 

NASA would not just go on the results of one test, I would take three as a minimum but more would be better.

 

Easy to find if the BMC is better (for these conditions and circumstances)  - replace the paper with the BMC in the filter box exactly as set up now so that the only change is the filter.

 

The BMC filter frame can be held together with glue and/or duck/gaffer/Gorilla tape, the frame is only to position the filter and seal it and the box, once inside the box you do not see it, as long as it functions correctly what it looks like does not matter.  You put that the filter frame left gaps with the taping you can fill those gaps so improve the filter's function.

 

Edited 11 March, 20224 yr by nta16

My Felicia from 2003 till winter 2020 had:

Ecu-chip, BMC filter, only outside air for cold starts from a wide open hole, exhaust from A to Z at 48mm, stock MAP and Lamba sensor, stock spark plugs, metallic catalytic converter, two bags of tools and fuel consumption from 9,1-9,7 ltr or 31.04-29.12 mpg in city traffic (emission test OK).

Suddenly the fuel consumption start to rise so after a phrenitis of 3 years at sping 2023 has:

Ecu-chip update, Paper filter and stock flap for better cold starts, stock hole for air entry, exhaust from A to Z reduced at 45mm, new MAP and Lamba sensor, iridium spark plugs, new ceramic catalytic as the stock, one bag of tools but some weight from insulation and fuel consumption of 11,8 ltr or 23.94 mpg in a little bit bigger city traffic (emission test OK).

 

The car then (same type of tyres-suspention as now) had better torque and Hp at medium-high rpm, now has them at low-medium, no check engine light, no error codes.

According to logic the car would have much better Mpg but has NOT (tested via TC-6 and will old fashion way), he who will find the solution will take a place in paradise.

 

Yeah, well there are few things I could pick out there but for the sake of your fatigue and nerves I won't.

 

Palm to head though, very obvious omission which I can not remember being covered - fuel, injectors, if they are tired, partial blockage, lots of short journeys, whatever, they could build up dribbles from being used which might hot soak away a bit but overload from cold starts.  This is where live data is useful if available.  Have you tried any good injector or fuel system cleaners, I would like to get my hands on ATS but I think it is only to trade and/or USA.

 

Regular or very regular use of higher cost (and usually octane) fuels might negate this a bit with their additional cleaner quantities in the additive package or possibly timely use of an effective injector or fuel system cleaner.

 

Like spark plugs and other items injectors can still be working but passed their best and optimum and reasonable.  There can be quite considerable tolerances before error codes kick in and yours might not be that bad that they give the usual signs.

 

I was wondering before if the parking underground environment might have some effect on the fuel, so perhaps this has been covered before and I have forgot.  Now was I going upstairs, or downstairs  . . .

 

Edited 11 March, 20224 yr by nta16

12,2 ltr or 23,15 Uk mpg for normal city traffic in 6 'C.

This is a (negative) European record, even some guys with 20VT turbo will beat me.

11,8 ltr / 23,94 Uk to 12,2 ltr / 23,15 Uk is around 3% difference so within a reasonable range of variability or error and the figures are from only one source so need some sort of backing up.  If they remain plus or minus around this point for a number of days with similar weather and journeys then that is a reference point.

 

When was the TC-6fitted and fully working?

 

14 minutes ago, nta16 said:

 

When was the TC-6fitted and fully working?

 

 

82711: TC-6 installed but i had problem with the fuel sensor and didn't worked properly

83363: New fuel sensor installed

84372: ECU-chip update

84493: Coolant mixture corrections

84777: Iridium spark plugs

84844: Stock air filter box with flap installed

 

Now i am about 84989 but i have faith in my instinct and my service notes, somewhere is a mistake i will find it no matter what!

I have some good news from the vapours hose and the new clip from the coolant sensor (both crucial factors in cold start procedure).

19 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Today he have sun ant temperature 6 'C, the fuel consumption for a very normal traffic route House to Work was 11,8 ltr or 23,94 Uk mpg whick is worst than the other days with BMC gauze filter.

It's absolutely unbelievable that my car does not like the stock air filter box and the Paper filter.

 

I believe that different filter created different ratio between the intake pressure and amount of air. You'll need some time before the ECU adapts.

2 hours ago, Papez said:

 

I believe that different filter created different ratio between the intake pressure and amount of air. You'll need some time before the ECU adapts.

 

I will wait.

Meanwhile take a look at this hose, in the end i put a small filter, suppose that hose brings the fumes from the combustion chamber to the throttle but for what reason?

Is it really that sometimes brings dirt to the throttles centre plate?

 

Emissions, instead of putting the crap to the atmosphere it goes through to be burnt.  Back in 50s a hose would just hang to the ground,

 

It another modification (not mentioned before), how this affects your engine ventilation and running depends on your ECU mapping and other modifications and beyond me - but the others will be able to tell you.

 

Edited 12 March, 20224 yr by nta16

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Emissions, instead of putting the crap to the atmosphere it goes through to be burnt.  Back in 50s a hose would just hang to the ground,

 

In the first ''forum years" here in GR some guys told us that those emissions make the throttle to get some muck after long term use and must find a way to get rid of them.

Thus that filter that i put, before i had a sponge which get dirty but i wonder: those emissions at first minutes won't help my cold start?

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

In the first ''forum years" here in GR some guys told us that those emissions make the throttle to get some muck after long term use and must find a way to get rid of them.

Yes they put muck into the mixture, so you have to think about cleaning more than if it did not, that's life.

 

4 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Thus that filter that i put, before i had a sponge which get dirty but i wonder: those emissions at first minutes won't help my cold start?

Well unless I have misunderstood what it is about, which is highly possible, that hose sends muck towards the filter so the inside of the filter will be holding some of that muck, I suppose the filter is providing a bit of resistance especially if coated in muck on the inside.  If the pipe is anything to do with engine pressure too then that has to be dealt with too but I know next to nothing about the engine in my car and nothing of yours but I do not think those emissions will help your cold start themselves.

 

The factory designed the system to comply with regulations and also designed the other systems to cope with it, there will be compromises but when new and when the engine is serviced and kept reasonably clean things should remain reasonable running.  remove the those emissions is ok if any other consequences of doing this are successfully dealt with.  If things worked fine before they could be made to again.

 

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

Yes they put muck into the mixture, so you have to think about cleaning more than if it did not, that's life.

 

The weird thing is that i removed that small filter to clean it. I knew from previous situations that it must be dirty but look what i saw:

 

 

 

 

 

It's clean like i install it a week before, even at bottom (where the beige colour was from the factory) there isn't any sign of dirt. So what's happening?

 

 

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

but I do not think those emissions will help your cold start themselves.

 

 

 

 

The yellow hose is from hard plastic and i haven't touch it except 2 times (all these years) which i clean the internal with spay. I return the emissions back to the throttle as the factory has it (bigger hose) since i see no oil-dirt on the filter, i think will help me somehow to solve my problem.

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

So what's happening?

Perhaps your engine is really running that clean, or perhaps the hose is not working as an outlet for some reason, could it be working as an inlet even.  The old way to test if the positive crankcase was working on my old engine was to have the engine running at idle and remove the oil filler cap, which is also a filtered inlet, and if the sound of the idle changed things were working, you could also, without the engine running blow down the outlet hose with the oil filler cap off to see if you could feel the breath on an open palm.  But I have not idea how it works with your engine and set up.

 

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I return the emissions back to the throttle as the factory has it (bigger hose) since i see no oil-dirt on the filter, i think will help me somehow to solve my problem.

Yes and if you see oil-dirt at the end of the hose yet you still get improvements then perhaps this was at least part of the issue but you will have to wait and see if this fits in well with your other modifications.  Do not get the idea that I am against modifications as my car has many.

 

Edited 13 March, 20224 yr by nta16
idle changed

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Perhaps your engine is really running that clean, or perhaps the hose is not working as an outlet for some reason, could it be working as an inlet even.

 

In the past at the end of the hose i had dirt with some drops of oil, i have seen it with the previous small filter that i had in the end and for few months i had just as an experiment a piece of sponge which became dirty after few months.

No everything is clean! Even inside the blue filter there is nothing and this make me very happy.

 

As we spoke before for filters i searched for the Pipercross which are Foam. They need a Kit https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/616J2yvb5LL._AC_SX679_.jpg (clean and spray) as the gauze ones so i don't think i will buy one because it's the same process.

 

For educational reasons, i have found another very old video (promotion) with another type of Foam filter.

 

 

 

At 4:41 admits that gauze filters flow more than Paper of Foam.

37 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Even inside the blue filter there is nothing

But is this as it should be.

 

37 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the Pipercross which are Foam

Pipercross is a very local company to where I live, they started in what used to be the nearest village.  I once had a car with one of their filters fitted, I bought the cleaning and dirt retention kit to service the filter and I did not like it at all, it was like adding honey to a fuzzy stick.  I swapped it for a K&N as the filter was on British sports car and in an awkward place to get at and I wanted fit and forget.

 

Northamptonshire, the county area where I live, was an engineering county (along with boot & shoe) and still has lost of associations with motorsport (Cosworth and other German lot as just two) the drag strip is in the next county but nearby, yet funnily enough unless you are in the trade or in motorsport it is very difficult to get more than basic car work or parts.

 

EBC brakes are a local family set up and run business, I've not used their products.

 

Edited 13 March, 20224 yr by nta16

This is an excellent video for Paper filters only.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are 3 screenshots from this video, very informative and i will have these in mind when it's time for the next filter change.

Interesting video.  I am not sure the chap has much knowledge of production of parts like these and package labelling.  Production quality can depend on who is running the machines that produce the filters, who is maintaining the machines, variabilities of materials and such more more.  Newer machines set up correctly with experienced operators may be better than more worn machines and/or less experienced operators.

 

Having the correct size is a different matter and the one from India being wrong is no great surprise, I expect the Champion one made in China may drop in quality as the contract or personnel change in the future.

 

For the frame shape having curvature I would have thought this may not matter if it is a good fit in the housing as it is clamped so would straighten, if that is what he meant.

 

As with any product testing for such low cost items it would be best to takes samples from different batches, be interest to see the same filters bought and tested 6 months later, I would expect the better designed filter to remain so but the rankings for the intermediates could different or closer or further apart.

 

As he said production of the same product may from different factory locations so could vary and possibly but I do not know production of different brand and labelled products, not necessarily these filters, could be from the same factory machines.  Buying on the internet the product may not be the local one to your region but for elsewhere.

 

A couple of car parts companies whose products I know have production in Poland.

 

As for the Fram box stating the product was made in Great Britain, it might have been, I do not know I would be interested to know if it was, or perhaps it was just packaged here for some reason of finance or even politics.

 

Concentrate on the two or three filters you can get that you think are the best and forget the rest, the matter isn't that critical.

 

I choose mahle or hengst end of story. 

26 minutes ago, nta16 said:

For the frame shape having curvature I would have thought this may not matter if it is a good fit in the housing as it is clamped so would straighten, if that is what he meant.

 

If the filter does not fit perfect it's a matter of time to have issues like me, remember my BMC? Tomorrow i will find another piece that i have left behind and i will make a video with pictures.

I will try also to find my old MAP to see the dirt although i am not sure if i have wiped the excess from outside. That BMC cause me problems.

21 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I choose mahle or hengst end of story. 

The guy doing the video, which bear in mind is for entertainment purposes and to make him money, was for before the video for Mahle and said that was what was in his car but after his test he was a bit disappointed in it because it had curvature of the frame, acceptable if cheap was his verdict - but that was based on his test of that one sample.

 

13 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

If the filter does not fit perfect it's a matter of time to have issues like me, remember my BMC? Tomorrow i will find another piece that i have left behind

If the filter frame leaves gaps then it is not a good fit but if it has a slight curve which straightens out when clamped and no gaps it is a good fit.

 

The paper filter is replaced frequently so has less time for the frame to break down.  Your BMC should have had a frame that lasted a very long time if the filter is to be cleaned rather than replaced, that was bad.

 

The code for the Paper filter is 1L0129620

so he have these options here:

https://kritosparts.gr/Code/1L0129620

(the weird is that the last two are very expensive and in the description says ''with pro filter", is this for dusty areas? )

https://www.maxxparts.gr/antallaktika/search?s=1L0129620

 

Sorry I have no idea, I only recognise a few of the brand names and I have no idea if any of them are the same filter with different brand name on them or different filters made at the same place to the same or different specification and materials or indeed different filters made at different places.

 

For a difference in filters for "dusty environments"  see here - 

https://catalog.mann-filter.com/EU/eng/oenumbersresult/203990356913032022220426

 

Edited 14 March, 20224 yr by nta16