23 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well I wouldn't say I haven't been on the A68 before, but that was a while ago and as I have lived in Essex all my life, its no surprise that the A68 is not a road that I normally use. But its fair to say that its unreasonable to include the time taken to exit the A68, drive to and from Costco to rejoin the A68 in the time taken to refuel your vehicle, especially as I said that it would have been the sensible thing to do ensure that you had plenty of fuel before setting off. The actual process of sticking the hose in your filler tube and filling the car and paying only took you a few minutes, in reality, the rest of the time was getting there and back.

 

Today I had to drop my son off in the centre of Chelmsford for work, 2.1 miles away and it normally takes 6 minutes, today it took 28 minutes and the reason for that was road works with temp traffic lights brought everything to a crawl and that just shows you why it is important to plan ahead and get the housekeeping bit done in advance before a long trip as you never know what else you are going to encounter over the next 200 miles or so to further delay your progress.

here's the problem with that theory. Filling up before setting off......I don't have a diesel pump at home so I need to add in that time to go and fill up. The journey took 22 minutes longer than if I had taken the EV. It's just as simple as that. The Skoda I could fill up before leaving home, the diesel VW I cannot. 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Well, I'm still not seeing it, if the figures that @lol-lol posted are correct then what the hell is going on here, why are we paying so much more than our neighbours?

 

Only mugs are paying lots for lecky.

 

The big problem is people using lecky at peak times and if you choose to have a single rate tariff you are going to get stung as the supplier assuming the worst and you are using lecky at worst times ie tea time and morning around 8 am.

 

Octopus is happy to sell their customer lecky at about one third price for 5 or 6 hours and only charge about a 5% premium for lecky in the day time 18 or 18 hours.

 

Most of us on GO and Intelligent Go use most of our lecky during the cheap time so our average rate is working out less than 15p a kwh, for some not much over 10p per kwh.

 

Fail to plan then plan to fail.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

Because

 

'Electricity of France'), commonly known as EDF, is a French multinational electric utility company owned by the government of France.

 

 

Our Govt sold everything off and passed Billing on to Shareholders and Business for profits.

 

Go the Third Way, go with Greg from Octopus.

 

Just need to decouple pricing from gas market prices which we should do next year as renewable not only surpass gas usage but dwarf it.

 

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

here's the problem with that theory. Filling up before setting off......I don't have a diesel pump at home so I need to add in that time to go and fill up. The journey took 22 minutes longer than if I had taken the EV. It's just as simple as that. The Skoda I could fill up before leaving home, the diesel VW I cannot. 

So that's it then is it, me saying prepare for the trip and fill up before setting, to you EV types always comes back to it at home. So you wouldn't ever think about doing it a day or so prior to the date, no, to you, it means on the day. I take it that also means you were never a boy scout, or you simply forgot their motto about being prepared?

 

I also said it was bad to allow your fuel tank to be left without much fuel in it, the more fuel in it the better because the tank can get condensation inside and as a result water in the fuel which can cause the engine to cutout and also damage the engine, here an extract that explains this.

 

So your journey time was increased by 22 minutes getting fuel, largely made up of the time it took get to and from the pump which was not actually on your precise route, so decided to call me out when I said that filling an ICE car takes 5 minutes 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499506-the-truth-about-electric-cars/?do=findComment&comment=5886245 In that post you also claimed that it took you 25 minutes to go and refuelled, so which was it? The actual time it took you to put the nozzle into your filler cap, fill the tank, take the nozzle out and replace on the pump, and the go and pay for fuel, get back in your car never took more than 5 minutes, the rest of the time was a result of bad planning. It made your journey longer than it needed to be on the day.

 

I on the other hand always combine shopping refuelling on the same event, so I go in the supermarket and do my shopping, then on the way out, I pop into their forecourt and refuel, so it just adds 5 minutes onto my shopping trip, job done.

 

 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Only mugs are paying lots for lecky.

 

The big problem is people using lecky at peak times and if you choose to have a single rate tariff you are going to get stung as the supplier assuming the worst and you are using lecky at worst times ie tea time and morning around 8 am.

 

Octopus is happy to sell their customer lecky at about one third price for 5 or 6 hours and only charge about a 5% premium for lecky in the day time 18 or 18 hours.

 

Most of us on GO and Intelligent Go use most of our lecky during the cheap time so our average rate is working out less than 15p a kwh, for some not much over 10p per kwh.

 

Fail to plan then plan to fail.

 

 

 

Not everyone can fit in with the restricted times, so you are not solving the problem, only giving me how you get round it, and that is because you have an EV and you use enough energy during the cheap periods to make it viable, not everyone can do that and most people don't have an EV. Why is it that most EV owners can only see things from their privileged positions and don't seem able to imagine things from the perspective of a person who is not in their position?

13 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Not everyone can fit in with the restricted times, so you are not solving the problem, only giving me how you get round it, and that is because you have an EV and you use enough energy during the cheap periods to make it viable, not everyone can do that and most people don't have an EV. Why is it that most EV owners can only see things from their privileged positions and don't seem able to imagine things from the perspective of a person who is not in their position?

 

It is just a commercial reality. Like wanting a flight at a busy time rather than a quiet time. 

Octopus are only offering cheap power at those quite hours as there is a surplus of power and they can sell it to you at a cheap price and still make a profit.

If you want lecky at busy times you have to pay the 25p a kwh there is on the homogenous daily rate or the very slightly loaded rate tge ys dual rate users pay. We are adapting to the variable price that occur the day and are handsomely rewarded for working with the energy supplier.

 

Did not even have to prove I had an EV, or two. Octopus do similar facilities for Heat Pump uses, tri-rate i think on their Cosy rate, share £100 with my brother moving him to that tariff. Happy days, nights and monthly bills.

 

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Look again at the post you quoted was to which was replying, it is a post you "liked", presumably read.  (may be I'm placing too much faith in your memory) 

 

Please step away from the magic mushrooms, you're making things up here that are not true.  The context is important to understand. I will post links here now to my original post which @domhnall appears to have got the wrong end of the stick by thinking that that diesels had been claimed as outselling EVs, which clearly is not happening and he posts about it and then I post again saying I was not saying what he thought, but repeating the radio news which said that diesels sales up 17% this year compared to only 3% last year. There was never anything mentioned about Petrol or EVs. @domhnall made a mistake and you just couldn't resist having a go at me.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499506-the-truth-about-electric-cars/?do=findComment&comment=5887192

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499506-the-truth-about-electric-cars/?do=findComment&comment=5887347

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499506-the-truth-about-electric-cars/?do=findComment&comment=5887381

 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

It is just a commercial reality. Like wanting a flight at a busy time rather than a quiet time. 

Octopus are only offering cheap power at those quite hours as there is a surplus of power and they can sell it to you at a cheap price and still make a profit.

If you want lecky at busy times you have to pay the 25p a kwh there is on the homogenous daily rate or the very slightly loaded rate tge ys dual rate users pay. We are adapting to the variable price that occur the day and are handsomely rewarded for working with the energy supplier.

 

Did not even have to prove I had an EV, or two. Octopus do similar facilities for Heat Pump uses, tri-rate i think on their Cosy rate, share £100 with my brother moving him to that tariff. Happy days, nights and monthly bills.

 

Oh, OK but does not explain the figures in the video that I posted by Phill Moorhouse. 

56 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Oh, OK but does not explain the figures in the video that I posted by Phill Moorhouse. 

 

I suspect their are several factors that are not presented in the video.

 

I do generally agree with his main point that the UK could have done more to get offshore wind farm turbines but then technology has been accelerating quickly with these much larger turbines with lower per unit generated costs and it's great there is huge numbers of new turbines coming online.

 

Just comparing headline unit rates m, if that is what I suspect has been done, is not really a fair comparison. As I said many uk users do not pay the single unit price but are on multilayered tariffs. Also was the hundreds of pounds credited considered in what actually paid.

 

I think I did not pay more than £2k in any year and I work from home mostly, home is a 4 bedroom detached house and I am charging an EV doing thousands of miles a year using that home electricity. Thankfully the Con party had a bit of heart to do tge subsidies.

 

Government could have done some things differently.  Reduce the VAT a few percent.  The worst effect of the pricing doubling or so was on those on low money. As with the Winter Fuel Allowance the energy credit was something I did not need and I money on energy saving items such a foldable solar panels and home batteries which give me residence and work with my dual rate tariff.

 

UK is increasingly becoming more resilient as more North Sea wind farms, like the new stages of Dogger Bank come online so hopefully 25p per kwh is the worst we will see in the future. 

 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

Can we stop repeating time after time the under 3 pence a mile to run an EV or less with home or work charging, free charging, having your employer paying for the charging, getting 20% VAT back from public charging etc. 

 

That might be half of Electric Cars in the UK, it might be more or less than half bit no way does it apply to everyone. 

over 50 pence a kWh public charging is getting expensive, and then up to 89 pence is just ridiculous. 

The Public Charging suppliers need to cover costs, get back from their investments and make profits clearly.  The 20% VAT on public charging is crazy and especially while Off Peak home charging can be 6.9 pence a kWh including 5% VAT. 

 

New Offshore Wind generating electricity is happening, it is not all connected to the National Grid. 

 

It will be years before lots of the Wind Farms are connected to the grid.

Years before the new Transmission comes from Orkney & Sheland to the Scottish Mainland then down the East coast & to England.

Or right down Scotland from Kintore to England.

 

While loads of excess electricity can be produced in Scotland the population can not even benefit from these days and nights of plenty.

THEY, prefer to pay the Owners of the Wind Farms to not generate electricity.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2ge5rxjzxo

 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Government could have done some things differently.  Reduce the VAT a few percent.  The worst effect of the pricing doubling or so was on those on low money. As with the Winter Fuel Allowance the energy credit was something I did not need and I money on energy saving items such a foldable solar panels and home batteries which give me residence and work with my dual rate tariff.

 

UK is increasingly becoming more resilient as more North Sea wind farms, like the new stages of Dogger Bank come online so hopefully 25p per kwh is the worst we will see in the future. 

You're right about the VAT angle, for a start, and that was one of the many lies we all sold by politicians in the great should we or shouldn't we referendum back in 2016. We were told that if we did, then they would be able to cut or remove VAT on energy, cheaper food, shoes, cloths etc, in the end we did but we never got any of those promises, in fact, we got the complete opposite, (we have been promised and told so much over the years, only to discover later on they had it all wrong, or they never delivered what they promised), so often we are sold down the river by them. Public trust in them is at a all time low and they need to build public trust again.

 

We are now subsidising  energy prices etc for other countries as all of our utilities are no longer owned by British companies or people and great amounts of wealth is leaving our shores, when it used to be captive here and used here for the countries benefit.
 

There is no reason to ever expect to see prices fall to the 25p per kwh that hope will be realised by Dogger Bank being switching on to the grid, we no longer have control of our natural resources and the regulators are powerless puppets.

 

The only way we can get our energy prices to parity with our once closest neighbours is to take back full control by bringing them back into state ownership, just increasing the amount of green energy production is not going to do it, it will only generate more profits for the foreign owners and shareholders alike. 

 

 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Real World rather than Dream World.

3 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Real World rather than Dream World.

 

It makes perfect sense to import electricity, even at 16p per kwh, at peak times, we have done this with France for years and now we have interconnectors with Denmark and Norway which gives the UK the option of using relatively cheap imported power rather than firing up a hydrocarbon station for a couple of hours and paying way more than 16p a kwh.

 

UK acts a bridge to Ireland, South and North. Wonder if we charge a handling charge.

 

 

3 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

It makes perfect sense to import electricity, even at 16p per kwh, at peak times, we have done this with France for years and now we have interconnectors with Denmark and Norway which gives the UK the option of using relatively cheap imported power rather than firing up a hydrocarbon station for a couple of hours and paying way more than 16p a kwh.

 

UK acts a bridge to Ireland, South and North. Wonder if we charge a handling charge.

 

 

The point I think @Ootohere was making is that they have the surplus energy and that we are relying on them having it rather than creating our own. If we generate our own, than we should be able to generate it at far lower price than what we can buy it at and thus have the means to lower our energy bills. The interconnectors should really be there more for emergency use when we or they have problems that we can then help each out from time to time.

@lol-lolIs it @ 16 pence though?

The reason not to import from Scotland is because the contracts exist with overseas.

 

*** You / Me and Patrick McGee are paying for that HydroCarbon power to be fired up, as we did with Coal, and we do with Diesel Farms because of the fear in parts of England, and the Hydro & Wind Generation.***

 

Long story short is England has no Energy Security.

The French Nuclear being generated in Scotland at the 1 nuclear plant left will stop in a year or 2. 

 

England really does pretty good with overnight cheap tariffs for a country importing electric and a decade away from the chance of generating enough. 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

The point I think @Ootohere was making is that they have the surplus energy and that we are relying on them having it rather than creating our own. If we generate our own, than we should be able to generate it at far lower price than what we can buy it at and thus have the means to lower our energy bills. The interconnectors should really be there more for emergency use when we or they have problems that we can then help each out from time to time.

 

This is why the sub sea connection is being built from Scotland to England.

 

Norway's hydropower is probably impossible to compete with, Denmark's wind power we should compete with. I hope the 30 GWh renewable gets built soon. The Dinorwig electric mountain is probably the most impressive peice of engineering j have seen in my life and that is 9 Gwh from memory.

 

@lol-lol we have been through this for years now.

Scotland and Norway have had power sharing plans for decades.

 

20 years late with the Sub Sea down the East coast and to Drax.

 

The Sub Sea Connections were to export extra capacity from Norway was called for for decades. 

But it was not one way, export from Scotland to Norway to go south in Continental Europe since England somehow preferred getting energy from there.

 

Orkney and Shetland wind generated to Norway, far closer than to England.

 

The Hydro projects were just spoiled by Westminster.

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Memories. 

2011.    David Cameron / Call me Dave.

More bothered about the UK splitting and Scotland having energy security and the link with Norway.

 

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

I think the points raised by Phill Moorhouse is that the last few ruling parties have been greenwashing the subject and doing their best to convince everyone that they were addressing the issues but in fact were doing nothing other than window dressing as it was earlier governments formed by their own party that created the situation where we own diddly squat and thus are no longer in control of our own destiny, we handed that over the overseas investors. 

 

Or to coin a phrase, so much for taking back control 😆

Edited 6 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

18 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

It is just a commercial reality. Like wanting a flight at a busy time rather than a quiet time. 

Octopus are only offering cheap power at those quite hours as there is a surplus of power and they can sell it to you at a cheap price and still make a profit.

If you want lecky at busy times you have to pay the 25p a kwh there is on the homogenous daily rate or the very slightly loaded rate tge ys dual rate users pay. We are adapting to the variable price that occur the day and are handsomely rewarded for working with the energy supplier.

 

Did not even have to prove I had an EV, or two. Octopus do similar facilities for Heat Pump uses, tri-rate i think on their Cosy rate, share £100 with my brother moving him to that tariff. Happy days, nights and monthly bills.

 

If you have an ev and a heat pump with home battery then IOG is still best

19 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

So that's it then is it, me saying prepare for the trip and fill up before setting, to you EV types always comes back to it at home. So you wouldn't ever think about doing it a day or so prior to the date, no, to you, it means on the day. I take it that also means you were never a boy scout, or you simply forgot their motto about being prepared?

 

I also said it was bad to allow your fuel tank to be left without much fuel in it, the more fuel in it the better because the tank can get condensation inside and as a result water in the fuel which can cause the engine to cutout and also damage the engine, here an extract that explains this.

 

So your journey time was increased by 22 minutes getting fuel, largely made up of the time it took get to and from the pump which was not actually on your precise route, so decided to call me out when I said that filling an ICE car takes 5 minutes 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499506-the-truth-about-electric-cars/?do=findComment&comment=5886245 In that post you also claimed that it took you 25 minutes to go and refuelled, so which was it? The actual time it took you to put the nozzle into your filler cap, fill the tank, take the nozzle out and replace on the pump, and the go and pay for fuel, get back in your car never took more than 5 minutes, the rest of the time was a result of bad planning. It made your journey longer than it needed to be on the day.

 

I on the other hand always combine shopping refuelling on the same event, so I go in the supermarket and do my shopping, then on the way out, I pop into their forecourt and refuel, so it just adds 5 minutes onto my shopping trip, job done.

 

 

You're quite the angry man aren't you? Do you just like arguing? Filling up a fossil car takes time whatever way you cut it. I own both and the difference is that with my ev I plug in and it takes a couple of seconds. I can then do whatever else it is I need to do. When I fill up my diesel I need to stand there holding on to the lever. 

 

I had to do it yesterday with my son's  fabia too. We queued for 10 minutes to get filled up. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, domhnall said:

If you have an ev and a heat pump with home battery then IOG is still best

 

IOG ?

 

Brother on Octopus Cozy tariff.

Rented house so no option for home batteries.

 

17 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Please step away from the magic mushrooms, you're making things up here that are not true.  The context is important to understand. I will post links here now to my original post which @domhnall appears to have got the wrong end of the stick by thinking that that diesels had been claimed as outselling EVs, which clearly is not happening and he posts about it and then I post again saying I was not saying what he thought, but repeating the radio news which said that diesels sales up 17% this year compared to only 3% last year. There was never anything mentioned about Petrol or EVs. @domhnall made a mistake and you just couldn't resist having a go at me.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499506-the-truth-about-electric-cars/?do=findComment&comment=5887347

 

You are the one on mushrooms. Look at Dom's comment again.

 

Was Dom replying to you?

 

 

Please step away from the keyboard whilst you are on your magic mushrooms. Not every post need a reply from you.

 

 

9 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

IOG ?

Intelligent Octopus Go.

7 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

 

Intelligent Octopus Go.

 

Ahh, I am just on Octopus Go, OG.

 

I note my smart meter does not report the full 5 hours ie still stuck on the 4 hours of cheap lecky.

 

Still getting use to new EV ie Scenic charging as the car manages the process more as you tell it when you want the car ready and to what level you want the car charged ie80, 85, 90, 95 oil 100% and it also get the car up to pre-programmed temp to save power used during the journey and therefore extend range. Just got that seg at 16c.

I think ICE Rolls Royce have this. Amazing that most ICE car drivers have to suffer for minutes to get there cars up to a pleasant temperature where most EVs seem to have pre conditioning for cabin temp, included the heated seats, before you set off. No need for an ice scrapper.

 

 

 

Edited 7 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol