There are supermarkets putting tills back in as the Self Service schemes have been failures theft wise and customer satisfaction wise.

But more and more Self Pay and Pack now have AI identifying the item as you move it from the trolley or basket before you scan it.

Also it has your picture. So Facial recognition will be simple to implement.

 

As can happen at Fuel Pumps or EV Chargers, car arrives, charger knows the car type, charging type, Reg Number or even the VIN, Registered Keeper, bill whoever.

 

Pay per Mile.     

But then the UK still has no compulsory ID, easy swap Reg Plates, and the ANPR system and IT, Receptions for Communications, Phones, WIFI, Radio that can be crap. 

Then crap security of data...

24 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Things are changing.  Time takes time.  

 

Filling up vehicles was not as simple as being made out just 30 years ago in many areas / countries of the UK.

There used to be garages / filling stations with OPENING HOURS.  There were places without SUPERMARKET FILLING STATIONS.

Supermarket Filling stations without Out of Hours pay at pumps, there still are.

 

There were the Likes of Green Shield Stamps back decades ago.

I used Tesco Rewards, i used ASDA CRedit Card to get 2 pence a litre off, and used ASDA,s with LPG where i bought twice as many litres of LPG compared to if running petrol and ther LPG was 1/2 the price, 50 pence a litre compared to £1 for unleaded & then the 2 pence a litre off.

 

LPG was widely available in Scotland and cheaper than south of the border in England. 

 

My dad used to pay a Monthly amount and he ran his Diesels which he had for going caravanning using Bunkered Fuel. 

 

The UK is not all about Cities, or England and what is common there, but there is rural mainland England as Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland and also Islands. 

None of the above add or detract from the act of simply refuelling a car with petrol or diesel, other than maybe the pumps are faster these days as diesel doesn't seem to foam like it used to, so they can pump it faster. I remember refuelling my lorry up with 100 gallons would take a while and also buses did, but putting 13 gallons into my car is just a couple of minutes and then maybe another minute or two to scan my debit card at the cashier's booth.

 

No but it is how it is right now, and can be in the future. 

Like all the horror stories of the End in nigh.  We are all going to burn to death because of EV,s.

 

You are in the wrong section for going on about ICE Vehicles and how the work and you fuel them & how quick it is.

(and how the Cashier tells those that want AdBlue from the Goods vehicle pump they can not have it, buy the containers. .

 

We never all came up the Clyde in a banana boat.  Anyone that has bothered to drive and charge an EV has a clue what it is like, but then there is location location location.

39 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There are supermarkets putting tills back in as the Self Service schemes have been failures theft wise and customer satisfaction wise.

This surely will apply to EVs as well

 

I'm not too sure about the theft angle. All the pumps down here, certainly in my neck of the woods (see no reason why others should be different) require you to insert your debit or credit card into the pump first and then they precharge your card with £99 (I think that figure is correct) and if your card issuer does not authorise it, then the pump refuses to dispense any fuel. If your car takes less than the precharge amount, the final price is calculated and adjustments are made, and the payment is taken from your account. Equally, if the precharged amount is not enough to allow you to completely refill your tank, the pump will slow down as it approaches the figure and switch off when it reaches it. You then have to go through the process again to top the tank up to full again.

 

So how does the theft come into the equation?

Edited 1 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

I was talking about Supermarket tills.   Not fuel pumps.    You quoted me. did you not think.  TILLS.

 

Then for fuel £99  precharge went long ago up here for fuel at the pumps..  

 

There was £45 pre charge pending at an Osprey EV charger. 

 

@Graham Butcher  You worry too much about things that you need not worry about as far as charging an EV, or running one. 

Edited 1 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

7 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

I was talking about Supermarket tills.   Not fuel pumps.    You quoted me. did you not think.  TILLS.

 

Then for fuel £99  precharge went long ago up here for fuel at the pumps..  

 

There was £45 pre charge pending at an Osprey EV charger. 

 

@Graham Butcher  You worry too much about things that you need not worry about as far as charging an EV, or running one. 

Nope, these last posts was brought about by comments made by @domhnall,.

Edited 1 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

I am lost now, as you seem to be.

 

You really need to understand that regardless of the horror stories and those that see all the problems second hand or compile all the issues and negative things there are many that have no issues. 

Plenty with EV,s that have issues will tell others, and if they have had enough of them will drive something else as their own personal transport. 

4 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

I am lost now, as you seem to be.

 

Go back and find the post, that you actually gave a thumbs up to and maybe read his comments, they make zero sense.

I know what @domhnall posted.   But WTF you keep on about just gets lost along with the various guff. 

31 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

You really need to understand that regardless of the horror stories and those that see all the problems second hand or compile all the issues and negative things there are many that have no issues. 

No truer word had been said.

 

When one seeks out problems, especially on platforms with algorithm to keep feeding you the same, one find problems.

But in actual fact there is very little problem in the real world for vast majority of people.

 

 

actually that's maybe an anti theft measure the supermarkets could implement.

Make you preauthorise on a card as you enter the store and don't let you enter until you do?

Meanwhile self service tills have their place, especially if you're only grabbing a few items, don't  use them for the full weekly shop

 

If Iran has its way the price of oil will become almost unaffordable.

 

UK government should have an excise variable rate so the excise and VAT is about a £1 a litre and world shock in supply from the Persian Gulf does not create a hike in diesel and petrol and therefore inflation too. Electricity prices should be as affected.

 

'Don;t worry be happy'.   Stay calm and carry on.

There could be a pandemic again, and a Bulk carrier blocking some shipping route like the Suez canal, a volcano might erupt cause chaos in the skies and the Internet Super Highway might be broken. 

Then the UK could suffer a winter like 1962-63. 

 

PS, 

many people do only deal in cash and cash is what they have when shopping, or fuelling up etc.

They do not use Pay at Pumps, just as they will not be using EV chargers. 

Edited 1 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

13 hours ago, Ootohere said:

'Don;t worry be happy'.   Stay calm and carry on.

There could be a pandemic again, and a Bulk carrier blocking some shipping route like the Suez canal, a volcano might erupt cause chaos in the skies and the Internet Super Highway might be broken. 

Then the UK could suffer a winter like 1962-63. 

 

PS, 

many people do only deal in cash and cash is what they have when shopping, or fuelling up etc.   They do not use Pay at Pumps, just as they will not be using EV chargers. 

 

Oddly the big story of the US Port strikes hardly getting any coverage.   

 

Suez revenues are pretty health despite the Yemen troubles.  https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/shipping-finance/suez-canal-reports-10-year-revenues-at-50-9bn

 

Higher oil prices will affect all modes of transport, except electric trucks I expect, which is becoming more of a thing.

 

Soone cash is outlawed we will see more tax collected I suspect and be able to enjoy better services.

Cash is not going to be outlawed, and when there is power cuts tills do not open, and scanners and card readers do not operate, just as fuel pumps and electric chargers might not.

Unless there is back up power, or battery storage for that establishment / area.

 

Then traffic lights do not work.

 

Funnily Average Speed Cameras can still operate like the Portable ones that have been recently set up in the area of the North Coast 500 roads where there was no need to connect to the mains electric.

 

 

Edited 2 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Higher oil prices will affect all modes of transport, except electric trucks I expect, which is becoming more of a thing.

You would hope so, but I suspect that it would also rise significantly as all forms of energy on the open market are linked to the equivalent energy value of oil is it not?

Linked to the price of gas even.

Everything including gas is linked to the price of oil. 

 

Israel produce their electricity with coal and oil, maybe solar and import petroleum.

Emissions really not their biggest concern, and neither is the price of butter or coal, oil, or gas, or weapons of death and mass destruction, the USA and the UK are the gift that keeps on giving. 

Edited 2 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Cash is not going to be outlawed, and when there is power cuts tills do not open, and scanners and card readers do not operate, just as fuel pumps and electric chargers might not.

Unless there is back up power, or battery storage for that establishment / area.

 

Then traffic lights do not work.

 

Funnily Average Speed Cameras can still operate like the Portable ones that have been set up in the area of the North Coast 500 roads where there was no need to connect to the mains electric.

Haha, with no means of paying any fines if cash is banned, then those cameras are worthless when there is no power to feed all the other equipment to take digital money.

17 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

You would hope so, but I suspect that it would also rise significantly as all forms of energy on the open market are linked to the equivalent energy value of oil is it not?

 

There is no a huge lobby going on to decouple lecky prices from gas as gas become less relevant as a factor in the supply of energy when once it was half or so and so become the benchmark energy form everything else was pegged to.

 

Not sure what it will be in the future.  Obviously wind is just growing and growing and is less seasonal than solar.

 

Until solar cracks the 25% efficiency level.  Be interesting to see how thede micro nuclear power stations evolve. Still would not want to live near one. 

 

Hinkley Point is such a slow project to see coming on line, as would be Sizewell, not sure it will be needed when they do come on line a therefore be one of the world's biggest white elephants. 

 

22 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

There is no a huge lobby going on to decouple lecky prices from gas as gas become less relevant as a factor in the supply of energy when once it was half or so and so become the benchmark energy form everything else was pegged to.

 

Not sure what it will be in the future.  Obviously wind is just growing and growing and is less seasonal than solar.

 

Until solar cracks the 25% efficiency level.  Be interesting to see how thede micro nuclear power stations evolve. Still would not want to live near one. 

 

Hinkley Point is such a slow project to see coming on line, as would be Sizewell, not sure it will be needed when they do come on line a therefore be one of the world's biggest white elephants. 

 

As long as lecky is owned by private companies, regardless of their nationality, prices will remain high. It needs to be owned by the public so there is less demand for it to make so much profit, as long as it makes enough to cover operating costs and a modicum of profit to help pay for its replacement/renewal in a few years time should be all that is required. 

There's different levels of the electricity energy chain, from generation to distribution and supplying end user. It's not as simple as making the whole lot public owned will solve all problems.

 

I personally think supplying side should stay private. There is already a huge amount of regulation to ensure no price gauging, such as price cap. There is still a lot of room for innovation here, for example the Kraken platform by Octopus Energy and more varied time-of-use tariff.

 

Distribution should definitely be public owned, this is part of key infrastructure of this country.

 

Generation... depends, nuclear plants should be public owned to ensure there is a base level of generation. Renewables should be privately owned to drive investment, parts sourcing competitiveness, building speed and innovation.

Fossil fuel plants can be private but must also have storage facilities to use that grid connection to enable more renewables. As time goes on, it would be more and more financially beneficial to invest in battery storage than burn gas.

 

Finally, as mentioned, there is a strong need to decouple wholesale price from gas price. Current system makes wholesale price equal to most expensive source, which is gas plants. Pricing should be proportional, as starter for 10, 30% gas when wind is blowing should mean gas price only pull up wholesale price by no more than 30%.

@wyx087

The Price Cap is ridiculous.   

The many pay loads for energy capped at some random figure that OFGEM sets, while you me and Patrick McGee can get cheapo electric to balance the grid.

OFGEM are a joke, but not a funny one. 

A Regulator that does not regulate. Not fit for purpose.

 

The National Grid.  The not fit for purpose National Grid not Nationally Owned. 

Now we have GB Energy coming.    To finance who knows what with Public Money that will result in no cheaper energy for the General Public. 

...............

The crazy crazy thing is the payments to Wind Farms / Turbine owners to stop generating energy because the National Grid does not require it and locals to wind farms object to Battery Storage that could have that electricity from local transmissions. 

 

Public facilities like Leisure Centres, Swimming Pools, Libraries closed because of the cost of energy while there are the likes of Baron Nicol Stephen and business partners, Sam Cams family & many others making even more money not generating electricity. 

Edited 2 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

On 30/09/2024 at 23:50, Graham Butcher said:

I used to be able to drive for longer than that without needing a break when towing. Are you a nervous driver in which case towing a caravan is not something I would recommend. A HGV driver of an articulated lorry can drive for 4 and a half hours before they must stop and take a 45 minute break, their rig is way bigger than a car and caravan unit.

 

They are not going to cover much ground if they need to take a break every 2 and a half hours are they?

 

My Rover had a 45litre fuel tank and drank like a fish, those 1960s cars were not very efficient, whereas my 2 litre Superb diesel (66 litre tank)  is and with just normal local trips with a couple of 30 mile runs a week will return around 550 to 600 miles and 800+ on decent long motorway trips. I no longer have the caravan and have never towed with the Superb.

 

that's the sort of hours the Army operate to for safety reasons, a break every two hours in order to void fatigue. Soldiers aren't generally nervous drivers 🙂

On 01/10/2024 at 09:44, Dieselgate said:

I timed myself last week from the moment the wheels stopped moving to when they were turning again and it was 3 minutes 45 seconds for just over 60 litres.

I generally work it in so I fill up when I'm actually passing a station but when I don't it's never more than 2-3 minutes diversion at worst.

And using a fuel card I can fill up at any motorway services when out and about and pay a sensible price instead of the rip off standard prices meaning it's not necessary to divert far off route when on a longer journey either.

On my regular trips to Germany I never stop more than once on the way (or way back) and it's always less than 10 minutes to fill up and go to the toilet which is all that's needed - around 350 miles from Calais. It generally takes us between 4 and 4 1/2 hours depending on traffic and how hard I feel like pushing it.

A friend of mine in his Tesla did the exact same journey and took 8 hours. Anecdotally quite frequently when I've been with him at public chargers he often seems to have issues with getting anywhere near the advertised charging speed from the charger (30kw, 60kw from a 150kw seems to be fairly commonplace).

my point was that it was massively inconvenient that my diesel VW didn't fill itself up while I was asleep in the same way that my Skoda does. So whereas my Skoda took about 5 seconds to lug in, the VW needed a diversion off the main road and then to a filling station and then I had to get back to the route I was on. That took over 20 minutes. As for your friend's Tesla experience I am sure that he knows that if the car preheats the battery and he charges only when down to around 15% then he will see the fastest charge rates. Just like filling up a jug of water, when it's emoty you fill up really fast but as it gets fuller you tend to slow up.

3 hours ago, domhnall said:

my point was that it was massively inconvenient that my diesel VW didn't fill itself up while I was asleep in the same way that my Skoda does. So whereas my Skoda took about 5 seconds to lug in, the VW needed a diversion off the main road and then to a filling station and then I had to get back to the route I was on. That took over 20 minutes. As for your friend's Tesla experience I am sure that he knows that if the car preheats the battery and he charges only when down to around 15% then he will see the fastest charge rates. Just like filling up a jug of water, when it's emoty you fill up really fast but as it gets fuller you tend to slow up.

The point that I was making is why did you need to divert off your route, unlike charging hubs, filling stations are plentiful and so it wouldn't be too long before you came across one on the road you were on, thus no time lost fighting through traffic etc. I never leave my tank empty, I always top again when I get down to about 100 miles of range in the tank to ensure that I don't suck up any debris from the bottom of the tank and also to ensure that if I do get called on to drive a reasonable distance in an emergency, that have enough fuel to get me on the way with a good safety net to avoid any dramas. It is good practise to get into the habit, just as that with an EV and home charging, which you do, you get the cable out and plug the car each night so that hopefully by the time you need the car in the morning, it is fully charged again.

 

Very often, I will refuel when I go to Tesco for shopping, so pop into their forecourt as I leave their shop, so no time is wasted doing a special trip to save a few coppers, and with a range of normally around the 650 to 700 miles, this is done once a fortnight, so even more time saved.

Edited 2 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher