@lol-lol  Or someone will explain about storing Lithium Batteries or others in anything not at Full or Empty.

Ot just do a search.

 

I have e-Bikes or the batteries out of them that have been sitting for a couple of years just below 100%.

 

I charged the car last night for 7 hours at cheap tariff and turned off at 7 am and at 90%. 

Tonight i will charge to 100%. 

Usually i charge any car to 100% or to 98% if up a hill.   But then i always park up cars with a full tank of fuel and always have. 

53 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

I unplugged the cable at 68%

 

This morning the pre cabin heater had been on for a departure time of 6:35, i believe it comes on half an hour earlier.

 

When i got in the car the GOM reported 70% charged.

This is called "state of charge drift", google it. As multiple variables change, the BMS re-evaluate its SoC estimate.

 

Got to remember SoC you see is an estimate of energy in the battery. It is much better than miles guess-o-meter because there's less variables involved but it's still an estimate.

The only time SoC is accurate is when you charge the car to 100%. The charging logic monitors cell voltages and stop charging at its defined cell voltage limit. At this point the SoC reporting 100% can be considered accurate. Doing is also calibrates the BMS logic so that it knows the battery is full.

 

When this happens, It is worth charging to 100% if you know you'll use the car soon. This recalibrates the BMS logic then you shouldn't see SoC drift until it gets itself confused again.

 

There is nothing to worry if you want to leave the car at 100% charged. It wouldn't magically gain 2% and there is no increased chance of self-combust. The reason people say don't leave Li-on battery at 100% for too long is to prevent accelerated degradation. Cells chemically degrade quicker when being under more stress. Li-on cells are least stressed at 3.7v, which is typically around 50% for most Li-on chemistry.

 

All of above is why LFP tend to have more cycle life, because it has a very flat cell voltage. This means the cells are not under stress most of its life. But LFP also require regularly charging to 100% to re-calibrate SoC logic because BMS uses coulomb counting during that flat voltage part, easy to loose accuracy.

 

 

 

SpeakEV folks will be able to give much better explanation than me, probably also find areas I'm not explained correctly. I suggest you pose these sort of technical questions there.

 

 

Edited 31 January, 20251 yr by wyx087

7 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@lol-lol  Or someone will explain about storing Lithium Batteries or others in anything not at Full or Empty.

Ot just do a search.

 

I have e-Bikes or the batteries out of them that have been sitting for a couple of years just below 100%.

 

I charged the car last night for 7 hours at cheap tariff and turned off at 7 am and at 90%. 

Tonight i will charge to 100%. 

Usually i charge any car to 100% or to 98% if up a hill.   But then i always park up cars with a full tank of fuel and always have. 

 

Lithium (Nickel Manganese Cobalt the common type), we are warned not to charge and leave unused at over 80 %.

 

Even my new Samsung S24 phone now does that ie only charges to 80%.

 

As I understand it when pure lithium batteries are very full they do not like standing around and experiencing decreases and increases in temperature. Same for phones and all our other straight forward Lithium, NMC, batteries. Some good youtube videos on the actual chemistry taking place. Blowing up is rare but longevity much harmed by wacking them up to 100% frequently and not letting the discgarge down. We are told that neither leaving the highly or very low charged is good for longevity.

 

Lithium Iron Phosphate, so also principally a lithium battery is quite different as it does not mind going to 100% oft but it has lower energy density but also cost. These packs have been pierced with stakes and still to to short circuit so seem much safer than lithium NMC batteries. Sodium batteries are starting to come through as also cheap and work better in cold conditions. Mixing NMC, LFP and Na is thought to be a good solution to cost and temperature performance going forward, maybe more ultra capacitors too like we have in the regen systems.

 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Even my new Samsung S24 phone now does that ie only charges to 80%.

My last 3 iPhones when charging overnight charge to 80% initially and only finish charging to 100% in the last hour or so before I've set as my wakeup time.

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

But then i always park up cars with a full tank of fuel and always have. 

Always a good idea to do that especially if they are not going to be used for a while, reduces the chance of condensation forming on the walls of the tank and contaminating the fuel.

3 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

The 30 min is a guesstimate i don't see it turn on, i am in the house. It's set as a departure time.

 

No idea what is involved but my windows are clear and the car is warm inside

Its actually quite intelligent and will heat the cabin based on outside temperature. The other day it was 8C and the car pre-warmed for 17 minutes to have the cabin at 21C. If the temp is below 11C then heated seats and wheel are turned on if set to come on during pre-heating.

@Luckypants   Do you not have the options to set the stuff like Heated Seats / Heated Steering wheel to come on at your chosen Ambient temp as the MINI Countryman can?

I had to chose driving one as 'A guest' because the regular driver had them come on even if it was well above freezing temperatures.

(It might have been 11*oC as it was shirt sleeve weather.)

Edited 31 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

 

On 31/01/2025 at 16:29, Ootohere said:

@Luckypants   Do you not have the options to set the stuff like Heated Seats / Heated Steering wheel to come on at your chosen Ambient temp as the MINI Countryman can?

I had to chose driving one as 'A guest' because the regular driver had them come on even if it was well above freezing temperatures.

(It might have been 11*oC as it was shirt sleeve weather.)

Nope. I can chose them to come on at whatever temp VW set or not at all, so in summer that option is off. The behaviour has changed with the latest software update (V3.7 for my car) but I haven't worked it out yet. The seats seem to come on automatically less than before. (much to SWMBO's disgust)

EDIT: This is how it works on V3.x software cars which I believe Stonekeeper's is. The 2024-on cars running V4.x or V5.x software may operate differently.

Edited 3 February, 20251 yr by Luckypants

 

Anybody think that UK government would just start charging the £195 EV VED from 1st of April 2025 and not go by the renewal date ?

 

Is that a possibility ?

 

 

26 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Anybody think that UK government would just start charging the £195 EV VED from 1st of April 2025 and not go by the renewal date ?

 

Is that a possibility ?

Possible but unlikely IMHO, retrospective orders/rules/laws are very rare in the UK.

3 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Possible but unlikely IMHO, retrospective orders/rules/laws are very rare in the UK.

But this change is retrospective. My VED on the ID.4 was set at £0 when registered and has been for the past three years, from April 2025 I'll now be charged £195. Our little Citigo VED was £20 from the get go and has not been changed when new VED rates come in. Which makes this VED change retrospective in that it affects vehicles built before the change was introduced.

As to @lol-lol's question, I believe it will be from the renewal date, as we purchase 6 or 12 months VED in advance. I'll let you know when I renew at the end of the month!

3 hours ago, Luckypants said:

But this change is retrospective. My VED on the ID.4 was set at £0 when registered and has been for the past three years, from April 2025 I'll now be charged £195. Our little Citigo VED was £20 from the get go and has not been changed when new VED rates come in. Which makes this VED change retrospective in that it affects vehicles built before the change was introduced.

As to @lol-lol's question, I believe it will be from the renewal date, as we purchase 6 or 12 months VED in advance. I'll let you know when I renew at the end of the month!

 

Why not go into the retax system and relax now to move it until Feb 2026 when you start paying ?

 

I was in two minds, pay what is fair dues or do what seems to be allowable and shift the tax month.

 

Dirty diesels registered before April 2017 will still pay almost nothing.

 

Fair ?

 

Edited 6 February, 20251 yr by lol-lol

I am relaxed, my car gets taxed at the end of February for 12 months. I expect it will £0 and I'll pay the new rate in Feb 2026. But I'll let you know if it is pro-rata. The timing is purely based on when the car was registered.

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

Which makes this VED change retrospective in that it affects vehicles built before the change was introduced.

You can apply that argument to all VED changes, the VED on my ICE Octavia is way more than when it was first registered in 2016. The VED on my previous Audi more than doubled in the 10 years I owned it!

 

Perhaps I chose the wrong word when I said "retrospective", what I meant was that it doesn't cancel the existing VED registration (for £0) for EVs on 1st April 2025, and like all VED changes it applies from the time of next VED renewal.

Edited 6 February, 20251 yr by PetrolDave

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

You can apply that argument to all VED changes, the VED on my ICE Octavia is way more than when it was first registered in 2016. The VED on my previous Audi more than doubled in the 10 years I owned it!

When those vehicles were purchased, it is understood VED will be increased over the years. The payment structure and expectation of price adjustment were clearly communicated at time of purchase. Just as VED price adjustments from £195 to £200 in future years.

 

But for EV's that were purchased before they announced April 2025 introduction of VED, there was no such price structure to suggest that EV will pay VED.

 

Even the wording is clear from government website, they are "introducing VED to zero emission cars":

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025

It is not removal of exemption. compare to the wording for Expensive Car Supplement, where it is removal of exemption.

 

Thus I think it is fair to say this is a VED change retrospectively in relation to vehicles that were purchased before the announcement.

Schedule 2 of VERA 1994 will be amended so that the electrically propelled vehicle exemption no longer applies to cars, vans and motorcycles. The exemption for cars with low CO2 emissions will also be omitted. Schedule 1 will be amended so that electric cars, vans and motorcycles are liable to pay the same rates as petrol and diesel vehicles. Schedule 1 will also be amended so that new electric cars will be eligible to pay the higher rate of duty, commonly known as the expensive car supplement.

The Graduated Vehicle Excise Duty (Prescribed Types of Fuel) Regulations 2001 will also be revoked so that hybrid and alternative fuel vehicles are no longer eligible for the reduced rate.

 

 

 

Then this was probably written by a government official with and EV

 

Edited 6 February, 20251 yr by Stonekeeper

A young fiend in Austrias work vehicle.  

2 hours ago, Luckypants said:

But I'll let you know if it is pro-rata.

The V11ZW VED reminder turned up in the post this morning. Its £0 until next renewal.

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

The V11ZW VED reminder turned up in the post this morning. Its £0 until next renewal.

 

It costs the government to send this out, got to be a fiver or so costs to do so, crazy from last government.

 

Happy to pay a few quid per month for my EVs to use the roads and me checked for MOT etc.

 

Edited 6 February, 20251 yr by lol-lol

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

But for EV's that were purchased before they announced April 2025 introduction of VED, there was no such price structure to suggest that EV will pay VED.

It was pretty obvious that with the (forced) move to EVs then any Government would have to make good the shortfall in revenue by, at some date, making EVs pay VED - so to not expect to have to pay VED on an EV is very naive.

The DVLA which is an 'Executive Agency' of the DfT &  costs us plenty anyway and Bonus Payments for performance to heid yins, even if the DVLA performance is rubbish. 

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

It was pretty obvious that with the (forced) move to EVs then any Government would have to make good the shortfall in revenue by, at some date, making EVs pay VED - so to not expect to have to pay VED on an EV is very naive.

Obvious/naive or not, that was not the point of discussion.

 

The fact is this VED change is retrospective to cars that were brand new between 2017 to late 2022, where VED was set at £0 and there was no communication that it will change in the future. It was not an exemption that was removed, it was an amendment of VED charges retrospectively.

 

If you want to discuss obvious/naive. The ever rising cost of VED is pretty obvious. To say that change is retrospective is rather naive. 😜