1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

The law of physics still applies to them and any other type of rechargable battery, as they near full charge, the charging current will reduce and last few % will take longer.

 

Indeed it slows down but the variety of charge rates, which we call the C rate ie ratio of kWs in relation to the kWh capacity of the battery does vary widely.

 

Shortly after commencing charging ie around 10%, my Scenic 60 kwh nominal is charging at over 2 C. Even at 96% SoC it is charging at 0.8 C

 

Some EV barely make 1 or 1.5 C at any point and are down to 0.2 C in the 80s or 90s % so a wide variety of charging rates out there.

 

5 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

You turn it on, you point, you press the shutter - same on both film and digital - not the best analogy you could have chosen.

See below, digital gives far more flexibility at fraction of price per photo.

 

Kinda like EV's.

EV are not limited to filling up at any station and the energy could come from own generation.

 

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Quite, the possibilities with a digital camera far exceed those that you can do with a film camera right from just clicking the shutter you have more options and then even more after post editing in less time and better results than you'll ever get with a normal consumer film camera

 

48 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Indeed it slows down but the variety of charge rates, which we call the C rate ie ratio of kWs in relation to the kWh capacity of the battery does vary widely.

 

Shortly after commencing charging ie around 10%, my Scenic 60 kwh nominal is charging at over 2 C. Even at 96% SoC it is charging at 0.8 C

 

Some EV barely make 1 or 1.5 C at any point and are down to 0.2 C in the 80s or 90s % so a wide variety of charging rates out there.

 

Agreed, but all batteries obey the same physics laws as do ICE engines all follow the same thermal physics, you can't change that. Big batteries like big combustion engines will have a slightly different curve due to various factors, but all will follow the same basic curve. 

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Agreed, but all batteries obey the same physics laws as do ICE engines all follow the same thermal physics, you can't change that. Big batteries like big combustion engines will have a slightly different curve due to various factors, but all will follow the same basic curve. 

 

But they do vary sometimes by factors of 2,3 or 4 as to how they perform.  Both in charging on the lower part of the charging curve ie say 5% to 50% and how they perform in the 50% to 95%.  Very important to do one's homework when acquiring and EV.  Charging Curves available at places like EV knowledge exchange.....

This is a good curve I reckon though battery chemistry is advancing at such a level that it will soon be surpassed no doubt (unless you have a Taycan and are MacMaster).......   

 

https://evkx.net/models/renault/scenic/scenic_e-tech_electric/chargingcurve/

 

   

I've just bought a replacement car for my wife and it got me thinking.

I wonder, how many people on Briskoda actually own an EV, in that they actually committed their own money to buy and own an electric vehicle?

 

I'm excluding lease contracts, Motability, and PCP contracts.

I'm happy to count a car you ran under PCP and then bought at the end of the contract, and obviously HP and personal loans are just ways to finance ownership of a car.

What I want to know is how many people on here actually OWN an electric vehicle. (And I mean a Battery Electric vehicle, not a plug-in or self-charging hybrid.)

 

Anyone at all?

@wyx087 has a Nissan Leaf.       EV,s were very expensive vehicles to buy new or slightly used until recently and are only now becoming more proven as to which are reliable or less likely to be a money pit as far as repairs.     There are ones I would not touch with a barge pole like from Stellantis no matter how cheap.  As it is I still do not intend buying an EV as a replacement for an ICE I am going to be retiring.  I have no mates that are EV technicians or any Independent EV garages near.  I could not work on them. 

Edited 29 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

3 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@wyx087 has a Nissan Leaf.     

100% owned, not a lease battery? 😉

Did Nissan lease batteries?  I thought that was Renault.  EDIT, I see they did / do.   Now I could have got caught out buying one from a man in the betting shop. 

Edited 29 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

I'm actually currently considering obtaining an EV. I'm sure that statement will be met with a degree of incredulity by many readers!😄

The situation is that work recently mentioned that they are going to be introducing a salary sacrifice scheme which got me thinking...

It will obviously depend on the numbers once the scheme gets up and running (the scheme isn't running yet).

However - and this is obviously only my situation...

I currently own my wife's Polo outright which is worth around £14k - if I sold it and put the money in the bank I could reasonably expect to earn about £500 or more a year in interest (obviously this could drop).

I could shift about 20k of my annual mileage onto the EV (15K of this would be commuting and the rest made up of other local short trips).

I could keep the Skoda and use this for my longer journeys and have the added benefit of keeping the mileage low and therefore depreciation (I'm currently doing about 22k miles a year on the Skoda and about 10k on the Polo).

20k miles worth of fuel is probably at least £2k at current prices and I should be able to charge the EV at work as we have chargers (albeit very slow and only 4no.) and obviously I could charge cheaply at home for any additional requirements.

So total potential savings per year as it stands would be:

£500 interest

£2,000 fuel

£3,000 set aside for replacement car

£300 servicing

£200 VED

£6,000 total

 

Unknowns

Actual cost of the scheme - i.e. how much will I lose in take home pay for whatever car I choose.

Inclusions/exclusions - would insurance be covered for example?

 

It's certainly got me thinking about which EV is best though. Looking for something efficient and long range to minimise need of public charging but still be able to maximise what I can use it for.

Tesla's seem the obvious market leaders but I really don't like the look of them and neither do I like the touch screen does everything approach. The charging network is obviously a massive plus with them but as I don't really intend to do much, if any public charging then it's not really a game changer. Plus it looks like they will be increasingly opening the sites to all EVs in the long term anyway.

I won't take any of the Chinese brands.

The most obvious model that's got my attention at the moment is the VW ID7 estate. Seems to be very efficient, great range, highly practical and well equipped.

Downsides seem to be the relatively high cost.

 

Have I missed anything? Any other cars that I could look at? Any other potential costs/savings I've missed?

 

 

The great unknown is the UK,s Labour Government.  UK Growth and Taxing the workers and non worker / retired.

 

 

What includes insurance as well! That just takes the biscuit and exposes the insurance industry is just a licence to effectively print their money.

15 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Many have an ice vehicle and only put £20 in?

My GF NEVER fills the tank in her Audi A5 cabrio.

3 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

My GF NEVER fills the tank in her Audi A5 cabrio.

My sister-in-law doesn't either, but then like so many cars these days, it seldom leaves the city and its only use is to take her from home to her Mums, 1.2 miles away and to the local Sainsburys 1.4 miles away, the car is 10 years old and has only done 9,000 miles and she purchased it new, and there are cars like that in street as well. A full tank of fuel lasts her months of motoring.

2 hours ago, EnterName said:

I wonder, how many people on Briskoda actually own an EV, in that they actually committed their own money to buy and own an electric vehicle?

Wife's Nissan Leaf was on PCP in 2017, specifically purchased no battery lease, purchased outright at end of PCP in 2019, total cost including interest was £8800. In her name on the V5c, keeping until probably suspension are beyond economical repair. Potholes around here are numerous and lethal.

My Tesla Model Y purchased outright 2022. In my name on V5c, keeping until after another MY update and buy a 2-3 year old, so this car will probably be 10 years old.

My Tesla Powerwall 3 was installed in 2024, 0% 3yr loan so took it and stuck the money meant for it elsewhere to grow.

My parents just bought (last week, cash purchase) an ex-motability 2023 Hyundai Kona 39 kWh, just 5000 on the odometer. Zappi charge point install today.

 

There's one big outlier in those 3 cars, but it's more of a want to play with tech than need. EV overall were very cheap back in 2017 and are at price parity still getting cheaper after ~2024. Battery are also cheaper now that they are 0% VAT.

 

In searching, and having read poor winter performance of Stellantis cars on this very forum, I told my parents to look at Hyundai/Kia, VAG and Renault. They ended up liking look and size of Kona, nothing else on the market in 2022 or later is this small. I suggested looking a new Renault 5, but my Dad did not like the idea of initial new vehicle depreciation.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dieselgate said:

However - and this is obviously only my situation...

Presumably you can charge at home and are happy to move to time-of-use tariff? Otherwise not much fuel saving.

You say 20k annual mileage on the EV, this will push up leasing cost. Need to balance lease cost increase vs fuel savings. But also check out excess mileage cost, may be cheaper to pay the excess miles cost and still get some fuel saving (eg. 8p per mile still gives you 2-3p fuel saving charging at 7p or just 5p on Tomato)

If 20k is for commuting and you will mostly charge at home, all EV on the scheme will be brand new, so any of them can comfortably do your commute.

As pointed out, insurance will be costly so ensure it is included in the lease. Not all lease includes insurance, at least not when I looked at leasing via personal means.

As well as ID range, Renault are worth looking at, their recent offerings seem excellent value. The Koreans' EV are known to be very good and efficient.

 

I personally think 2 car approach, EV for most things, ICE for long distance, makes a lot of sense.

I think Tesla are only worth it if you know you will use their superchargers. But you will probably drive your ICE for long trips and home charge most of the time.

 

23 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Presumably you can charge at home and are happy to move to time-of-use tariff? Otherwise not much fuel saving.

Yes - I don't have a home charger currently but apparently the scheme will be run through Octopus who offer a free home charger apparently. I already use Octopus Agile at home but will obviously switch to a more EV focused tariff if and when I have it. There's an Eon tariff that looks quite interesting at around 7p kW/h for 7 hours at night which would work well I reckon. Especially as I have air conditioning that I often run (for heating and cooling) during the night. Agile hasn't been a great tariff over the winter months so was thinking about moving on anyway.

But as I mentioned, I'm hoping to get most, if not nearly all charging for free at the workplace EV chargers. Only slight concern is they are only 3.6kw so I can probably only get 30-35kW/h per day and my commute is around 33 miles each way.

Plus if lots of people start getting them then there will probably be quite a scramble for the chargers😅

I guess final choice of vehicle will largely come down to the numbers of the various vehicles available on the scheme. The ID7 is interesting to me as it looks to be one of the most efficient and longest range available at the moment, especially as it's low drag coefficient should mean it's still fairly efficient at higher speeds as most of my driving is motorway.

6 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

only get 30-35kW/h per day and my commute is around 33 miles each way.

That's more than enough for free return journey. Even 4 hours is enough to cover majority of your commute (40 odd miles) still giving lots of fuel saving.

 

If more people get EV, you can work out some sort of whatsapp group within the company and coordinate charging this way (eg, 4 hours morning for first batch, afternoon for late leavers). When we only had 4 charge points, we did this until more were installed.

 

With free or cheap energy and routine journey, you won't need to focus on efficiency.

ID7 may wipe out possible savings, it's their top of the line offering, so be careful and do the numbers.

 

Unless the lease on ID range is very cheap because the car is end of 2024 pre-reg for VAG's ZEV mandate, everyone seems to think there is lots parked up in a field.

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

 

 

The great unknown is the UK,s Labour Government.  UK Growth and Taxing the workers and non worker / retired.

 

 

 

With 2.8T debt got to do something, and that figure does not include unfunded ie from current account public service pensions.

 

30 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

That's more than enough for free return journey. Even 4 hours is enough to cover majority of your commute (40 odd miles) still giving lots of fuel saving.

Yes absolutely, main concern is to finish Friday with as close as possible to a full battery to maximise free usage at the weekend!

 

The chargers hardly get used at the moment despite a few people owning EVs which I find quite surprising. If it becomes a problem then I'm hopeful we could get them upgraded, or more installed.

Yes the ID7 is clearly an expensive option but I pay tax at 62% so this takes a fair amount of the hit.

Will have to wait and see!

@Dieselgate Eon Next asked me yesterday if i was interested in a new Trial Scheme and moving from the 12 Months fixed V5 Drive with the 6.7 pence a kWh 12am -7pm.

They will credit £30 to my account. It looked when i read it on my phone as though it is a charge when standard day tariffs if needed or offered.

I applied anyway and am waiting for them to get back to me exactly trial / pilot is exactly. 

 

33 kWh worth of charging getting 3.3 miles a kWh is 109 miles. 

What i am getting for £2.21.

 

 

Edited 29 January, 20251 yr by Ootohere

30 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Dieselgate Eon Next asked me yesterday if i was interested in a new Trial Scheme and moving from the 12 Months fixed V5 Drive with the 6.7 pence a kWh 12am -7pm.

They will credit £30 to my account. It looked when i read it on my phone as though it is a charge when standard day tariffs if needed or offered.

I applied anyway and am waiting for them to get back to me exactly trial / pilot is exactly. 

 

33 kWh worth of charging getting 3.3 miles a kWh is 109 miles. 

What i am getting for £2.21.

Yes I think that's the tariff I'm interested in. Seems pretty good value - lower cost per kWh than any of the Octopus tariffs and for 7 hours instead of 5 or 6.

Day rate is lower than Octopus too, just standing charge about 2p higher.

Plus no exit fee so can change if something better crops up but with the advantage of it being fixed for 12 months.

If you aren't bothered about energy fuel mix, Tomato Energy is worth considering.

https://www.tomato.energy/fuel-mix

 

5p for 6 hours and other 14p periods for washing, etc.

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

If you aren't bothered about energy fuel mix, Tomato Energy is worth considering.

https://www.tomato.energy/fuel-mix

 

5p for 6 hours and other 14p periods for washing, etc.

 

 

 

Interesting, never heard of them before!

Pricing on their dynamic tariff for yesterday is way lower than Octopus Agile.

5 hours ago, Dieselgate said:

Yes the ID7 is clearly an expensive option but I pay tax at 62% so this takes a fair amount of the hit.

Will have to wait and see!

Eh? what, 62%, I thought the highest level of tax was 60%?

30 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Eh? what, 62%, I thought the highest level of tax was 60%?

I could be out of date but I think it's 62% when including NI.

26 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Eh? what, 62%, I thought the highest level of tax was 60%?

 

2% NI to add on to the 60%.

 

The 60% only occurs, as the tax rate for the 100 to 125k per annum is 45% put the effects of reducing one's tax code from 1257 to zero incrementally between the 100k and the 125k has this effect of creating what calculates as 60% for the bit between 100k and 125k pa.

 

What is usually done is to slice off a bit that would be subject to this ridiculous rate of tax and put it in to pension pot, up to 60k per annum, or develop some other tax avoidance strategy.

 

Be interesting to see how tax codes change in 60 days time when so many tax rules change on VED, particularly for company car hybrids and codes go lower or negative. Minus 5k is the lowest code I have had.