2 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

The change to 80 amp fuses in domestic houses instead of 100amp was due to temperature. It was originally assumed that most of the load would be in winter (electric heaters etc). The supply cables (called tails) are often rated based on temperature of 20c.

Now people are using more power in summer, it was standardised to prevent hot wires, because cables were not really rated for 100amp continuous in hot weather.

The National grid struggles in parts of the country because most of the high power grid was built to shift electricity from coal fired power stations in north midlands to big industry sites and cities. It simply hasn't caught up with shifting electricity from remote wind farms and solar arrays to motorway service area car parks in fairly rural areas.

4 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

Funding for cross pavement charging solves the problem of getting power to the kerbside but fails to tackle the even more difficult issue of there not being any "right" to park in front of your own house - so if the nearest place you can park to your own house is out of range of the charging cable (which is not unlikely) then charging an EV at home when you don't have a drive will still be impossible.

This weekend I've been staying with a friend and never once been able to park outside their house, one day the nearest I could get was 100 metres down the road.

Japan adopted K cars ie short cars, taxed less and more cars can be fitted on the kerbside.

UK cars have got much longer than average cars a few decades ago.

Charge less VED for sub 4m, or even 3.5m ir 3m cars.

Great car park in Stroud had a sign up "Minis only" (old 10 foot Minis). Smarts Twos are even less.

We don't exactly deal with problems as they are creaky emerging. Glad to see some car parks banning 5m cars in the standard spaces as they poke out in to the pedestrian walkway.

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Japan adopted K cars ie short cars, taxed less and more cars can be fitted on the kerbside.

UK cars have got much longer than average cars a few decades ago.

Charge less VED for sub 4m, or even 3.5m ir 3m cars.

Great car park in Stroud had a sign up "Minis only" (old 10 foot Minis). Smarts Twos are even less.

We don't exactly deal with problems as they are creaky emerging. Glad to see some car parks banning 5m cars in the standard spaces as they poke out in to the pedestrian walkway.

That is just guff IMO. The reason why it is sometimes impossible to get anywhere near to your own house (unless you have your own driveway, big enough to fit your car(s) onto is because these days there are more families sharing the same home, i.e. children still living with mum and dad, even though they are married because so few youngsters today cannot afford to buy or rent their own homes and true social housing is almost nonexistent.

Yes, cars have also got so much bigger, they have had to, in order fit all the safety equipment in them. Add the fact many people in the western world are physically larger then most of those from eastern countries.

Just how would you expect for instance to fit my family into a original mini when there are 3 of us living at the same address who are 1.93m tall and a 1.7m into a mini, especially when I'm 76 this year and have mobility issues, hence why I have a almost 5 metre long Superb, which is being replaced this week with a almost equally large and high SUV because I am in agony getting in and out of the large superb and a mini or a "K" car would be game over.

Edited 14 July, 202514 Jul by Graham Butcher

Can someone please tell me just how this is even considered to be a safe option for charging your car at the roadside? Not only is it a hazard to partially sighted and blind people but so many people do not even have any idea just how dangerous electricity is and the cables will be getting cuts and scraps possibly even down to bare conductors and this is bad enough when it is on your own driveway, but to allow this sort of thing going on in the public domain is just pure lunacy.

This is one reason why so many people these days don't clear snow and ice from their pathway, because if they do and someone has an accident, the homeowner is liable. However they are not if they leave it uncleared.

Edited 14 July, 202514 Jul by Graham Butcher

This type of charging is happening and has been for years now.

It is just so it is. Blind people or those with poor sight know all about all these types of trip hazards.

As do Guide Dogs for the blind.

I live in a town with the Guide Dog Training Centre.

People like me with artificial legs are maybe fine walking on snow as long as it is not thawing and turning to ice.

Those that clear snow and then let water turn to ice maybe need to think on and get salt / grit down.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Head for thinking, feet for dancing, or even possibly tripping.

Councils and Government need to realise there are non as daft as folk including politicians.

Edited 14 July, 202514 Jul by Ootohere

5 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

This type of charging is happening and has been for years now.

It is just so it is. Blind people or those with poor sight know all about all these types of trip hazards.

As do Guide Dogs for the blind.

I live in a town with the Guide Dog Training Centre.

People like me with artificial legs are maybe fine walking on snow as long as it is not thawing and turning to ice.

Those that clear snow and then let water turn to ice maybe need to think on and get salt / grit sown.

While it is true, it is and has been happening, that does not make it either right or safe. I have heard of people who have had legal action taken against them by the local council for running a power cable out to their car to charge their 12v battery as the local authority deemed the cable to be unsafe, especially given that if a person trips over a uneven or broken pathing slab, they themselves can be sued by the person tripping. While this is not a widely known issue at present it will be in the future.

Can I run a cable to charge an electric car across the pavement? | This is Money

Edited 14 July, 202514 Jul by Graham Butcher

Groundhog day.

We all hear it, read it, see it. Post about it. There is nothing new really going on is there?

Car fires, pavement crossed by cables. Contact your councillor, MP or maybe Reform UK.

Stop the boats, stop the EV,s.

Edited 14 July, 202514 Jul by Ootohere

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is just guff IMO. The reason why it is sometimes impossible to get anywhere near to your own house (unless you have your own driveway, big enough to fit your car(s) onto is because these days there are more families sharing the same home, i.e. children still living with mum and dad, even though they are married because so few youngsters today cannot afford to buy or rent their own homes and true social housing is almost nonexistent.

Yes, cars have also got so much bigger, they have had to, in order fit all the safety equipment in them. Add the fact many people in the western world are physically larger then most of those from eastern countries.

Just how would you expect for instance to fit my family into a original mini when there are 3 of us living at the same address who are 1.93m tall and a 1.7m into a mini, especially when I'm 76 this year and have mobility issues, hence why I have a almost 5 metre long Superb, which is being replaced this week with a almost equally large and high SUV because I am in agony getting in and out of the large superb and a mini or a "K" car would be game over.

120 million Japanese work with it. I found, and my 6 foot fie friends, old mini fie for size. Remove seat rail stop. Drop the steering rack with a little bracket. Car has plenty of head room. I could not fit in a Hyundai Coupe just built for sub 6 footers.

With EVs the one can tuck the electrical components easier. ICE cars fundamentally flawed as inline engines with the cylinder axis perpendicular to the road. Proper ICE cars use boxer engine or vvankel or the like to get a low bonnet or put the engine at the rear down low. Another reason EVs are superior.

23 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

120 million Japanese work with it. I found, and my 6 foot fie friends, old mini fie for size. Remove seat rail stop. Drop the steering rack with a little bracket. Car has plenty of head room. I could not fit in a Hyundai Coupe just built for sub 6 footers.

With EVs the one can tuck the electrical components easier. ICE cars fundamentally flawed as inline engines with the cylinder axis perpendicular to the road. Proper ICE cars use boxer engine or vvankel or the like to get a low bonnet or put the engine at the rear down low. Another reason EVs are superior.

Have you looked at EV SUV's lately, they are all massively high things like a bleeding Range Rover Velar.

Honestly, take my word for it, there is a wealth of difference between 6Ft and 6Ft 4", and when I was many years younger, I used to drive Mini's (the old original minis) with the floor mounted starter button and the long spindly gear lever and had great fun chucking it around. Wait a few years until your get to be a pensioner, unable to get to down low, legs painful as f**k, even getting up from a sofa hurts like hell then maybe you'll see just how silly some of the comments you make are.

I know that when I was younger and my late Mum was in her seventies I used to say some things to her about do this or that, now that age, I fully understand just how she must have felt, embarrassed because she couldn't no longer do the things she used to do, and also must have been mega pi**ed at my total lack of respect for her plight. She was a very keen gardener and had a large garden and 2 allotments that she used to spent hours every day, in winter and summer tending to, growing all her own organic fruit and veg, no lawns or flowers, just food, root crops, fruit bushes, runner beans, salads, small orchard, blackberries, strawberries etc as well as having around 2 dozen hens.

I can no longer do my own decorating, I started to decorate my hallway, staircase and landing 3 years ago and it is still mocking me and I'm going to have pay a decorator to and and do it for me.

This is why I'm saying goodbye to my much loved ICE Superb this week because it doubles me up in pain every time I get in it or out out of it and saying hello to an ICE Kodiaq as I just have to open the door, swing my legs out and let them hit the floor and then it is as if I am actually standing up with my arse still on the seat, and is heaven, far less painful (it is my left leg that is the problem) so with the car being right hand drive, it is my right leg that takes my weight in the Kodiaq, whereas in the Superb or my sons Audi A5, both legs and back really suffer.

So much for Japanese K cars, there bucket loads of really large humongous Japanese cars around and even more in Japan itself, good luck getting a Sumo wrestler into a K car.

Here are just a few of those large cars and google for them and you find masses of them.

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by Graham Butcher

So grants or money off some electric cars £37,000 and less and various amounts. Manufacturers to apply for which ones in their range it will be. Looks like being a complicated scheme. No idea how it affects those that lease / rent their vehicles and no matter if £30,000 or £27,000 they are not buying, just leasing. PS. Will an Alpine A290 meet the strict environmental requirements, or a Abarth 600-e?

EDIT.

Band 1. £3,750

Band 2. £1,500

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by Ootohere

The government announcement, from the horse's mouth:

GOV.UK

Discount of up to £3,750 on electric cars set to slash co...

Car manufacturers can apply for the Electric Car Grant from 16 July 2025.

Owning and buying an electric vehicle (EV) is becoming cheaper, with 2 in 5 of used electric cars sold at under £20,000 and 33 brand new electric cars available from under £30,000.

In my opinion, it's basically handing tax payer money to manufacturers. The £37k cut-off threshold could be lower to incentivise more choice in cheaper end of the EV market, and hopefully band A requirements are really strict.

It didn't work well back before 2020. When grant was cut, car list price was magically cut for similar amount.

I think money is better spent on charging infrastructure and combating misinformation. Build it and they will come.

They need to get a grip as far as the Ministers sent out.

Prepped with all the key words, and messages to get out.

Lilian Greewood MP, Futures Road Minister is the one today.

As see appears on more programmes she is getting more up beat, Sky, then BBC then onto ITV.

'Give them / her an EV for a month with either them or their driver driving and a rule that they must do just public charging & not using Government / Work place charging.

Not expecting them to be getting the 2 pence a mile that they go on about but do their miles at 15 pence a mile.

Again it is the 'Across the Country' when talking England and Councils in England,

then 82,000 public chargers around the UK.

Just say 'Across England' if England and 'Across the UK' if the UK, or Across Britain if Britain'.

It is not British Drivers, other than if they mean Drivers in Britain be them British or any other nationality.

As to British Workers. Is this them going all REFORM UK. Stop the boats. British Cars for British People / Drivers.

The quoted 'AVERAGE Price of EV,s, is really not that important when so many EV,s first Registered were / are Company Cars, premium cars per the number of EV,s there were 'Offered for sale' up to last year and more and more on sale with RRP,s under £30,000.

The Politicians do seem to just dismiss the Public Charging Issue, and think 'Parking outside your home', and gullies are the solution, or part of the solution.

Mention as some TV presenters do, Flats, Tower Blocks etc. We get back to ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

Mention not just needed on major routes but in Towns & Cities and again the Local Councils, ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

BBC,s presenter this morning says 'Will dealers not just increase prices to then people get discounts?'

Well it is Manufactures RRP,s.

Sky,s presenter pointed out to today's Government minister, he has an EV.

She says, Her husband has a Hybrid, but the next car, blah blah blah.

Home charging and we can charge when we go places.

Yes you can, at prices greater than the Petrol & Diesel which in the UK is more expensive than needs to be.

The sustainability / green credentials will be interesting.

Chinese built cars / imported from around the world. MINI Electrics, vs a British Built Nissan.

Or a car built on Mainland Europe / EU.

Battery and material sources, factories using renewable energy to manufacture etc.

Cars with more performance than efficiency.

The WLTP figures are very much kidology.

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by Ootohere

Now it is "Up to 70% of people do have a Drive Way" according to Lilian Greenwood MP Future Roads Minister.

49 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Now it is "Up to 70% of people do have a Drive Way" according to Lilian Greenwood MP Future Roads Minister.

Maybe in the leafy part of her Nottingham South constituency but in any inner city area (where millions of people live) the figure is much closer to 0%.

I suspect the Minister has glanced at the Google AI summary which gives a figure of 68%?

It's this constant denying that access to driveway charging (and parking outside your own house) is a problem that makes it hard to believe politicians have any understanding of the "real world".

Oh and the new EV cost cap on the discount being well below the average cost of a new EV means the scheme can only apply to a minority of new EV purchasers.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

They need to get a grip as far as the Ministers sent out.

Prepped with all the key words, and messages to get out.

Lilian Greewood MP, Futures Road Minister is the one today.

As see appears on more programmes she is getting more up beat, Sky, then BBC then onto ITV.

'Give them / her an EV for a month with either them or their driver driving and a rule that they must do just public charging & not using Government / Work place charging.

Not expecting them to be getting the 2 pence a mile that they go on about but do their miles at 15 pence a mile.

Again it is the 'Across the Country' when talking England and Councils in England,

then 82,000 public chargers around the UK.

Just say 'Across England' if England and 'Across the UK' if the UK, or Across Britain if Britain'.

It is not British Drivers, other than if they mean Drivers in Britain be them British or any other nationality.

As to British Workers. Is this them going all REFORM UK. Stop the boats. British Cars for British People / Drivers.

The quoted 'AVERAGE Price of EV,s, is really not that important when so many EV,s first Registered were / are Company Cars, premium cars per the number of EV,s there were 'Offered for sale' up to last year and more and more on sale with RRP,s under £30,000.

The Politicians do seem to just dismiss the Public Charging Issue, and think 'Parking outside your home', and gullies are the solution, or part of the solution.

Mention as some TV presenters do, Flats, Tower Blocks etc. We get back to ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

Mention not just needed on major routes but in Towns & Cities and again the Local Councils, ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

BBC,s presenter this morning says 'Will dealers not just increase prices to then people get discounts?'

Well it is Manufactures RRP,s.

Sky,s presenter pointed out to today's Government minister, he has an EV.

She says, Her husband has a Hybrid, but the next car, blah blah blah.

Home charging and we can charge when we go places.

Yes you can, at prices greater than the Petrol & Diesel which in the UK is more expensive than needs to be.

The sustainability / green credentials will be interesting.

Chinese built cars / imported from around the world. MINI Electrics, vs a British Built Nissan.

Or a car built on Mainland Europe / EU.

Battery and material sources, factories using renewable energy to manufacture etc.

Cars with more performance than efficiency.

The WLTP figures are very much kidology.

Agree 100%, they just trot out the same old lies and sound bytes and many people will fall for it because they are being told that it is true anyone would think that politicians only ever speak the truth and they do actually understand the real world and that they do live in it 🤔

@PetrolDave No idea why they say 'People that have driveways', it is residential properties that matters / homes. (Are they counting all the 1 day olds to 17 year olds?)

They might have from 1 person to 40 living there or any number. Multiple occupancy.

How many people in the UK or across the Country of England have a driving licence and live in a property with offroad parking and that can have EV chargers is a figure they have not a clue about, but i am sure someone will be getting paid to conjure up an 'estimate'.

There is another issue.

Long since past the time Properties / Residences were Surveyed for Council Tax Purposes and then they will know who or what has a door with access to ground floors, or to a private or shared off road parking or access.

PS

Insurers in the UK know how many Car / Vehicle Insurance Policy holder 'claim to have offroad or private parking' and use it overnight, or even daytime.

They will know i expect as a calculation how many are lying on their insurance proposal / application.

Another can of worms that Insurers and the Government will not want to be opening.

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by Ootohere

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The government announcement, from the horse's mouth:

GOV.UK

Discount of up to £3,750 on electric cars set to slash co...

Car manufacturers can apply for the Electric Car Grant from 16 July 2025.

In my opinion, it's basically handing tax payer money to manufacturers. The £37k cut-off threshold could be lower to incentivise more choice in cheaper end of the EV market, and hopefully band A requirements are really strict.

It didn't work well back before 2020. When grant was cut, car list price was magically cut for similar amount.

I think money is better spent on charging infrastructure and combating misinformation. Build it and they will come.

Still a bit unsure ie second hand as well as new, as long as under £37k ?

One can be sure that the discount will always be less than the VAT (still 20%) so Government will still get some revenue plus, hopefully ie a UK, or EU with our closer ties on buying each others made stuff, jobs etc from EVs made in Washington T&W, more sales at dealers who sell EVs, more car handovers, sales of associated stuff, finance and extras, it will be good for more turnover.

Is there is list of cars out there ?

Hopefully already having one lot of EV grant 4 years ago, and subsidised chargers as well, will not be a bar.

There are papers that have lists of EV,s they think will get grants.

Seemingly Manufacturers have to apply to have vehicles included.

Looks like a thrown together not sorted out scheme.

How are Lease cars affected, or are they not. Cars people have ordered and are on their way, and they qualify,

I assume they get their discount.

Cars need to be getting bought then, by private individuals regardless of how many they might already have.

Can they buy then just transfer the keeper ship to A.N. Other.

So not like Interest Free loans, or buying an EV if you do not already have one, used electric car or van schemes as in Scotland.

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by Ootohere

28 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There are papers that have lists of EV,s they think will get grants.

Seemingly Manufacturers have to apply to have vehicles included.

Looks like a thrown together not sorted out scheme.

How are Lease cars affected, or are they not. Cars people have ordered and are on their way, and they qualify,

I assume they get their discount.

Cars need to be getting bought then, by private individuals regardless of how many they might already have.

Can they buy then just transfer the keeper ship to A.N. Other.

So not like Interest Free loans, or buying an EV if you do not already have one, used electric car or van schemes as in Scotland.

Was happy for my lad getting his Cooper E Exclusive level 1 with HOD and numerous quite nice features and Mini (with GWM) knocking these out at £31K is a good price I felt, always annoying if you feel one has lost out on possible lower monthly payments.

Scheme will probably cause anyone even thinking of getting an EV to wait until September new Reg when the scheme should be in full swing by then. Let's see if Dealer/Agent discounts, cheaper finance etc just melt away and they take a good chunk of the pay out as happened under the last government's EV scheme.

34 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There are papers that have lists of EV,s they think will get grants.

Seemingly Manufacturers have to apply to have vehicles included.

Looks like a thrown together not sorted out scheme.

How are Lease cars affected, or are they not. Cars people have ordered and are on their way, and they qualify,

I assume they get their discount.

Cars need to be getting bought then, by private individuals regardless of how many they might already have.

Can they buy then just transfer the keeper ship to A.N. Other.

So not like Interest Free loans, or buying an EV if you do not already have one, used electric car or van schemes as in Scotland.

Us French firms usually know to the gram how much CO2 every stage of a process is but other countries, not so much I would have thought. Maybe that is part of the cunning plan ? French, German (& CZ) and Spanish car manufacturers maybe able to do this tout suit but CN, I have my doubts.

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by lol-lol

Apparently Public charging has been added to salary sacrifice schemes in addition to pension schemes, EV purchasing, nursery places ! 40% cheaper Public EV charging.

Even I am thinking things maybe going a bit too far.... https://electroverse.com/business/salary-sacrifice

French should come out well in the CO2 production as so much of their Grid is nuclear powered. There was talk about production CO2 but not transportation in the UK EV grant scheme.

Guess it probably takes about half a tonne per car to bring it from SE Asia to Europe. Below is the first of a new class of ship for us, launched 2023. 72,000 Gross tonnes, can car up to 7000 cars. Running three but plan is to a dozen or more. LNG powered which translates to about a quarter less Carbon emission. Interesting if the transportation Carbon is being included in the UK EV grant system. Picture at bottom, love piccy of a nice biggish merchant ship.

Carbon taxing, or getting grants, is coming in big time. EU currently and close behind the UK is due to implements.

GOV.UK

Factsheet: Carbon border adjustment mechanism

Taxation and Customs Union

Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism

The CBAM will initially apply to imports of certain goods and selected precursors whose production is carbon intensive and at most significant risk of carbon leakage: cement, iron and steel, alumin...

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by lol-lol

How to get maximum grant, applied by manufacturer.

GOV.UK

How to apply for vehicle eligibility for the Electric Car...

AI summary:

🌍 Environmental Criteria (Affect Grant Band)

To qualify for the higher £3,750 grant band, both environmental criteria below must meet low-carbon thresholds:

1. Science Based Target (SBT):

   • Manufacturer must hold a verified SBTi certification (near-term or net-zero).

   • Applies to the company with >50% ownership of the vehicle’s production.

2. Low Carbon Manufacturing:

   • Vehicle assembly and battery cell production must occur in countries with low electricity carbon intensity (based on IEA data).

     • Battery production = 70% of environmental score.

     • Vehicle assembly = 30% of environmental score.

---

✅ Technical Criteria (Mandatory for Eligibility)

1. Vehicle Type and Classification:

   • Must be an M1 category passenger vehicle.

   • Must produce zero tailpipe CO₂ emissions.

   • Must have a minimum WLTP range of 100 miles.

   • Must achieve a top speed of at least 60 mph.

2. Battery/Fuel Cell and Warranty:

   • 8-year / 100,000-mile battery or fuel cell warranty.

     • Battery must be replaced if capacity drops below 70%.

     • Fuel cell must retain ≥90% voltage for 5 years.

   • Vehicle must have a 3-year / 60,000-mile general warranty.

3. Battery Degradation Standard:

   • Battery must retain:

     • ≥80% capacity for 3 years.

     • ≥70% capacity for 8 years or 100,000 miles.

4. Crash and Electrical Safety:

   • Must meet M1 crash safety standards (e.g. Whole Vehicle Type Approval or equivalent NCAP data).

   • Must comply with UN Regulation No. 100.02 or later.

   • Provide electrical safety documentation for consumers and emergency services.

---

💷 Additional Conditions

• RRP price must be ≤ £37,000, including VAT, delivery, and battery (but excluding registration, insurance, etc.).

• Grant is available only for new cars at first registration.

• Each vehicle variant must be separately approved if specs differ significantly.

Can clearly see that this is the result of heavy behind the scenes lobbying that’s been at play by the car manufacturers. Many of whom (European established brands especially) are really struggling.

So all this really is a manufacturer subsidy, dressed up/spun to look like it’s benefiting the consumer.

The Chinese (arch competitors) have been completely cut out of the subsidy, under a tissue paper thin veil of non ‘green manufacturing’.

This is the amount of power legacy car manufacturers have over our politicians.

But having said that, let's see where new Nissan Leaf or Micra lands price-wise. A red one may be coming to replace our red Leaf.

13 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

How to get maximum grant, applied by manufacturer.

GOV.UK

How to apply for vehicle eligibility for the Electric Car...

AI summary:

Can clearly see that this is the result of heavy behind the scenes lobbying that’s been at play by the car manufacturers. Many of whom (European established brands especially) are really struggling.

So all this really is a manufacturer subsidy, dressed up/spun to look like it’s benefiting the consumer.

The Chinese (arch competitors) have been completely cut out of the subsidy, under a tissue paper thin veil of non ‘green manufacturing’.

This is the amount of power legacy car manufacturers have over our politicians.

But having said that, let's see where new Nissan Leaf or Micra lands price-wise. A red one may be coming to replace our red Leaf.

Sort of glad that Chinese don't qualify as would have been gutted if the Mini we "bought", PCP, yesterday suddenly become much cheaper.

But if the R4 drops a chunk that would be great though the Megane is cracking deal with 4 year 0% and it was even cheaper it will be incredible.

Edited 15 July, 202515 Jul by lol-lol

Maybe time that there were smaller Tesla models to suit more World Regions. & built in Europe.

Or is it too late for that?

Edinburgh Airport. Park and Ride. 7 X 50 kW chargers. 4 out of service and 3 working. Same old same old. Thank goodness I am in a diesel and waiting about not going through the carry on with cards not starting the 3 that are powered up and people needing to phone to get started. Then hitting the emergency stop to stop charging.

Edited 17 July, 202517 Jul by Ootohere