4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

In some UK places, poor areas with old terraced houses, there is not the need for cars as use of The Tube or other public transport systems. Current generations are the last to own specific transport as it will make no economic sense to do so once, in a few years time, cars will be called to ones home via am App and take you where you want to go and then go back to a car pool and you call on the App again when you wish to return home. No of cars in the UK could drop from whatever it is now, 30M or so, to a fifth of that ad that would be all that is needed.

In other areas it is more likely to be near 100% as public transport is minimal.

That said the areas you referenced with the tube is also the areas where a lot of the super rich have their mansions and will have a fleet of cars, large highly polluting ones, so it counters those that use the tubes?

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

In other areas it is more likely to be near 100% as public transport is minimal.

That said the areas you referenced with the tube is also the areas where a lot of the super rich have their mansions and will have a fleet of cars, large highly polluting ones, so it counters those that use the tubes?

It is young people choosing not to get a driving licence in think that will be the telling factor.

The youngsters in my family are not getting manual gearbox licences ie only can drive autos. Covid had a big hit particular on number of licences in the under 25 age group. Just going to be no reason to have a driving licence next decade. What that will do for car production and I presume insurance will be part of the hire charge.

16 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

It is young people choosing not to get a driving licence in think that will be the telling factor.

The youngsters in my family are not getting manual gearbox licences ie only can drive autos. Covid had a big hit particular on number of licences in the under 25 age group. Just going to be no reason to have a driving licence next decade. What that will do for car production and I presume insurance will be part of the hire charge.

Oh come on, where is the logic in that, can't keep using Covid for the reason of everything. And have you looked at the number of new ICE cars that are offered in manual format, even small city cars these days are increasingly only available as automatics. Also with EV's supposedly flying out the door, they are if they are pure EV, only like a automatic having forward, neutral and reverse selectors, speed being done by frequency convertors.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

In some UK places, poor areas with old terraced houses, there is not the need for cars as use of The Tube or other public transport systems. Current generations are the last to own specific transport as it will make no economic sense to do so once, in a few years time, cars will be called to ones home via am App and take you where you want to go and then go back to a car pool and you call on the App again when you wish to return home. No of cars in the UK could drop from whatever it is now, 30M or so, to a fifth of that ad that would be all that is needed.

Don't talk daft... We are many many years from that being reality believe me... It's part of my day job.

Edited 7 September, 20257 Sep by skomaz

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

In some UK places, poor areas with old terraced houses, there is not the need for cars as use of The Tube or other public transport systems. Current generations are the last to own specific transport as it will make no economic sense to do so once, in a few years time, cars will be called to ones home via am App and take you where you want to go and then go back to a car pool and you call on the App again when you wish to return home. No of cars in the UK could drop from whatever it is now, 30M or so, to a fifth of that ad that would be all that is needed.

No doubt there will also be some with solar panels and battery storage,that get paid by the electricity company for charging, that will buy a fleet of Teslas and sign up to be part of the Robotaxi system.

Edited 7 September, 20257 Sep by Stonekeeper

54 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

It is young people choosing not to get a driving licence in think that will be the telling factor.

The youngsters in my family are not getting manual gearbox licences ie only can drive autos. Covid had a big hit particular on number of licences in the under 25 age group. Just going to be no reason to have a driving licence next decade. What that will do for car production and I presume insurance will be part of the hire charge.

It's very short sighted to pass your driving test in an automatic as one day you could find yourself needing to drive a car or van that's a manual.

Public transport in rural areas is poor and you will need to drive a car. In London public transport is good, well not this week as the tubes are on strike.

If young people are choosing not to get a driving licence why is the waiting list for driving tests so long?

3 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Did you read the bottom 2 lines of my post?

Sorry, I thought I answered this question, but subsequent checking, it appears I thought I had but didn't, so here goes. Yes I did read the last lines of your post but that is less then ideal as it then getting extremally close to the cost of running an ICE car with none of the conveniences of a 5 minute fill up from empty to full again, so would would an actual private owner want to do that, especially given the premium price paid for the EV over an equivalent ICE?

Those that are actually doing it are probably driving a company supplied car or a mobility supplied one I would suggest.

But this is the real world.

Premium Price paid new, Business / lease, even private.

Not by Motability, they get deals like fleets might.

Used Premium EV,s selling damn cheap even compared to the Premium ICE equivalent.

So even paying £25 for 50 kWh and getting 200 miles will suit plenty.

A petrol version getting 40 mpg will be 5 gallons @ say £6 =£30. So plenty are driving ex company cars bought used, and a bargain really if buying a pretty new used car that lost 2/3rds in less than 2 years.

Long Battery Warranty and maybe an extended warranty bought. Not expensive.

Servicing need not be expensive.

@Ootohere I was not even for a single moment suggesting that mobility would be suppling premium cars, but that a lot of mobility cars would be electric as they are going electric to help push the numbers up, and as there are more people without home charging, so that they would be having to use public charging at the prices you mentioned.

All EV's have far lower value than a ICE car of the same size etc after they leave the showroom, which as I was implying, if buying a new one, must be taken into account, which even if you can charge at home rapidly takes the shine out of the far lower running costs and that it might just still a better financial decision to buy a ICE car, depending on your annual mileage.

But as I have always claimed, there is an argument to be made for EVs and I firmly believe that if that is a persons personal choice and it suits their life style, then it should be their right to have one. What I don't agree with is the slow banning and phasing out of ICE cars by legislation, it should really be down to market forces.

Talking about EV's this test of a Ioniq 5 by Hub nut I thought was very interesting.

Edited 7 September, 20257 Sep by Graham Butcher

@Graham Butcher You can have a Premium car on Motability, a BEV, pay up to £8000 and get one.

Plenty do. All peoples / families with a disability are not skint.

Plenty have money. Ex Military get higher payments / allowances.

Edited 7 September, 20257 Sep by Ootohere

@Ootohere there we go, people do learn from our posts, I did🤣🤣

Anyone seen the latest video by Barrie Crampton, released just 11 hours ago.

It seems Polestar is reeling from the faked sales of EV cars despite just a short while ago claiming a massive 185% increase in sales to todays reports from Polestar Polestar EV losses increase by 2957% to £703 Million.

Edited 7 September, 20257 Sep by Graham Butcher

21 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

It seems Polestar is reeling from the faked sales of EV cars despite just a short while ago claiming a massive 185% increase in sales

Where is the source about this "faked sales"?

Other publications are saying the losses are due to those rebadged Chinese cars being hit by US tariffs.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-maker-polestar-takes-tariff-hit-reports-wider-quarterly-loss-2025-09-03/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-09-03/polestar-takes-739-million-hit-on-us-tariffs-ev-slowdown

https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/polestar-faces-major-losses-due-to-us-tariffs-and-pricing-pressure/123693807

34 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Where is the source about this "faked sales"?

Other publications are saying the losses are due to those rebadged Chinese cars being hit by US tariffs.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-maker-polestar-takes-tariff-hit-reports-wider-quarterly-loss-2025-09-03/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-09-03/polestar-takes-739-million-hit-on-us-tariffs-ev-slowdown

https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-vehicle/polestar-faces-major-losses-due-to-us-tariffs-and-pricing-pressure/123693807

I take it then that once again you did not watch the video where Barrie actually proved the fake sales on Autotrader, I have no idea how much other proof you need. Those links you provided are of course not going to rock the boat for obvious reasons.

I have just been watching the latest Harrys Garage video only 4 hours old. He meets up with Jeremy Clarkson at his pub (The Farmers Dog) to talk about Jaguar and the future of the brand and other things and it gets really interesting from 17 minutes and 45 seconds into when they both discuss modern trends of screens and menu driven systems on cars and then a bit further on they get into electric cars. Spoiler alert, some of you will not like the electric section, while I know that some of you will agree with a lot of the comments they ake about the utter madness that some the cars are these days.

.

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

I take it then that once again you did not watch the video where Barrie actually proved the fake sales on Autotrader, I have no idea how much other proof you need. Those links you provided are of course not going to rock the boat for obvious reasons.

Looking on Autotrader wouldn't prove enough "fake sales" beyond pre-reg done by main dealers. The publicised losses are so large it goes far beyond UK sales numbers. The links provided are opinions from industry analysts looking at the global market.

So now, the new goal post according to you: pre-reg = fake sale?

Also, can dealership network unsold stock be related to Polestar manufacturer losses?

Great to see innovation so alive and well in the automotive industry and leading the European model sales last year and first half of this year ie Dacia Sandero, closely followed by the Clio, with a Peugeot in third, the Dacia brand sounds like it is on to another winner, or winners as is for the Duster and Bigster, maybe the predicted death of ICE cars is premature ? Shame UK LPG sourcing is so poor as this is how mainland Europeans are achieving low running costs UK drivers miss out on.

https://media.dacia.com/a-new-powertrain-range-for-duster-and-bigster-with-hybrid-lpg-4x4-and-automatic-transmission/

---

A new powertrain range for Duster and Bigster: with hybrid, LPG, 4x4 & automatic transmission

Announcing the all-new hybrid-G 150 4x4 powertrain:Hybrid, up to 60% full electric driving in the city;Bi-fuel petrol / LPG with two tanks of 50 litres each for a WLTP range of up to 1,500 km and 30% lower running costs;All-wheel drive delivered by a rear-mounted electric motor coupled to an innovative 2-speed gearbox with a disengageable clutch;Responsive 6-speed dual-clutch automatic gearbox;The hybrid-G 150 4x4 powertrain will be soon available

Edited 8 September, 20258 Sep by lol-lol

There are so many Polestar on offer nearly new /low miles.

The Airport Hire cars that are delivered by the Bakers Dozen or more regularly and ones hardly used removed.

Delivered to Sporting Events like Tennis & Golf also for a few days or weeks use.

How much Credits Geely sell to other manufacturers in the UK that are not Registering enough No Emissions vehicles others will maybe know or find out.

Smoke an mirrors right across BEV sales / registrations in the UK.

Kidology about losses maybe a Taxes nor needing to be paid, and penalties to the Treasury.

...

Social domestic leisure, or maybe Commuting, or even Business, Commuting , Social domestic and leisure.

60 MPH NSL UK. Just transport.

Parked on drive or street or public car parks. Insurance not that high for some.

What a bl00dy plaster. Just get a pre 2024 EV as a commuter. They are available for around £5,000-6,000.

Edited 8 September, 20258 Sep by Ootohere

20 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

I really like the Out of Spec youtube stuff.

Hope Rivian input really bears fruit after the disaster of the the VW software usage.

Great video of the 'No ID ea' of what is really coming at around 20,000 euro.

'I guess as long as you mention lots of stuff some will be correct'.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

What a bl00dy plaster. Just get a pre 2024 EV as a commuter. They are available for around £5,000-6,000.

Hell, if you were a private buyer in the first instance, then that amount of depreciation to even £6,000 is one bitch of a bitter pill to swallow, which just highlights that private buyers are not yet convinced of the viability of going electric for what ever reason, be it lack off road parking for charging, range anxiety of other factors.

So if an EV is suitable for you and fits your needs nicely then plenty of second hand bargains to be had, which unless your a keeping with your neighbours type of person, is also going to further dent the uptake of new EV's, leaving the market more or less to the companies/fleets.

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

I have zero idea how good Rivian software is, but not sure if it is good that new cars are so reliant on software, what happens when that software reaches the end of support. We all know just how bad that with our computers etc when Microsoft, Google or Apple decide to not support their products any longer.

Is it just me or does anyone else also see similarity with the Renault 5?

Edited 8 September, 20258 Sep by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Shame UK LPG sourcing is so poor as this is how mainland Europeans are achieving low running costs UK drivers miss out on.

Will be interesting to see if they bother to bring the powertrain to the UK market. LPG in the UK certainly has declined a lot in recent years. The Morrisons near me still sells it but I think it's the only mainstream place. About £1 a litre I think, which combined with the higher consumption probably doesn't make for much of a saving in running costs.

Looking at other countries though, it looks like some places selling it for less than 70 cents a litre in Belgium which would be nice.

Maybe if other manufacturers give it a go we might see a return but I won't be holding my breath.