53 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol you mentioned a few posts ago today about the staggering level of ignorance that some have about certain topics, I agree and on that point in particular about electrics in homes etc. Anyone with any basic understanding of electrics and calculations knows that electrical power is the result of volts multiplied by the current, so 240watts @ 240 volts equals 1 amp (W=VxI) where W = Watts, V=Volts and I=Amps. Therefore, to get 240watts at 110V requires 2amps (240=110x2).

Take at look at this UK website for Speedy Tool Hire giving reasons for industrial tools being 110V 110v & 240v Power Tools: Differences & Guide | Speedy Hire

An extract from that site says this-

If hiring power tools from Speedy, you usually have the option to choose between 110v and 240v for the tool you need. However, if there is no option of choice, an isolating transformer can convert the voltage of a corded power tool.

Most sites ban 240v tools because of safety. 110v tools are seen as posing less risk of shock, as the current flowing through the cable is half of that with 240v tools. This is important if the electrical wiring or appliance is damaged.

However, the consensus is that it is best to just use 110v tools where possible to minimise the number of products on site.

Likewise, if you want to use a power tool or appliance at home and only the 110v version is available, you can use a transformer to convert the voltage to 240v.

Using a transformer means that you can make high-quality, professional-grade power tools safe to use at home, for any DIY jobs or renovations.

That is also not the only mis-information given on that site either.

But let's get back to the core topic of electric cars.

The voltage drop is to move closer to the 220v European nominal voltage.

Gradual indexing it down, ia m guessing to see which electrical devices start failing with this lower voltage.

Thought my fridge freezer was dying but electually worked out it was something in the moulded plug, not the fuse of course. Thinking of sawing it up to see why it failed.

Interesting times as am I going to get less than the 7.2 kws from my main EV charger and less than 3 6 kw out of my smaller EV charger. A 9% lowering of average voltage it gets could mean longer charge times needed. Sure I will find a technical solution but another somewhat unexpected challenge.

Engineer and ingenuity have the same Latin root.

51 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

The primary reason for using isolating transformers is the fact that the supply is completely isolated from any earth (ground) connection - so that even if a connected appliance develops a fault, there is no return path from the appliance to earth. This is also true for Double Insulated appliances.

Actually, this is misinformation the all portable power tools on a construction must be 110v and fed via 110v CTE (centre tapped earth) so that the maximum voltage on site to earth is only 55V. Electricity - Systems in buildings - HSE

Scroll down on that site to the heading Portable electrical equipment for the confirmation.

I apologise for labouring the point, but electrics are deadly and nobody if they are not a qualified electrical engineer should really not be tampering with electric.

Now, can we get back to normal, car discussions.

1 hour ago, Warrior193 said:

Actually the angle between separate phases is 120 degrees.

I just put the 180 degrees down to a typo, I knew what you meant.

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

A thousand times that!

Did you know a lot of EV motors run on 3 phase AC 😉

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I just put the 180 degrees down to a typo, I knew what you meant.

No, 3 phase is 120 degrees of phase shift.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power

Also, there's more to risk management than the voltage that may cause electric shocks.

High amps causing overheating occurs more often than electric shocks.

44 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Did you know a lot of EV motors run on 3 phase AC 😉

No, 3 phase is 120 degrees of phase shift.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power

Also, there's more to risk management than the voltage that may cause electric shocks.

High amps causing overheating occurs more often than electric shocks.

Yes I did know that EV's use a 3 phase AC motor and that that comes from a built-in inverter in the car and the speed of that motor is adjusted by adjusting the frequency of the AC supply to the motor. The same basic concept that is used on variable speed industrial motor drives on machinery.

Yes I also know the risks associated with higher current flows that cause overheating, hence why we use over current protection devices, circuit breakers, HRC fuses, MCCBs etc. But the first and foremost consideration has to shock protection in the first instance. Let me tell you something, I have been in the electrical industry since day 1 when I left school and spent over 8 years building up my qualifications so I do actually know what I'm talking about.

EDIT. My comment about the phases was not a statement made by me, but was actually made by @PetrolDave hence why I said, I knew and that I put it down to a typo, not mine but by @PetrolDave 😒

Edited 10 November, 202510 Nov by Graham Butcher

On this occasion I think that Dave takes it On, makes some good points.

5 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

Actually the angle between separate phases is 120 degrees.

120 degrees in the UK/EU 3 phase system, but 180 degrees in the US 2 phase system.

7 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

120 degrees in the UK/EU 3 phase system, but 180 degrees in the US 2 phase system.

Actually it seems you are correct as the main generation is 3 phase which is 120 degrees but the way that they get 220/240V and 110/120V is to take what we call a single phase supply to a centre tapped transformer, to which the earth and neutral are connected. So you effectively get the same thing as our 110v portable tool transformers.

Lots of new reviews for cheaper EVs.

Grand Panda and updated e C3, both Stellantis but decent efforts to appeal to families wanting runabouts.

27 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Lots of new reviews for cheaper EVs.

Grand Panda and updated e C3, both Stellantis but decent efforts to appeal to families wanting runabouts.

Still a long way to go, yet before there will be more affordable offerings in all the segments of the market, and also the massive differences for those that cannot charge at home.

Also I see that Rachel from accounts is now looking at applying the 3p per mile charge to hybrids as well as BEV's. If that happens, it risks stalling the transition completely as both hybid's and PHEV's are already paying fuel duty and we know that many PHEV's never are plugged in, so you could argue that they are already paying more pro rata than the equivalent ICE model because their MPG figures are worse as they also have to lug all that extra weight around them.

7 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Still a long way to go, yet before there will be more affordable offerings in all the segments of the market, and also the massive differences for those that cannot charge at home.

Also I see that Rachel from accounts is now looking at applying the 3p per mile charge to hybrids as well as BEV's. If that happens, it risks stalling the transition completely as both hybid's and PHEV's are already paying fuel duty and we know that many PHEV's never are plugged in, so you could argue that they are already paying more pro rata than the equivalent ICE model because their MPG figures are worse as they also have to lug all that extra weight around them.

Hybrids, particularly PHEVs, about to be super whacked as their road tax becomes real.

EV road tax will get water down.

Wonder if I get some really big high profile tyres I can get the odometer to move slower ?

Good point on hybrids, how do you tax that without an existing counter to count electric-only miles?

I think the fair and KISS way is to roughly pro-rata reduce fuel duty and apply 3p/mile on all cars. Would be interesting to see how they want the reporting to be done.

20 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Still a long way to go, yet before there will be more affordable offerings in all the segments of the market, and also the massive differences for those that cannot charge at home.

Also I see that Rachel from accounts is now looking at applying the 3p per mile charge to hybrids as well as BEV's. If that happens, it risks stalling the transition completely as both hybid's and PHEV's are already paying fuel duty and we know that many PHEV's never are plugged in, so you could argue that they are already paying more pro rata than the equivalent ICE model because their MPG figures are worse as they also have to lug all that extra weight around them.

Hopefully VAT on public chargers going from 20% to 5% or Zero rate fly will be a significant help.

Cheaper sourced electricity for the public charge operators, some already give cheaper off peak charging costs ie when electricity is effectively about 7p per kwh instead of costing them 28p per jwh.

Lots deals for much lower rates. Think my R5 has talk to charger capability so less faff with RFID cards. Tesla had forever of course

Slower than the progress it should be but that just seems to be the poor rules concerning public charging. Portugal was well good and cheaper.

16 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Hybrids, particularly PHEVs, about to be super whacked as their road tax becomes real.

EV road tax will get water down.

Wonder if I get some really big high profile tyres I can get the odometer to move slower ?

Don't forget to also bolt a ladder to the body to help you get in and out as well 🤣

2 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Think my R5 has talk to charger capability so less faff with RFID cards. Tesla had forever of course

I would not be surprised if that feature or something similar is not already built into most of the more modern BEVs, just not software enabled, or publicly announced just yet.

@lol-lol BEV,s do handshake with chargers.

?

So what chargers / Charging provider is it that you can just plug into and off the charging goes like Tesla,s at Superchargers.?

You obviously have have an Account with your payment details

11 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol BEV,s do handshake with chargers.

?

So what chargers / Charging provider is it that you can just plug into and off the charging goes like Tesla,s at Superchargers.?

You obviously have have an Account with your payment details

Škoda have Plug & Charge with Ionity chargers .

39 minutes ago, classic said:

Škoda have Plug & Charge with Ionity chargers .

Like Ionity.

6 good ones at Magor and a Subway 100m a way.

Plinths for 6 more there.

Waiting for 4 to go live near Gloucester, wish it was 6 or 12.

Gridserve reliable. Rugby is awesome site. Frankley services also good, Gridserve and Tesla V4s.

This feature is called "Plug and Charge".

https://electroverse.com/community/ev-blogs-and-guides/what-is-plug-and-charge

It is part of ISO 15118

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118#Plug_&_Charge

(note, mileage is not part of data being exchanged)

But as with all things, support is on a car-by-car basis. Many vehicle technically could be isn't being updated to support this. My parent's MY2024 Megane for example doesn't get any feature updates what so ever.

Motability informed me that their MINI Electric leased to me was part of the trial they were doing with the RAC where over the air they could report issues with the car and alert me.

There were issues, but the silence from them was deafening. I was told nothing.

They will have known the cars mileage and much else. Well if the system was working...

2 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Motability informed me that their MINI Electric leased to me was part of the trial they were doing with the RAC where over the air they could report issues with the car and alert me.

There were issues, but the silence from them was deafening. I was told nothing.

They will have known the cars mileage and much else. Well if the system was working...

That is the type of thing I was referring to that could be used for PPM, all new cars already have some form of connectivity, even if it via a sim card like the SOS button, and it only requires the software to retrieve the data and send it via what ever method possible, even ICE cars have had digital mileometers for decades along with SOS buttons.

Software /Hardware not in anyway an issue. eg Black Boxes fitted for Insurance discounts, car trackers as used for Security and Hire, Loan, Company cars and Dealership / Manufacturers Courtesy cars and demonstrators.

Now the 4 countries of the UK and Law & Legislation for something compulsory is a different matter.

Data / Information Security and a Provider / Contractor.

Maybe they could get FUJITSU or maybe Huawei to be responsible for the administration and security...

12 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol BEV,s do handshake with chargers.

?

So what chargers / Charging provider is it that you can just plug into and off the charging goes like Tesla,s at Superchargers.?

You obviously have have an Account with your payment details

Indeed I think there is a place in the software to but the account details but I don't think there is or was such a feature in the Scenic or so.

Like the new name George, my R5 i am picking up in a few minutes is called an Evolution model. Insurance has gone down from the Zoe to the R5, just a few quid but all helps.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is the type of thing I was referring to that could be used for PPM, all new cars already have some form of connectivity, even if it via a sim card like the SOS button, and it only requires the software to retrieve the data and send it via what ever method possible, even ICE cars have had digital mileometers for decades along with SOS buttons.

How long would car makers require to make the adaption ?

There is relatively few volume car makers in the uk, Nissan, Toyota, a few in the luxury sector. Think it would be a manana response.

Edited 12 November, 202512 Nov by lol-lol

2 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

How long would car makers require to make the adaption ?

There is relatively few volume car makers in the uk, Nissan, Toyota, a few in the luxury sector. Think it would be a manana response.

All I'm saying is that it is theoretically possible that with all the built-in electronics in cars these days. My car has no fewer than 25 minicomputers, all talking to each other on the internal network that it may only require a minor software update and many cars these have over the air software update feature built in that allows the manufacturer to also remotely diagnose and also like in the case of Tesla, unlock extra functions etc. Older cars like the old ICE cars never had any form of electronics in them other than a capacitor across the points in the distributor and maybe a radio in some cars. Perhaps that could be a reason why the proposed scheme currently is only being proposed for electric cars, BEVs, PHEVs and also Hybrids are all thought to be targeted for 2028, with ICE following later.

For confirmation, time will certainly tell us all one way or the other.

Autocar

This Volkswagen proves EV batteries last longer than you...

The German Automobile Club has shown that EV batteries can stand up to hard use

"

The German Automobile Club (ADAC) recently published the results of a four-year test using a Volkswagen ID 3 Pro S Tour. It took delivery of the 77kWh EV in May 2021 and various drivers contributed to 100,000 miles driven.

The battery was repeatedly checked at the independent Bavarian Test and Technology Centre during the test. The SoH was 96% after 13,500 miles, 94% after 52,000 miles and 91% after 90,000 miles a figure within the expected range.

"

and in an unrelated group test:

"

In a large study of its own, involving 402 EVs of the same brand and battery type, the company found that "moderate driving behaviour" reduces energy consumption by 10% over a battery's life cycle.

"