4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

True, excellent at that kind of running cost, but that bubble will be burst soon with rising energy costs in the not too distant future.

Do you know something else as I understood energy prices, specifically electricity, was going to take a massive fall in 48 days time with most the ECO levies come off electricity with over 3.5p per kwh. If that comes off the 7p per kwh that some get for overnight charging then that is golfing the cist to charge. Git a feeling we will not get the full 3 5p per kwh but even 1p off the Night dare would be great.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Do you know something else as I understood energy prices, specifically electricity, was going to take a massive fall in 48 days time with most the ECO levies come off electricity with over 3.5p per kwh. If that comes off the 7p per kwh that some get for overnight charging then that is golfing the cist to charge. Git a feeling we will not get the full 3 5p per kwh but even 1p off the Night dare would be great.

Did you not see this?

https://www.cityam.com/british-gas-electricity-bills-higher-than-ukraine-war-2030/

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Do you know something else as I understood energy prices, specifically electricity, was going to take a massive fall in 48 days time with most the ECO levies come off electricity with over 3.5p per kwh. If that comes off the 7p per kwh that some get for overnight charging then that is golfing the cist to charge. Git a feeling we will not get the full 3 5p per kwh but even 1p off the Night dare would be great.

Yes, I think you'll find it is a short term thing, all designed to try and stop the decline in adoption of electric cars which will revert as soon as possible.

I was reading somewhere recently, can't remember precisely where, and also I heard it on the news that electricity was going to increase a lot in due course, especially as and when more and more electric HGV and buses take to the road.

I did come across this little nugget, which shows just how much we are having to import electricity from other countries, which clearly shows that we far being self-sufficient and we are still heavily dependant on our European neighbours to keep our lights on Power surge: UK spends £250 million each month importing record volumes of electricity from Europe - Drax Global

This chart shows where we are as of 2024 and it shows the massive spikes in the importation grows as more electric cars demand more power to keep them going. The chart is extracted from the above site.

The report also claims that we are spending some £250 million a month on imported electric power. Maybe this is why the Russians are so interested in plotting where our interconnects are located and hence the presence of the spy ship in the North Sea, which is causing the military so much concern.

Edited 13 February13 Feb by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Dieselgate said:

Did you not see this?

https://www.cityam.com/british-gas-electricity-bills-higher-than-ukraine-war-2030/

Well he would say that. He does not want people opting for heat pumps and see his business for home heating evaporate.

Less and less homes will be buying electricity from the Grid as more and more homes have solar installed and many with batteries as well so they can choose when to buy from the Grid or invest more in their solar installation.

Soon as the weather improves I will be outside putting more panels on my second solar tracking array.

Electricity and gas have to compete with home ans work generation so they will keep their prices in scope.

7 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Well he would say that. He does not want people opting for heat pumps and see his business for home heating evaporate.

So why do you think they sell heat pumps?

People shifting their energy usage from gas to electricity simply means they move from one of his products to the other.

7 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

So why do you think they sell heat pumps? People shifting their energy usage from gas to electricity simply means they move from one of his products to the other.

But Centrica is no longer the dominant force in the market, Octopus is. Of course they sell Heat Pumps as every big energy provider has to as part of their portfolio but thy have had so many of the customers go from them to Octopus or Eon or the other more innovative energy companies.

I do actually have a contract with BG/ Centrica for home systems maintenance and I find then excellent but my energy supply is thru Octopus on their GO tariff ie just under 30p per kwh during the 19 hours on non Night rate, Night rate 8.5p per kwh and I use 90% of my electricity at night so my average electricity cost is 11.2p per kwh including VAT. But A=gas is so cheap and going to get cheaper from April. Currently pay 5.7 p per kwh on a fixed 12M and it is due to go down another 0.5p per kwh, so 5.2p per kwh hour, so frigging cheap but then I do use a combined total of about 8 MWh per year and this winter has been quite a cold one and now we have 3 EVs with addition of the Mini Cooper E in addition to the 2 Renault EVs.

Gas boilers are very good heating devices. Mines a 15 kw newish boiler with 90% or so efficiency. I will work to get a heat pump but it might be unit that runs in tandem and like my solar and batteries I will go for units I can take with me rather than permanent installs to the house as you rarely get close to the install cost back when you sell a house.

Greg Jackson is helping the government with the energy transition, in homes, business and transport, which is great to see. Like my super massive company I am employed by we are making huge efforts to move away from carbon fuel usage and we are massive in air cargo, rail freight, road freight and of course shipping which is the most difficult to crack but moving strongly on all fronts.

14 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

But Centrica is no longer the dominant force in the market, Octopus is.

Centrica is not a lot smaller than Octopus and I've no idea why you think that explains him trying to feed what you are effectively dismissing as 'disinformation'. Everyone needs electricity, not everyone uses gas so it's not as if they are going to abandon the electricity market.

43 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

But A=gas is so cheap

Why do you keep saying that when it has doubled in the last few years? I was paying 2.5p kW/h as recently as early 2022.

It's interesting to read this thread - I'm keeping out of commenting as some of the posts appear to demonstrate how much of an isolated bubble world some people live in that appears to be slightly disconnected from reality and full of unconscious and confirmation bias.

12 minutes ago, Dieselgate said:

Centrica is not a lot smaller than Octopus and I've no idea why you think that explains him trying to feed what you are effectively dismissing as 'disinformation'. Everyone needs electricity, not everyone uses gas so it's not as if they are going to abandon the electricity market. Why do you keep saying that when it has doubled in the last few years? I was paying 2.5p kW/h as recently as early 2022.

What Octopus have done, ie become bigger customer base than Centrica in about a decade, from nothing, is awesome. Really shaken up the market and recognised as such not just as a supplier but through its Kraken software-hardware platform which about half the energy companies use.

In terms of price I was thinking gas is cheap compared to electricity in Q1 2026 and how that affects home owners thinking about heat pumps compared to gas boilers. My company now uses vast amount of LNG to power ships now and that will suck up some of the world demand. Such an interesting market as we have seen by the shock weather in the US and Canada throttling electric supply to NE USA as well as Hungary and Slovakia buying Russian LNG despite the Russia-Ukraine conflict. As with diesel and petrol I would like to move away from hydrocarbons fuels as it tends to come from such bad people in the world.

Cornwall Insight, who seem to be the leading predictor, reckon this but we will know for sure in 12 days time.... Should be very nice and especially for us who use two or three times the average usage... https://www.cornwall-insight.com/press-and-media/press-release/price-cap-forecast-to-fall-8-in-april/

Edited 13 February13 Feb by lol-lol

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Greg Jackson is helping the government with the energy transition

I cannot imagine why a CEO of an Electricity supplier would want to help the Government encourage everyone to use electricity for everything.

I think that you are missing the point

12 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

What Octopus have done, ie become bigger customer base than Centrica in about a decade, from nothing, is awesome. Really shaken up the market and recognised as such not just as a supplier but through its Kraken software-hardware platform which about half the energy companies use.

In terms of price I was thinking gas is cheap compared to electricity in Q1 2026 and how that affects home owners thinking about heat pumps compared to gas boilers. My company now uses vast amount of LNG to power ships now and that will suck up some of the world demand. Such an interesting market as we have seen by the shock weather in the US and Canada throttling electric supply to NE USA as well as Hungary and Slovakia buying Russian LNG despite the Russia-Ukraine conflict. As with diesel and petrol I would like to move away from hydrocarbons fuels as it tends to come from such bad people in the world.

Cornwall Insight, who seem to be the leading predictor, reckon this but we will know for sure in 12 days time.... Should be very nice and especially for us who use two or three times the average usage... https://www.cornwall-insight.com/press-and-media/press-release/price-cap-forecast-to-fall-8-in-april/

I think that you are missing the point here, which I feel you do so often, and that is because you are so passionate about electric cars and that is fine. I feel that the point here that @Dieselgate is trying to convey, to you but you are ignoring is these energy suppliers have to generate their power, and the price of doing so will be increasing quite significantly in the fullness of time.

Edited 13 February13 Feb by Graham Butcher

16 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

What Octopus have done, ie become bigger customer base than Centrica in about a decade, from nothing, is awesome. Really shaken up the market and recognised as such not just as a supplier but through its Kraken software-hardware platform which about half the energy companies use.

In terms of price I was thinking gas is cheap compared to electricity in Q1 2026 and how that affects home owners thinking about heat pumps compared to gas boilers. My company now uses vast amount of LNG to power ships now and that will suck up some of the world demand. Such an interesting market as we have seen by the shock weather in the US and Canada throttling electric supply to NE USA as well as Hungary and Slovakia buying Russian LNG despite the Russia-Ukraine conflict. As with diesel and petrol I would like to move away from hydrocarbons fuels as it tends to come from such bad people in the world.

Cornwall Insight, who seem to be the leading predictor, reckon this but we will know for sure in 12 days time.... Should be very nice and especially for us who use two or three times the average usage... https://www.cornwall-insight.com/press-and-media/press-release/price-cap-forecast-to-fall-8-in-april/

You haven't unfortunately addressed the main point which was about Centrica saying the price of electricity is likely to increase a lot over the next 4 years and by extension the impact this could have on the takeup of EVs (which is of course the main topic of this thread). You initially dismissed this as a biased viewpoint but have provided nothing to back this up.

Do you think that electricity prices are not going to go up between now and 2030?

Gas has always been much cheaper than electricity. If it was the same price then nobody would be able to afford to heat their home. Saying it is cheap right now just because it's cheaper than electricity is like saying bread is cheap just because it's less than meat even if bread has just doubled in price.

Just now, Stonekeeper said:

I cannot imagine why a CEO of an Electricity supplier would want to help the Government encourage everyone to use electricity for everything.

Really ?

Because electricity can be generated without almost any carbon consumption.

Gas, of course, means burning carbon in to CO2, CO etc.

With the world suffering more and more with climate change we have less and less time to take action.

Heat pumps can actually help reverse climate change ie help cool down the Earth with its 300-400% efficiency.

https://stopburningstuff.org/

With solar, Battery cheap overnight tariff but allowing for what he lost from Electricity export. £268 a month?

But what if he had no battery and solar and paid 27,4p for all kwh?

1 minute ago, Dieselgate said:

You haven't unfortunately addressed the main point which was about Centrica saying the price of electricity is likely to increase a lot over the next 4 years and by extension the impact this could have on the takeup of EVs (which is of course the main topic of this thread). You initially dismissed this as a biased viewpoint but have provided nothing to back this up.

Do you think that electricity prices are not going to go up between now and 2030?

Gas has always been much cheaper than electricity. If it was the same price then nobody would be able to afford to heat their home. Saying it is cheap right now just because it's cheaper than electricity is like saying bread is cheap just because it's less than meat even if bread has just doubled in price.

It is looking like both Electricity and Gas are going down in the UK in April. Tempered by other factors of course but we are aware that the removal of much of the ECO levies, on their own, are to reduce electricity by over 3.5 p per kwh and gas by about 0.5 p per kwh, even if one is on a fixed tariff Octopus and others have agreed with Martin Lewis and Rachel Reeves.

What the future holds is in large part due to politics ie Iran and the straights of Hormuz, sailed through there a few times and of course Russia and also more building of LNG terminals.

In my acquisition of more and more solar and battery and what me and my neighbours are doing in adding 5 kw + solar systems and presumably many with 10 to 20 kwh battery storage systems business and home owners are increasingly less reliant on the Grid and Heat Pump Tech dovetails with Heat Pumps and makes gas usage unnecessary.

British Gas guy should know all if this and more if he has half a brain. The gas side of his business will go the way of the Dodo next decade as with diesel and petrol cars.

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

British Gas guy should know all if this and more if he has half a brain.

Probably safe to assume that he does. You don't normally get that kind of job without one.

Did you actually read what he said? The key point being that bills will be about 2/3 system costs and 1/3 wholesale prices. The grid upgrades are happening and will cost money one way or another that everyone will have to pay for. That is regardless of how the electricity is being generated, battery/pumped storage etc.

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I think that you are missing the point

I think that you are missing the point here, which I feel you do so often, and that is because you are so passionate about electric cars and that is fine. I feel that the point here that @Dieselgate is trying to convey, to you but you are ignoring is these energy suppliers have to generate their power, and the price of doing so will be increasing quite significantly in the fullness of time.

Why when the UK is the Wind Farm super power of Europe ?

Plus solar in the UK, solar farms and UK homeowners, is growing exponentially.

I can see electricity being generated for as little as 1P per kwh.

As to how the UK government lifts that price with taxes, charges to upgrade parts of the UK energy supply, particularly the £100B for Hinkley C and Sizewell C, seems to be how we suddenly get prices of 7p per kwh, a seven fold increase.

Fortunately I have the knowledge to build my own solar and battery systems. If the Grid does not want to sell me energy at a low enough price I will make my own electricity. Fortunately Octopus have been doing a great job to produce ultra cheap power to charge up our EV fleet to run them at 2p per mile and that is looking like getting significantly cheaper in the next few weeks.

60 pence a kWh. 10 kWh @ 60 pence a kWh £6.00. Getting 4 miles a kWh is 40 miles for £6. I am getting 3.1 miles a kWh just now and over the past 2 months. That is 31 miles for £6 if i can get 60 pence kWh rapid charging. I can very seldom get that without it being @ a Tesla Super Charger. I can sometimes not get as much as 20 kW charging for a higher tariff than that, or 7 kW AC charging. My home tariff at 6.9 pence a kWh for 7 hours ends in July and likely i will be having to go to only 6 hours and at 7.5 pence or more a kWh. If the Electricity for Public Charging or even home charging is less next February than this then that will be just fandabbydozzy. But still not cheaper than if i was running an ICE vehicle the same size and power & doing some home charging but more public charging since when away from home i can not Home Charge.

Ed Miliband MP is supposedly going to stop Wind Farm owners gaming the system and getting very well compensated for not generating electricity that the National Grid is incapable or transmitting or it being used. We will see. It is the Non National Owned National Grid that is getting 'Money for old rope' or actually paid UK Tax Payers money to improve an out of date system while they send huge profits to offshore economies.

Apparently it would take around 8 to 12 years to build a powerline from Scotland to the south coast, and that would be running about 2 miles away from my front door if they could ever get the final plans approved. Which at the moment is embroiled in loads of red tape with councils and masses of residents all opposed to it and this has been going on for the last 3 years to my knowledge.

Hinkley point C is not supposed to be online until well into the mid-2030s and even then will only generate enough power for 6 million homes 7% of UK power need.

Building started last year on Sizewell C due on line mid 2030s to 2040 powering 6 million homes, 7% of UK power need.

Bradwell B is still in the feaseablity stage, would take an estimated 12 years to build (always run into delays), so if construction starts this year, it would be late 2030s to early 2040s before coming online and power 4 million homes, 4.5% UK power demand.

Wylfa power station, if construction starts this year would be broadly the same as the above Bradwell B online mid 2030s to early 2040s, powering 3.5 million homes, 3.5% UK power demand.

So where is all this extra power coming from to power all the proposed electric cars, vans, HGVs and buses coming from in 2030, given the massive size of these HGV fleets and buses?

Once again, the UK has some very grand ideas and very little forward planning on how to deliver the massive amounts of power of power that would be required to keep people and vital goods mobile then? The above power stations would possibly deliver some 19 million homes then, when we had 30.4 million homes in 2024. Wind and solar cannot make up the rest, as wind does not always blow and I frequently see wind farms where no blades are turning, and no solar at all during the night.
Are we living in cloud cuckoo land or what?

Hinkley Point C | EDF

Building Sizewell C - Sizewell C

Homepage - Bradwell B Project Site

Wylfa nuclear power station - Wikipedia

@Graham Butcher Westminster is going to have 'Energy Security' for the UK or just England by the importation of Electricity from overseas and it coming in under the sea from Continental Europe as well as further afield. Also importing LNG. They will be prepared to get it from anyplace they can rather from the Nation in the North if they can. For Road / Transport Fuels and Petro Chemicals as long as China Petro are in partnership with Sir Jim Ratcliff / Ineos they will get liquid stock from them regardless of the Refineries in the UK closing. PS. it is not just about powering or heating homes. There is industry and commerce and obviously the 10 x plus or is it 100 times electricity needed for DATA CENTRES for AI.

Edited 13 February13 Feb by Evolution13

20 hours ago, Evolution13 said:

60 pence a kWh. 10 kWh @ 60 pence a kWh £6.00. Getting 4 miles a kWh is 40 miles for £6. I am getting 3.1 miles a kWh just now and over the past 2 months. That is 31 miles for £6 if i can get 60 pence kWh rapid charging. I can very seldom get that without it being @ a Tesla Super Charger. I can sometimes not get as much as 20 kW charging for a higher tariff than that, or 7 kW AC charging. My home tariff at 6.9 pence a kWh for 7 hours ends in July and likely i will be having to go to only 6 hours and at 7.5 pence or more a kWh. If the Electricity for Public Charging or even home charging is less next February than this then that will be just fandabbydozzy. But still not cheaper than if i was running an ICE vehicle the same size and power & doing some home charging but more public charging since when away from home i can not Home Charge.

The removal of most of the ECO levies and the over 3 p per kwh should hit in April and any private or public energy supplier should apply or be publicly shamed.

The down rating of VAT to E or Z rate had been touted as going to happen and perhaps we will hear in the Spring Forecast on March 3rd which is less than 3 weeks away.

Be nice to see charging cost of 50p per kwh or less for public charging and 6p or less for charging at home.

22 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Why when the UK is the Wind Farm super power of Europe ?

Plus solar in the UK, solar farms and UK homeowners, is growing exponentially.

I can see electricity being generated for as little as 1P per kwh.

As to how the UK government lifts that price with taxes, charges to upgrade parts of the UK energy supply, particularly the £100B for Hinkley C and Sizewell C, seems to be how we suddenly get prices of 7p per kwh, a seven fold increase.

Fortunately I have the knowledge to build my own solar and battery systems. If the Grid does not want to sell me energy at a low enough price I will make my own electricity. Fortunately Octopus have been doing a great job to produce ultra cheap power to charge up our EV fleet to run them at 2p per mile and that is looking like getting significantly cheaper in the next few weeks.

You live in your own little bubble and not in the real world, it might come as a shock to you, but it has been said before by many people, not everyone has the same unique position in life as you. Honestly you could get yourself a job on the Fully Charged Show and Everything Electric alongside Robert Llewellyn as a presenter........😶‍🌫️

Edited 14 February14 Feb by Graham Butcher

58 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

You live in your own little bubble and not in the real world, it might come as a shock to you, but it has been said before by many people, not everyone has the same unique position in life as you. Honestly you could get yourself a job on the Fully Charged Show and Everything Electric alongside Robert Llewellyn as a presenter........😶‍🌫️

Millions of people in Europe and in fact all over the world are using solar and batteries to get the electricity they need. These people are mainly poor people and those in places where politics and virtual sieges are meaning the people have to innovated to survive.

Whether its Palestine- Gaza, Cuba or many "Third" world countries they are using solar and batteries to survive, keep their phones running and devices that need electricity.

Like my installations these cost pounds and not thousands and make living with modern technology, but without hydrocarbon fuel for vehicles which is being withheld for political power ie Cuba and Gaza, or just prohibitively expensive where sunshine is free.

Google "Balcony solar" and see how solar and battery is helping poor actually every bit as much as those more well off.

Edited 14 February14 Feb by lol-lol

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Millions of people in Europe and in fact all over the world are using solar and batteries to get the electricity they need. These people are mainly poor people and those in places where politics and virtual sieges are meaning the people have to innovated to survive.

Whether its Palestine- Gaza, Cuba or many "Third" world countries they are using solar and batteries to survive, keep their phones running and devices that need electricity.

Like my installations these cost pounds and not thousands and make living with modern technology, but without hydrocarbon fuel for vehicles which is being withheld for political power ie Cuba and Gaza, or just prohibitively expensive where sunshine is free.

Google "Balcony solar" and see how solar and battery is helping poor actually every bit as much as those more well off.

Interesting on a global scale but of very little relevance to the UK, where the harsh reality is that generation and distribution of electricity simply will not be able to keep up with the demand IF the targets for switchover from ICE to EV are even close to being met.