Happy New Year all. I have been gathering quotes for a basic service and cambelt change and I was advised by someone at work that a guy he knows elsewhere in the organisation, runs his own car servicing place and as such offers staff discount.

 

His garage doesn't have a website but his Facebook page describes it as:  A small family firm in the heart of Derbyshire offering car servicing, diagnostics and repair along with welding and fabrication work.

 

Anyway, his email to me reads:

 

I can do a basic service (which for me is an oil and filter change with sump plug plus air filter) for xxxx altogether. 

 

Regarding the timing belt - it’s the 1.4 TFSi engine which technically has a ‘lifetime’ timing belt fitted.  It isn’t actually, but the interval of five years stated by VAG is very conservative and I would advise to save your money and not even consider it until the car is at least six or even seven years old.

 

Any thoughts on this?

6 minutes ago, Doctor_Strange said:

the interval of five years stated by VAG is very conservative and I would advise to save your money and not even consider it until the car is at least six or even seven years old.

Do you feel competent to inspect the belt inside and outside for cracking and/or chunking, and to measure its width? Would yo trust your mate of a mate to do this inspection, and honestly tell you whether he thinks the belt is badly worn?

I'll ask him to have a look at said belt while conducting the service but I just wondered if anyone has actually heard of this lifetime belt and whether his thoughts of 6 or 7 years is reasonable. I know it is stated as 5 years or 100k miles. My car has done 29k miles. 

Sounds like a good garage.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Doctor_Strange said:

I know it is stated as 5 years or 100k miles

 

Where have you seen this stated?

 

Does the car have a hardcopy service book? If so have a look in there to see what the various services at various milages consist of.

 

Are the new belts now Kevlar ?? Hence last longer 

There is an enormous amount of discussion on here regarding cambelt changes on the 1.4Tsi.  Nearly everywhere except this country does cambelt changes much later than 5 years as recommended by VW unless you do 140000km in 5 years.

Edited 1 January, 20224 yr by peter3197

37 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Do you feel competent to inspect the belt inside and outside for cracking and/or chunking, and to measure its width? Would yo trust your mate of a mate to do this inspection, and honestly tell you whether he thinks the belt is badly worn?

 

+1 👍

 

I've perhaps only changed a dozen cam belts in my time, but always felt if I've taken an already tensioned/stretched belt off to invert it and inspect it properly (not at all qualified, just using common sense), then it's false economy, if not madness, to then put that belt back on again.  Potentially asking for trouble.

 

Gaz

 

1 hour ago, Gaz said:

I've taken an already tensioned/stretched belt off to invert it and inspect it properly

You don't have to remove it to check the inside for cracking.

I have the tech file on the new EA211 belts...supposed to last a "lifetime"...& this is why its not in the service schedule for these engines...

 

UNLESS:-

Your country is classed as having "High levels of dust" according to VAG worldwide service schedules....then its renew every 120,000km or 80,000miles.

 

You could accuse VAG UK dealers of ignoring this & using the old service intervals of 5yrs/60,000miles in some of their confusing info..

 

 

I got mine replaced on the "old" intervals, as there has been the odd rare case of the new belts failing already!..

 

To supply & fit a new belt is cheaper than a new engine..& I hope to keep this car for a total of 14yrs...

Edited 1 January, 20224 yr by fabdavrav

2 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

To supply & fit a new belt is cheaper than a new engine..& I hope to keep this car for a total of 14yrs...

Exactly my logic for replacing the cambelt on my previous EA211 1.4TSI after 5 years.

3 hours ago, KenONeill said:

You don't have to remove it to check the inside for cracking.

 

Correct, it runs inverted over the tensioner pulley.

 

I checked the one on my MK1 Octavia up to 250000 miles when I saw the first sign of degradation, it was in fact on the outside of the belt and very visible, some of the circumferential reinforcing cords becoming exposed.

 

I had always paid most attention to the teeth and the root of the teeth which were still OK but if one cord had broken and flailed around it would have been game over.

 

I wasn't quite so blasé with the PD engine.

Edited 1 January, 20224 yr by J.R.

The SKODA Mk3 maintenance manual (albeit an old 2013 version, don't know if anyone has a more recent version?) is here and clear:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh8n0y4sz6jsxcd/Maintenance.pdf?dl=0

 

See page 16/17 for 1.2/1,4 Tsi, and page 24/5 for diesel cambelt maintenance schedule.

 

For the 1.2/14 TSI, the VW EA211 engine ' service training manual' is here:

 

https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-511-new-ea211-petrol-engine-family/

 

Page 13 actually says the camshaft toothed belt is 'maintenance free'.

 

I don't know whether to believe the manufacturer or the dealers, but from a warranty point of view it should be the manufacturer to follow IMHO...

I didn't get mine changed at 5 years, we'll see how it goes!

 

Adelaide Australia and I've mentioned in similar threads that my local dealer first asked whether I wanted the cam belt replaced when booking our 2014 Octavia's 7th annual service.

 

Since our car had done less than 80k km, and I reckon I can count the number of times the engine has exceeded 4k revs in that time on my fingers, I declined the offer. Dealer just said "fair enough, you are not the first and we have not experienced subsequent issues". I presumed they followed the service requirements and checked the belt for wear.

 

Australia is considered a dusty country, especially where I live in the oft quoted 'driest state of the driest continent'. Annual yearly or 15k km services are the only option offered by dealers and seems reasonable with our sometimes high summer temperatures.

 

Since we may now be keeping the car longer than intended I may consider belt replacement in the next couple of years or depending on inspection advice.

Cam belts are maintenance free in the same way as auxiliary drive belts, they are self tensioning, you dont need to oil them, when they break you replace them............................ together with the valves, pistons........................... 🤣

 

If they said it was maintenance free and does not need replacing for the life of the engine that would be another thing although probably again true as they will both expire together!!

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

If they said it was maintenance free and does not need replacing for the life of the engine that would be another thing although probably again true as they will both expire together!!

 

That's exactly what they do say: "Thanks to its high-end material specification, this toothed belt's service life reliably spans the entire life of the vehicle."

 

That from the VW press newsroom, about half way down:

 

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/the-new-golf-das-auto-international-driving-presentation-2797/the-new-golf-powertrain-structure-engines-and-gearboxes-2835

 

(whilst this is referring to the Golf, it is actually the EA211 engine they're talking about).

1 hour ago, robs12 said:

 

That's exactly what they do say: "Thanks to its high-end material specification, this toothed belt's service life reliably spans the entire life of the vehicle."

 

That from the VW press newsroom, about half way down:

 

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/the-new-golf-das-auto-international-driving-presentation-2797/the-new-golf-powertrain-structure-engines-and-gearboxes-2835

 

(whilst this is referring to the Golf, it is actually the EA211 engine they're talking about).

 

 

& that begs the question:- "how many years is "the entire life of the vehicle""???

 

I think you'll end up finding that the nearest answer you'll get from the manufacture is 7yrs max....as that's the designed lifespan on average & has been for a number of years...

My opinion:

 

If it was genuinely a "life of engine" part, you wouldn't be able to get the parts to replace them. It's not like a body panel where a dented one can be repaired or replaced. A damaged cambelt is usually fatal (mechanically). So, it makes sense that as the parts are available you can treat it as a preventative maintenance item. The tricky part is the interval which is why we are here. The issue with car maintenance is the two variables of time and mileage which is an age old discussion.

 

I'm sorry, I don't seem to have added anything useful. Just rambling on.

23 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

 The tricky part is the interval which is why we are here.

... and have been having this discussion/debate for many years as there are many different views.

 

Personally as an engineer I cannot believe that what is basically a rubber belt in an environment subject to vast temperature changes (under the bonnet attached to a lump of metal) cannot survive for the same length of time as the metal parts ('lifetime') and given that expensive damage will happen to the engine if the belt does fail I regard the concept of 'lifetime' as flawed.

 

Whether the change interval should be 5 years, 7 years or other interval is more complex and I certainly cannot see the logic behind Skoda UK suggesting a 5 year interval (shorter than most other Skoda importers) but I went along with the 5 year interval just in case I might need to hope for any 'goodwill' in the vent of a failure - but then I am averse to avoidable risks.

 

Others will have different opinions/views which I 100% respect and hope for the same understanding...

Just my input here but im pretty sure legally 'lifetime' with a car is 100,000 miles. At least this is what is roughly said to be a lifetime component such as BMW ZF gearbox oil and a few VW bits are the same. Ford had a 'lifetime' wet belt setup and that turned into the worst thing ever.

For my own peace of mind id be doing the belt at least at 100,000 miles.

102K and a lot of long critical journeys ahead of me, definitely time for an inspection, thanks for the timely reminder 👍

2 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

... and have been having this discussion/debate for many years as there are many different views.

 

Personally as an engineer I cannot believe that what is basically a rubber belt in an environment subject to vast temperature changes......

......

Others will have different opinions/views which I 100% respect and hope for the same understanding...

 

Likely to be having this discussion for many years to come especially with the reduction in use of ICE making 5he knowledge more diluted.

 

Same here being an engineer I have my theories. One being the legal standpoint of Skoda UK (VAG as a whole or even all UK arms of vehicle manufacturers) instill shorter cambelt regimes to protect themselves against lawsuits. Given the catastrophic potential for a belt failure and the more ready appetite in the UK/US for legal help, I believe they are simply protecting themselves. 

We may also have greater appetite for paying for car maintenance. Our rules and regs for keeping cars road legal are definitely more strict than others around the world. As a result we are preconditioned to spending on cars.

Not me!

2 hours ago, ApertureS said:

Just my input here but im pretty sure legally 'lifetime' with a car is 100,000 miles.

I'm not aware of there being a 'legal' definition of the meaning of 'lifetime' in relation to vehicles, be interested if you could share your source of that information.

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

I'm not aware of there being a 'legal' definition of the meaning of 'lifetime' in relation to vehicles, be interested if you could share your source of that information.

All im basing it off is not a UK thing but i believe in america an item such as a component on a car - because of the high cost must last a 'lifetime' which they define as 100,000 miles so in essence they legally in certain states must last 100,000 miles which is what they deem the life of that car. (although they will go for much longer we all know) 

This is what i was told quite a few years back but ill try and find something to back it up. 

6 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

Personally as an engineer I cannot believe that what is basically a rubber belt in an environment subject to vast temperature changes (under the bonnet attached to a lump of metal) cannot survive for the same length of time as the metal parts

You've really never seen rubber get heat hardened and cracked, or oil contaminated?