1 hour ago, skomaz said:

 

So that would seem to make it significantly more expensive than a traditional ICE vehicle in terms of distance per £ ??

 

So slow down, extend the EV range and continue charging at home. 

Less than a hundred pound spent for 8000 miles! 

There's a point where percent charge at home on EV tariff vs percent charge at public chargers. If you go over that point, you are better off buying dino-juice.

 

Always got to remember, for most people, rapid charging is rare. I used to do it once in a blue moon in Leaf, I don't foresee needing it for our normal day-out in the Tesla, only during actual road trips. So I personally don't care about rapid charging prices, I only care about the service associated with it: many stalls per loc, toilet, restaurant, etc.

 

Also got to remember, destination charging is usually much cheaper or sometimes free if you can get on them.

 

ABC = always be charging.

The difference is very much 'Business users' but not kiddy on ones but actual 'Commercial Travellers' as of the old days,

people that still go up and down the country and across it, places to go, people to see, work to do when they get there and maybe get home at the end of the day or night. 

 

Then there are,

Private users that have to use money they get as income and which was taxed before they got it buying the means to power their vehicle from their own pocket.

29 minutes ago, roottoot said:

The difference is very much 'Business users' but not kiddy on ones but actual 'Commercial Travellers' as of the old days,

people that still go up and down the country and across it, places to go, people to see, work to do when they get there and maybe get home at the end of the day or night. 

 

Then there are,

Private users that have to use money they get as income and which was taxed before they got it buying the means to power their vehicle from their own pocket.

 

The Renault Zoe has achieved over 400 miles in some maximum range exercise, the only problem is this was achieved with an average speed of 20 mph I recall.

 

As long as there is no minimum speeds, which there are not many in the UK I gather, then take it real slow, an electricity grid pricing protest rather than a fuel pricing protest.

A long queue of EVs driving at 30 mph on Motorways and A-road protesting at the extortionate pricing at DC charging stations.

 

Glad to see quite a few of the 22 kWh AC stations are still at 39p a kWh or so, I can get about 2 miles of range added for every minute attached to one of those. 

 

@lol-lolit takes all types,

you are trucking about in your City Car EV thinking about retirement and pensions and investments and going to or from places of work. 

 

Others are just getting on as quickly as they can to do their work & trying to keep their driving licence and can not spend an hour charging when charging is needed and just flash the cash / card.

 

Plenty are giving up EV's because time is money and they are not doing the work in the car while it charges, not making the calls or going online, they need face to face or hands on the job because they do manual work, deliveries etc.

 

PS.

Pull in in your 50 grand plus EV, £30 spent on a proper quick rapid charge and away to the next £100 an hour or more job, 

get as much work in in a day and home or to bed.

Maybe you do not yet have a home with off street parking or want one.

Work life balance. 

Edited 15 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

12 hours ago, roottoot said:

@lol-lolit takes all types, you are trucking about in your City Car EV thinking about retirement and pensions and investments and going to or from places of work. 

Others are just getting on as quickly as they can to do their work & trying to keep their driving licence and can not spend an hour charging when charging is needed and just flash the cash / card.

Plenty are giving up EV's because time is money and they are not doing the work in the car while it charges, not making the calls or going online, they need face to face or hands on the job because they do manual work, deliveries etc.

PS.

Pull in in your 50 grand plus EV, £30 spent on a proper quick rapid charge and away to the next £100 an hour or more job, 

get as much work in in a day and home or to bed.   Maybe you do not yet have a home with off street parking or want one.  Work life balance. 

 

ZE50 Zoe is more than a City car and quite capable of the Worcester to Heathrow and back again in the warmer half of the year but my lad loves it and I have trouble get it off him for him to do his 10 miles there, 10 mile back and we both like the car so much although I did the PCP for only 6k miles a year but did well over 8k in the year.

 

But the diesel Fabia is so good and incredible cheap running costs with its 70 mpg and zero road tax.  With the fuel card for the diesel making the fuel effectively less than 40p a litre so less than 3p a mile but I will see if my company do fulfil my request to swap my diesel fuel card for an EV electricity card. 

 

I do not understand the logic of many EV owners to tank it at 75-80 or move and then spent much longer charging when it is not rocket science to work out that choosing a speed of 65 to 70 actually can do the journey as quick and much cheaper. 

 

It is hard to argue against the logic of running a Tesla over the last decade.  I have the new Renault Megane-e for a couple of days which is looking like a big step on from the Zoe as a motorway car.....   

 

I had a look in the car. Most locations used to be ~52p/kWh before the Email, now most are at 67p/kWh. In the app shows non-members pay 77p/kWh.

 

Although there are a couple quiet locations at just 34p/kWh and non-members pay 54p/kWh.

 

I think reasonably priced compared to others.

http://dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/electric-vehicle-owners-soon-pay-27835670

 

Perth & Kinross Council will be starting to charge to use Public Chargers provided by them from the 1st January 2023.

 

It is a sensible time limit that will apply. 

 

Edited 21 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

That seems very reasonable costs to me. I think free open to all council chargers are unfair to local council tax payers as people who do not contribute to local taxes reap the benefits also. It did feel odd rocking up to a charger, getting 50kW and not paying - I felt like a 'cheeky git' knowing the local council would be footing my bill. I'm not surprised that Local Authorities are moving to a pay to use model. Local Authorities around here are just starting to put chargers in to their car parks and prices are more commercial at 40-55p a kWh. I think most if not all will be happy paying the 30p/kWh price, even those who cannot charge at home.

Edited 21 September, 20223 yr by Luckypants

https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/a-new-vision-for-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-in-scotland

They need to stop rejecting planning for solar farms and battery storage in Perthshire, Angus and other council areas.

 

There are plenty not happy paying 23 pence a kWh in Angus since November 2022, so charge free at Tesco or in Perth & Kinross.

Like i do. 

*Now with Home Tariffs being higher than the Public chargers then less are unhappy, but still like Free or Much Cheapness.*

 

£48 Million plus to CPS / SWARCO /e-Volt,  BP & others, installers, planners, and Councillor visits, also for chargers that are not for public use but Home Carers, NHS, Police etc

and to Councils budgets in 11 years is for a reason as Scotland actually tries to get to lower emissions and pollution like in the most polluted streets in Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen, Edinburgh & Glasgow.

But then they are actually at Bus Stations and Bus stop areas as in Perth. 

 

They as in the Councils & local authorities got sh!t loads of EU Grants etc. and various other millions thrown their way.

Some like P&K Council still have not spent it like with Broxden Park & Rides extension.

 

Dundee City Council has 2 sets of tariffs.  Dundee City Residents who might or might not pay Council Tax and non Dundee City Residents. 

Edited 21 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

There are plenty not happy paying 23 pence a kWh in Angus since November 2022, so charge free at Tesco or in Perth & Kinross.

Like i do. 

*Now with Home Tariffs being higher than the Public chargers then less are unhappy, but still like Free or Much Cheapness.*

 

[SNIP]

 

Dundee City Council has 2 sets of tariffs.  Dundee City Residents who might or might not pay Council Tax and non Dundee City Residents. 

 

 

I did meet a couple of guys who treated getting free charging like a game, planning their use and comparing notes (while plugged in to the free Tesco 22kW). One proudly told me he had done 6000 miles for £90. Fair play if you can get it but it will come to an end soon.

Dundee have the right idea to benefit locals but 20p is still cheaper than home charging for me. Still a bargain in Scotland using CPS chargers.

I boast i have done 35,000 miles with under £150 paid for electric including £40 for 2 CPS cards. 

I might manage to stay under £150 to the end of this year.

 

Once Stirling & Ayrshire North & South start charging to charge i will be paying for electric to drive an EV. 

South Ayrshire has been talking about it for over a year and people at Stirling Park & Ride tell me it will end soon.

 

Good. and the sooner there are 100 kW chargers available the better. 

Commercial or Council provided and tax payer subsidised with fees paid and proper maintenance & reliability.

 

CPS cards and apps are often not reliable and tapping a Debit or Credit card at a CPS charger can be simple, and then you pay right there and then and do not wait weeks for the CPS Account and payment.

 

 

Edited 21 September, 20223 yr by roottoot

Gridserve now also increasing price, to 66p at most, 64p at "electric forecourt".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575101105054154752

 

25 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Gridserve now also increasing price, to 66p at most, 64p at "electric forecourt".

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575101105054154752

 

 

Ahh but "only" 49 p for the AC chargers and for the unique Zoe that means 22 kWh at that rate.      Megane-e is 22 kWh AC charger as well.  Well done Renault !!! 

Low Power charging

Power: up to 22kW     Connector types: Type 2     Our Low Power chargers provide even more EV charging flexibility as they use a Type 2 connector and provide a maximum output of 22kW. Type 2 charge ports are featured on most plug-in electric vehicles, regardless of age, which is why you’ll find them at the vast majority of our Electric Hubs. We also offer both tethered and untethered units at our GRIDSERVE Electric Forecourts® at this pricing.

49p/kWh

https://www.gridserve.com/our-pricing/

 

Ah yes, that's right, 22kW is cheapest. Sorry, forgot to mention that.

Hopefully more cars join this and opens the door for people who is willing to wait a bit longer or willing to move their car after reaching ~50% and no longer making full use of the ultra-rapid chargers

 

Edited 29 September, 20223 yr by wyx087

On 20/09/2022 at 15:25, wyx087 said:

I had a look in the car. Most locations used to be ~52p/kWh before the Email, now most are at 67p/kWh. In the app shows non-members pay 77p/kWh.

 

Although there are a couple quiet locations at just 34p/kWh and non-members pay 54p/kWh.

 

I think reasonably priced compared to others.

 

It's not unreasonable, but if your derv does 12.5MPL (Approx 56PG) it's costing say £1.80 per 13.5miles currently.

At the 67p/kWh rate, lets say you're getting a somewhat generous 4.5 miles per kWh (It is a tesla and they're efficient), then it's £1.86 for the same 12.5 miles.

 

Now there are a lot of factors, but that's not a compelling case to spend 40/50/80k going electric.

It's really sad, but until either the price of an EV drops to that or an ICE car or on the road charging becomes substantially cheaper than ICE it's going to be a very hard sell to your average motorist who does long trips.

 

As a second car, which can do a real 100-200 miles for going around town and the local area then it would make sense as you go out full, you come home and charge. That however assumes you have access to cheap charging or solar when you need it.

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

It's really sad, but until either the price of an EV drops to that or an ICE car or on the road charging becomes substantially cheaper than ICE it's going to be a very hard sell to your average motorist who does long trips.

Only if regularly doing long trips. 

 

As long as (something like) over half of charging is done at home on EV tariff, you'll see a running cost reduction. Overwhelmingly vast majority of driving start from home seems like a normal thing to do for most people....... ?

 

I've been on day-out trips that would have been driving the diesel car instead of Leaf. I've yet to use more than 60% of the battery on any of the day-out trips. Apart from trying out supercharging, I've not visited any public charging infrastructure during first month of long range EV ownership. That's with just 1 charge point exclusively using 4 hours cheap period for 2 EV's. 

 

So I think you'd have to be going on more than 400 miles trips more than twice a week to make EV unattractive from cost perspective. 

 

 

 

Also at quiet supercharger locations like at the hotel near Heathrow T5, the price is 36p/kWh for 24 (V3 IIRC) charging stalls. Same as motorway petrol stations, always worth looking ahead and see if there's cheaper alternative locations.

Around M1 and M25, I see Tesla has 3 more locations planned for Q1 2023, probably due to South Mimms is always near capacity. 

Edited 3 October, 20223 yr by wyx087

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Only if regularly doing long trips. 

 

As long as (something like) over half of charging is done at home on EV tariff, you'll see a running cost reduction. Overwhelmingly vast majority of driving start from home seems like a normal thing to do for most people....... ?

Yes, but you don’t need to spend 50k so it cancels the savings out and then some. 
 

Not trying to be difficult but the big sell was they’re expensive but so cheap to run. Now that’s not true all the time you will have a much harder dell convincing your average punter to part with a big lump up front.

 

 

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

 

I've been on day-out trips that would have been driving the diesel car instead of Leaf. I've yet to use more than 60% of the battery on any of the day-out trips. Apart from trying out supercharging, I've not visited any public charging infrastructure during first month of long range EV ownership. That's with just 1 charge point exclusively using 4 hours cheap period for 2 EV's. 

 

So I think you'd have to be going on more than 400 miles trips more than twice a week to make EV unattractive from cost perspective. 

 

 

 

Also at quiet supercharger locations like at the hotel near Heathrow T5, the price is 36p/kWh for 24 (V3 IIRC) charging stalls. Same as motorway petrol stations, always worth looking ahead and see if there's cheaper alternative locations.

Around M1 and M25, I see Tesla has 3 more locations planned for Q1 2023, probably due to South Mimms is always near capacity. 

 

Again you’re forgetting the up front extra cost of the EV.

As long as they can get Company / Business users and Public Services drivers in first and then those vehicles on the used market things will be going well.

 

The issue is not the shortage of people that will go EV's it is the shortage of product. 

 

Now there is under 8 years now to buy new ICE vehicles in the UK that are not electrified in some way. 

 

http://carmagazine.co.uk/electric/ev-sales-figures-uk

 

 

Edited 3 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

I think they’ll cop out and extend hybrids, probably only range extender types.

Some hybrids are being extended to 2035;

They will not be kiddy on ones with little range running on electric.

 

http://confused.com/car-insurance/guides/new-petrol-and-diesel-car-ban    The manufacturers need to try harder, maybe forget performance of the speed and concentrate on efficiency, range. 

 

Edited 3 October, 20223 yr by roottoot

4 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Yes, but you don’t need to spend 50k so it cancels the savings out and then some. 
 

Not trying to be difficult but the big sell was they’re expensive but so cheap to run. Now that’s not true all the time you will have a much harder dell convincing your average punter to part with a big lump up front.

 

 

 

Again you’re forgetting the up front extra cost of the EV.

I am saying they are still very cheap to run as long as you can charge on EV tariff, nothing has changed from 2017 when I got Leaf to now.

 

On more upfront costs, looking at used EV prices, I don't think owning an EV will be a costly experience thanks to high residual values and ever higher demand for used EV's. Same as Leaf, I'm pretty confident my Model Y will effectively be riding the wave front of limited used supply curve for a highly reputable car. Just look at prices for cheapest used Model 3.

 

Here's a good example, my Nissan Leaf was just under £9000 from main dealer back in 2017. Now asking price is higher for a slightly older car at an indie dealer: https://www.speakev.com/threads/for...-acenta-24kwh-3-3kw-charger-57k-miles.172501/

 

Another case in point: I sold my Skoda Octavia diesel for £5200 to a dealer, advertised privately and all the questions were "is it ULEZ compliant?" zero interest after that. I am confident I can sell my Nissan Leaf for well over £8k to a dealer. In fact, motorway are offering £8,739 for the Leaf while £5000 for Octy. Both were bought in 2017 for similar price. Granted, current used market is crazy, but I wouldn't expect such a huge difference between cars that used to worth so similar.

 

So I can only put it down to changing public perception that created ever increasing demand. When demand for cheap used EV out strip a very limited supply......

PodPoint 50kW Rapid, 40 pence a kWh now.     Well at the LIDL I was charging at.    I went to it instead of Edinburgh park and ride CPS / BP chargers at 35 pence a kWh not knowing of this PodPoint increase until I had charged with 20 kWh.   Now at the airport using a fast chargers to top up to 100% @25 pence a kWh. 

Shell Recharge up by 20 pence a kWh.  34% increase I am reading.   85 pence on 150 kW chargers.  79 pence a kWh on a 50 kW.   Maybe someone can link properly.  Pathetic phone connection here at Edinburgh Airport.  Un-bloody believable.   Fast charger cut out twice.  What use is that at a park and ride,?   

Edited 16 October, 20223 yr by roottoot