shallow sump question

[higgins57]

im going to be fitting a shallow sump to my fabia soon and i am wondering if a shallow sump requires less oil than the standard one?  in my head this seems like a stupid question but id imagine that i can stick to using the dipstick as normal. 

even though the darkside shallow sump may hold less oil so long as the dipstick reads on the max line it should be ok right?

cheers

[sepulchrave]

2 minutes ago, higgins57 said:

im going to be fitting a shallow sump to my fabia soon and i am wondering if a shallow sump requires less oil than the standard one?  in my head this seems like a stupid question but id imagine that i can stick to using the dipstick as normal. 

even though the darkside shallow sump may hold less oil so long as the dipstick reads on the max line it should be ok right?

cheers

 

No, the dipstick doesn't measure the depth of oil in the sump, only the level, so it doesn't make any difference.

[higgins57]

so stick to putting 4.3l of oil as i normally would? and the dipstick will read the same?

cheers mate

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, higgins57 said:

so stick to putting 4.3l of oil as i normally would? and the dipstick will read the same?

cheers mate

 

I've no idea what the capacity of the new sump will be, the point is the level will be the same because that's dictated by the crank height, you don't want the crank and rod caps touching the surface of the oil leading to parasitic windage losses and oil foaming.

 

Put oil in it until it's at the correct level on the dipstick ok.

[Ootohere]

@higgins57just how much less oil will there be for the cooling that the normal quantity of oil provides.

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

@higgins57just how much less oil will there be for the cooling that the normal quantity of oil provides.

 

I doubt the capacity is different, merely the shape.

 

There's a lot of overthinking going on in here!

[Ootohere]

No doubt!   But thinking costs nothing   If the capacity is not less than someone running a low quantity because they wait for warning lights then that might be fair enough. 

[AnnoyingPentium]

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

But thinking costs nothing.

 

Also quite a dangerous thing, George.

[Lofty]

22 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

I doubt the capacity is different, merely the shape.

 

There's a lot of overthinking going on in here!

 

The capacity is a fair bit different looking at the pics, so i imagine putting the suggested amount of 4.3 litres of oil in will see it register up higher on the dipstick.

 

The question as to if that oil level is then too high and the crank will be splashing into it is one i don't have the answer to, but the post above about that being a bad thing is quite right.

 

 

[sepulchrave]

On 03/04/2022 at 12:10, sepulchrave said:

Put oil in it until it's at the correct level on the dipstick ok.

 

Did you miss that part?

 

6 hours ago, Lofty said:

The capacity is a fair bit different looking at the pics, so i imagine putting the suggested amount of 4.3 litres of oil in will see it register up higher on the dipstick.

 

Ah, volumetric estimation by looking at different pictures, a rare skill indeed.

[KeithCheetham]

Strongly suggest taking this up with Darkside as they will be the people you need to speak too if there are any issues. Even pictures of each may will provide an answer on cross sectional area which with the reduction in depth may allow a quick/simple calculation. Is there a specific reason for looking to fit one of these?

[Lofty]

14 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Did you miss that part?

 

 

Ah, volumetric estimation by looking at different pictures, a rare skill indeed.

The shallow steel bottomed sumps are 11mm lower in overall height than the standard cast aluminium sumps so yes, despite your ever present sarcasm the volume of liquid that it can hold will be less. You will of course know with your expert knowledge that the shallow sumps do not counteract this reduction in capacity by being wider at any point, or longer at any point.

 

Again using your massive brain, putting a fixed amount of oil into a car that has changed from alloy to shallow sump will see it register high on the dipstick. If it takes 4.3 litres of oil in a standard sump to get it to the max mark on the dipstick, then it obviously follows that you'll need less oil in a shallow sump to get to the same max mark. 

 

You will of course know exactly how far above the static oil level the crank is on a PD i assume, especially with the endless knowledge you bestow all over?

 

But you know all of this so why come across with such blatent sarcasm? It's not funny now, and never has been. 

 

Your belittling manner gets tiring tbh, especially when folks are trying to help.

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, Lofty said:

The shallow steel bottomed sumps are 11mm lower in overall height than the standard cast aluminium sumps so yes, despite your ever present sarcasm the volume of liquid that it can hold will be less. You will of course know with your expert knowledge that the shallow sumps do not counteract this reduction in capacity by being wider at any point, or longer at any point.

 

Again using your massive brain, putting a fixed amount of oil into a car that has changed from alloy to shallow sump will see it register high on the dipstick. If it takes 4.3 litres of oil in a standard sump to get it to the max mark on the dipstick, then it obviously follows that you'll need less oil in a shallow sump to get to the same max mark. 

 

You will of course know exactly how far above the static oil level the crank is on a PD i assume, especially with the endless knowledge you bestow all over?

 

But you know all of this so why come across with such blatent sarcasm? It's not funny now, and never has been. 

 

Your belittling manner gets tiring tbh, especially when folks are trying to help.

 

Really?

[higgins57]

this got a bit toxic didnt it haha.

 

anyway i fitted the shallow sump and it ended up taking about 4.4-4.5 litres before reading max on the dipstick.  which im guessing is because the sump was completely dry, compared to a normal oil change when theres always a tiny bit left over.  I know that the amount of oil i put in is accurate as i used a pump with an electronic gauge. ive had no problems so far so im happy with that, hopefully this can help someone in the future👍

[sepulchrave]

3 hours ago, higgins57 said:

this got a bit toxic didnt it haha.

 

anyway i fitted the shallow sump and it ended up taking about 4.4-4.5 litres before reading max on the dipstick.  which im guessing is because the sump was completely dry, compared to a normal oil change when theres always a tiny bit left over.  I know that the amount of oil i put in is accurate as i used a pump with an electronic gauge. ive had no problems so far so im happy with that, hopefully this can help someone in the future👍

 

Nah, you don't know what this lot are like when they get really toxic, I knew you'd be ok with the oil capacity, I was just trying to reassure you really. As a practicing engineer I've gotten used to the theorycrafting from the armchair experts, it's like water off a ducks back these days.