Hi I have a VRS with a warranty and the oil was clean and on full mark when bought.

Less than a 500 miles on the oil went black and topped up with handbook recommended oil to VW specs.

 

I think so far I have put 1.5 ltrs in 700miles so assuming it was correctly read 3ltr per 1000 miles is disappearing.

I have been doing 20-50mile round trips and can see soot on tail pipe like a wood burning stove.

 

Any advice on how to sort this as emailed trader and warranty company.

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare
Wrong

The pinned thread is at the top of the page for 1.8 & 2.0 TSI engine failures. 

 

Was it at the full mark when at normal operating temp and the car on the flat and dipped a few minutes after being stopped?      If using excessive oil as yours is the. Skoda / VW group have an official way of testing oil.   Any mechanic or tech can measure oil use.  The official way is new oil and filter and the oil drained and weighed. 856 grams a litre.  Then the miles driven and oil dropped and weighed.   Waste of time with yours.  Obviously it has an issue.  Talk today with the seller and get your concern in writing.  Even reject the car.  They have a right to try and fix things though.       Remember and post here which engine you have.  And the miles it has done.    vRS come TSI and TDI and TDI oil can get dirty quick. 

 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

63k on a 2.0 petrol vrs 2011 and have put 700 miles on it as hospital and weekend use as work vehicle rest of time.

Warmed up and as manual dipstick instructions 1.5 ltr of VW spec oil has evaporated.

Soot on exhaust tips makes me think it has burnt it.

I have contacted trader who says warranty company- but £500 limit per claim and local garages seem to not want to get involved.

 

The warranty company are saying account with Halfords auto centre's- is it worth getting their opinion if, I don't have to pay out?

You can understand that because it is going to be them losing money as the Trader. 

They took in a bad trade in or bought it, they are the ones with a big problem.

 

They sold a lemon to you. 

How long have you had it?   You have consumer rights which beat a crappy warranty.

Best get the car back to them then.   

They sold you the one with a gubbed engine.

 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

The warranty is a distraction. It's a way for them to edit (try to) dodge the consumer rights. Blind you with small print and say the excess is your problem!!

 

The key is how long have you had the vehicle. Under 30 days right to reject. over 30 days they can fix if they can, after 6 months onus falls onto you to prove car was faulty or engineered with a fault when purchased. * check consumer law exactly, that is my recall of the consumer rights act.

 

I had a 2011 FL vRS petrol. Same engine as yours. I bought it with 34k miles and sold it with 70k miles to a dentist after 5 years, as his everyday commuter as he didn't want to put too many miles on his good cars!.  I never put more than 0.5 to 1l in between annual 7k mile services.  It goes to show it is not normal and different driving or servicing can alter the longevity.  Fixed service regime annually much better for these engines. No more than 6 or 7k miles between services ideally.

 

If you are under 30 days it may be best to reject the car, The fix be it a turbo or worse, rings and pistons and rebuild is not going to be cheap, easy or fast and could you trust the garage you bought from to do a proper job. Or just use their mates garage to cover the problem up for a few months.....

 

Edit. there are other things to check. Oil leaks, pcv fine oil separator often fails, etc but that is quite a lot of oil.  And again would you commission the investigation or the dealer. If the latter would you trust them.  

 

 

 

2 hours ago, MrSquare said:

63k on a 2.0 petrol vrs 2011 and have put 700 miles on it as hospital and weekend use as work vehicle rest of time.

Warmed up and as manual dipstick instructions 1.5 ltr of VW spec oil has evaporated.

Soot on exhaust tips makes me think it has burnt it.

I have contacted trader who says warranty company- but £500 limit per claim and local garages seem to not want to get involved.

 

The warranty company are saying account with Halfords auto centre's- is it worth getting their opinion if, I don't have to pay out?

 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by TheClient

All noted will check when I get home when I bought it, it's just over a month from memory.

 

The warranty company said to choose a local garage, my local MOT garage didn't want to know and neither did the one up the road- they said didn't do warranty work as trouble getting paid.

 

I have contacted the warranty company and they have an account with Halfords auto centre's.

I have it booked in with them at Warranty companies expense. (As confirmed by chap at Halfords)

I don't think Halfords would do anything but look for fault and chargeable work)

 

I'm going to write a letter and send it recorded delivery so the date is logged as raising the issue.

 

I have looked round and can't see any external explanation of where 3 ltr of oil would go.

 

The soot I removed off exhaust tips makes me think it's been burnt😕

 

Shame as I really like the car, it's in nice condition as well cosmetically.

 

Does that mean citizens advice my next port of call as it sounds like the trader liable if warranty won't fix it.

 

Thanks for pointers

 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare

?

Who is the Warranty Company?

 

A £500 limit is not going to get near to fixing the issue.  

 

The oil is getting burned along with the petrol.  EDIT.

?

Are you getting a very good MPG while using up loads of oil?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/page/75  Sadly you have not struck lucky. 

 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

Petrol it's doing 28-33mpg if the dash correct.

https://www.autoguardwarranties.com/

37 days ownership, I have contacted trader via Facebook and will follow up with a recorded letter.

 

I have read "satisfactory quality and fit for purpose" I bought it retail as a consumer and have a reciept in my name from the company.( So I understand that this is what I need)

 

Deeply disappointed that full service history etc from what I understand your saying- at best a turbo and at worst a engine.

 

Shocking in less than 1000 miles thought I had a nice car.

 

Life is hard enough without this as looks ££££££££

☹️

 

 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare

35 minutes ago, roottoot said:

The oil is getting burned along with the diesel which is heavy oil. 

 

3 hours ago, MrSquare said:

63k on a 2.0 petrol vrs 2011

 

Is this the same car as on page 75 of this thread from you?

 

Thanks, AG Falco

I haven't had the tensioner done yet as I spoke with Skoda dealer who said small number of failures over hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

No recall or such listed.

 

They were of the opinion that a small amount of people making a lot of noise- I had started to save up for a chain and tensioner replacement.

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare

@AGFalcoas i typed that my brain was not engaged. Too many oil threads today. 

 

@MrSquareWas that a Master Tech at a dealership you spoke to? Someone actually from the workshop!

That was the issue with Main Dealership staff and Skoda Customer Services, 

years of denial.  

Saying it was overblown and do not listen to forums as people only go there with problems.  Turned out they were wrong. 

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by roottoot

At this point I'm totally demoralised.

 

I'm hopeful that Halfords Auto Centre will just say what they find- I couldn't find 3 ltrs of oil on undertray or splashed underneath.

I therefore conclude it has been burnt.

 

I haven't been to the Halfords centre, I don't know them- so hope a report that just sets out the facts impartially

Edited 19 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare

4 hours ago, MrSquare said:

All noted will check when I get home when I bought it, it's just over a month from memory.

 

The warranty company said to choose a local garage, my local MOT garage didn't want to know and neither did the one up the road- they said didn't do warranty work as trouble getting paid.

 

I have contacted the warranty company and they have an account with Halfords auto centre's.

I have it booked in with them at Warranty companies expense. (As confirmed by chap at Halfords)

I don't think Halfords would do anything but look for fault and chargeable work)

 

I'm going to write a letter and send it recorded delivery so the date is logged as raising the issue.

 

I have looked round and can't see any external explanation of where 3 ltr of oil would go.

 

The soot I removed off exhaust tips makes me think it's been burnt😕

 

Shame as I really like the car, it's in nice condition as well cosmetically.

 

Does that mean citizens advice my next port of call as it sounds like the trader liable if warranty won't fix it.

 

Thanks for pointers

 

 

Its a cr@p situation. See what halfords say but the underlying cause and fix is likely to be way over their expertise.

 

They are really complicated engines to work on.

 

The early edition  tensioner were a very real problem. Who knows what the failure rate was except maybe vw themselves but it was enough to make press as a widespread issue across vag marques .

 

It's not guaranteed to happen by a certain mileage,but on an early edition tensioner it was simply a matter of when not if...  The rathchet teeth would break or spring clip pop off  That, combined with chains that stretched was a recipe for carnage. It if came your way. 

 

As to your problem. You need to be firm. And well versed in your rights.  And as you have done keep records in writing and even note phonecalls...

 

If you raised issue before 30 days that may welk give you rights to reject. 

 

 

If not, then under the law they can repair. But if you make it clear you want a full assessment, report and strip down and repair by a dealer or certified vw garage, it will start to scare the selling dealer. Your hope here is if you are going to be thorough and demanding it will be easier for them to accept a return.. 

 

Thank you for advice.

 

1999/44/EC as adopted into domestic legislation before we left eu from what I have read and this

 

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#3-final-right-to-reject-–-the-first-six-months

 

Seems first six months don't have to prove fault if I understand correctly.

 

Hopefully Halfords will back up 3 ltr of oil can't disappear without a puddle unless burnt.

 

 

To say I'm gutted is an understatement, I suspect engine failure will be the outcome from advice and reading this evening in  vain hope it could be something simple.

 

16 hours ago, MrSquare said:

Thank you for advice.

 

1999/44/EC as adopted into domestic legislation before we left eu from what I have read and this

 

https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/rejecting-a-car/#3-final-right-to-reject-–-the-first-six-months

 

Seems first six months don't have to prove fault if I understand correctly.

 

Hopefully Halfords will back up 3 ltr of oil can't disappear without a puddle unless burnt.

 

 

To say I'm gutted is an understatement, I suspect engine failure will be the outcome from advice and reading this evening in  vain hope it could be something simple.

 

I thought it was the consumer rights act 2015 that took over from the sale of goods act.  But in any case the provisions may be aligned.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/23/enacted

 

Yes, I would say the oil usage has been present from day 1. So the fault is there from day 1.  The trouble is you haven't realised until right at the 30 day period as you've driven relatively few miles. Not enough to confirm the oil usage until very close to expiry. I'd also raise that as a talking point with the selling dealer when you ask to reject.

 

6 months is assumed to be sold with fault unless selling dealer can prove otherwise. With so few miles driven and a likely significant engine problem the law is likely in our favour there.

 

Technically they have one attempt to repair. But unless you trust what they are going to do and who they are going to use and the parts they will replace with new I would push for rejecting being the easier option for the dealer to honour and better from your side.

 

The issue is, will they try to cover up with a minor repair or some magic oil sealer and hope it gets the car to 7 months.  Then you've got to prove the linkage to the existing repaired fault, which may not be impossible but it turns the responsibility back to you in establishing everything.

 

I'm also doubtful Halfords will give you much to run with and they haven't seen / measured the oil usage themselves, which you would want to establish independently if needing to rely on any reports. But the facts are you know it is using excessive oil and you know it is more than likely going to be a significant fault and the fault is assumed to have been there from the start.

 

Conversation with the selling dealer required to establish if they will accept rejection. If not, then what repair are they offering. Make it clear you want detail of what is done. Make it easier for them to accept rejection.  Whatever, they say don't get into the warranty discussion, excesses, max cover it is a distraction and completely separate to the statutory rights.

 

 

Excellent advice, the dealer told me they don't do repairs and want to go with warranty company for repair.

 

As the warranty company are paying Halfords and I have had a contact with dealer and a response.

 

Can my point be this that Halfords will look at car end of the week- I have no connection and neither does dealer to this branch or company so as independent as possible.

 

I expect that the outcome will be what we all now expect reading hours and hours on this- pistons and rings or a replacement engine to resolve the oil loss.

 

So Friday I should have an outcome and the cost will exceed warranty coverage and what dealer will pay out of pocket.

 

So reject the car as not of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose armed with FOC to me Halfords report they say will take 1.5 hours to complete.

 

I found BBC  watchdog Audi UK TFSI  recall.

Is there  any other supporting evidence I can put with a recorded delivery letter?

 

I think car was serviced and traded in with a problem as a spare coil pack in the boot area with tyre.

 

The trader said he only drove it up the road and put it up for sale- I believe this is honest, but I shouldn't have to take a hit when dealer liability.

 

A very knowledgeable and great forum 🙂, thank you for help with a disaster not of my making.☹️

 

Gutted as got a spare and a load liner for it too.

 

 

3 hours ago, MrSquare said:

Excellent advice, the dealer told me they don't do repairs and want to go with warranty company for repair.

 

As the warranty company are paying Halfords and I have had a contact with dealer and a response.

 

Can my point be this that Halfords will look at car end of the week- I have no connection and neither does dealer to this branch or company so as independent as possible.

 

I expect that the outcome will be what we all now expect reading hours and hours on this- pistons and rings or a replacement engine to resolve the oil loss.

 

So reject the car as not of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose armed with FOC to me Halfords report they say will take 1.5 hours to complete.

 

I found BBC  watchdog Audi UK TFSI  recall.

Is there  any other supporting evidence I can put with a recorded delivery letter?

 

I think car was serviced and traded in with a problem as a spare coil pack in the boot area with tyre.

 

The trader said he only drove it up the road and put it up for sale- I believe this is honest, but I shouldn't have to take a hit when dealer liability.

 

 

 

A couple of things.

 

1. I can't see you will get much from Halfords.  And I wouldn't be participating in the warranty claim process. You are not obliged to and it is in addition to the statutory consumer rights. Usually lots of hoops, push back, excesses, max claims etc. It just very rarely works out.  But if you are just going with a preliminary assessment ok. But whose paying the excess... And what if they say all is fine, no evidence of a problem.  It has happended before. Ultimately, I can't see you are going to get a lot from it.

 

You don't need an expert opinion to prove the oil usage. You have experienced and reported it. It is up to the dealer to disprove it and they won't be able to.  If you really wanted to you could pay skoda or rated independent for an "oil consumption test" before returning vehicle as faulty.

 

2. There are many posts covering the oil consumption issues on the 1.8 and 2.0tsi.  The 1.8 seems to be more widely criticised but it could be just the in service volumes of the motor.  But it might add some context for the dealer, for info only, but it doesn't explain your vehicle fault until it can be established. Just because say 10% or 20% for example, of the engines between 2009 and 2011 have had oil ring clogging and excessive oil consumption doesn't automatically mean yours does. But I think it likely it does.  The only fault context you need to provide is the excessive oil consumption witnessed over the first 30 days.

 

3.  It is not the selling dealers choice to decide that they do not do repairs. In that case, reject and refund. You have no obligation to pursue a warranty claim. It does not extinguish statutory rights.

 

4. Regarding fairness. It is a difficult situation but one which is clearly laid out in law. Yes, you may be correct, the dealer may have test driven, visually inspected and put up for sale. But that is his risk,  as the law makes him liable for fitness, satisfactory quality and (major) fault free in 6 months anyway. They have the motor industry experience, they could research, inspect, test vehicle,  they sold you a faulty car, it is unfortunate but it is there responsibility solely.  You do not get the same rights when buying privately.

 

The AA has a decent summary of rights. You probably know all this by now though.

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

 

 

 

 

OK so I'm going with the following dealer had a it as a trade in, they didn't drive it and 3ltr of oil in 700miles the defect present at the time as known it seems oil scraper ring/piston issues on watchdog and the like.  I thought service history, mileage, warranty and legislation which I knew from a radio advert to a small degree- but not an expert as I work in construction. 

 

I haven't been sleeping as trying to get my head round the situation and the great advice so far. 

 

1) Halfords can look at it as warranty company paying the bill - ask for copy of findings or a Subject Access Request if needed as the oil I would imagine at 3 ltrs would be  everywhere on under tray etc friend and brother looked and from drive no evidence of massive oil leak. 

 

2)Sales of goods act, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eudr/1999/44/contents /

Consumer rights act 2015  / Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 breach of contract and not of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose for consideration paid. 

3) The dealer can refund the purchase price as I rejected car and I will take as a life lesson (hopefully) 

4) Will use Government Money Claim Online and take legal action to recover costs if not forthcoming. 

 

😳 I'm just gutted by whole situation and hope the dealer is as reasonable as can be expected. 

 

Thank you for your Help

Hi. Oh. It's not good when you can't sleep. Try not to worry. I would say to be fair, none of this is really your fault. It can catch experienced motor traders out.

 

Oh and vw aren't the only ones to have some longer term faults that are difficult to diagnose.

 

All you can do is research the car model and the engine type / code on forums and buy from a reputable dealer.

 

Question. Did you pay by credit or debit card? 

 

Yes, you should but something in writing as soon as possible confirming when the fault was raised and previous discussion.

 

That;

1. The car has a significant oil consumption fault of x litres per 1000 miles.

2. The car is not of satisfactory quality.

3. Had it been totally clear during the first 30 days you would of rejected vehicle. But limited mileage in first 30 days prevented this.

4. The fault is presumed to be there from purchase. 

 

5. The warranty does not extinguish consumer rights.

 

6. You don't wish to proceed with a warranty claim, repair.

 

As you, the dealer have said on xx you do not repair vehicles, only warranty claims, I would like to return the vehicle.

 

I will be dropping the vehicle and keys to you on xx x  and hand back the log book.

 

I expect a refund of purchase price on the same day. 

 

Failure to do so, will invoke legal proceedings and is likely to add to my claimed costs.  

 

 

Okay well here we go:-

 

 

Halfords have looked and gearbox leak and damaged plug or something to do with gearbox - they are saying it looks like gearbox has been out.

 

Confirmed rear wiper motor needs replacing as failed- warranty may or may not pay.

 

They have had a look for engine oil, the Manager Rob said no external oil leaks and 1ltr per 1000 miles is max- what I put in exceeds this so it's disappearing in excess.

 

Some of the items may be covered by warranty and some the cost will exceed coverage.

 

I took time off work to get the car looked at and thought Halfords were as independent as possible as never been to them before.

 

Armed with the facts that the warranty is an additional point that covers dealer as much as me-But doesn't exempt dealer from consumer legislation.

 

So first the dealer said only warranty, then claims no money etc.

 

I explained that I think the dealer and then myself are a victim of previous owner- looked like we were going to return the car tomorrow for a refund.

 

Dealer said would take up with previous owner- so maybe another trader? Who knows

 

Now it appears legislation doesn't Matter to them and accused of xyz - explained I don't buy items and while used cars are used cars- I didn't buy a discounted car with faults on paperwork requiring a reconditioned engine.

 

It's not reasonable to pay thousands and then expected to pay for an engine rebuild in 700 miles.

 

They started playing games,so I have said "why would I ask for faults repaired, get it assessed and spend money on a car on boot liner and spare wheel kit"

 

They can either refund in full tomorrow or report written evidence to trading standards  of their consumer protection legislation avoidance and issue legal proceedings.

 

As a consumer I thought that trader was experienced in their profession and consumer legislation.

 

I really don't get the behaviour that I would buy a car, buy accessories and take time off work to get a fault fixed- somehow my fault?

 

700 miles I gain nothing but a lot of hassle and loss.

 

☹️

2 hours ago, MrSquare said:

Now it appears legislation doesn't Matter to them and accused of xyz - explained I don't buy items and while used cars are used cars- I didn't buy a discounted car with faults on paperwork requiring a reconditioned engine.

 

2 hours ago, MrSquare said:

I really don't get the behaviour that I would buy a car, buy accessories and take time off work to get a fault fixed- somehow my fault?

You are talking in riddles and not making any sense, what has the selling dealer actually said to your request to return the vehicle?

I will try again.

 

Dealer I don't do repairs take it to warranty company.

 

Warranty company we cover some items upto £500.

( Dealer must know £500 limit too low for engine or gearbox failure and shows clear character to avoid any liability)

 

Booked into Halfords Auto Centre and warranty company paid.

 

Main issue engine oil consumption no further investigation as exceeds warranty coverage cost.

 

Existing gearbox wiring and Damage / leak - if pre existing not covered or exceeds coverage.

 

Dealer  told all this, says warranty company liable.

 

Dealer abusive in writing

 

dealer then says no money to refund.

 

Dealer then appears to conceed the vehicle has a major fault and returnable.

 

Dealer then decides:- 

that as my partner car uses same oil- I don't have a reciept as can right spec from ages ago.

Suddenly I have no proof of oil loss.

 

Dealer not interested in contacting Halfords for report on oil loss or issues not covered by warranty or beyond warranty limit.

 

At which point they have broken the legislation I have received guidance on multiple acts including unfair commercial practices act.

 

So as it stands there is enough to reject the vehicle and take legal action against the trader

 

Guidance aimed at business to help them understand consumer rights on misleading or aggressive selling in the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Regulations 2014. It also provides guidance on what action consumers may be able to take against them.

 

These regulations allow consumers to seek redress from traders by bringing their own private actions in the civil courts. The rights came into force on 1 October 2014.

 

I guess that instruction of legal proceedings is the next step with trading standards as all in writing.

 

A £500 limit per claim the trader believes exempts them from legislation.

 

So unless the trader decision to avoid court, I'm stuck with car until court resolution.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 22 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare

Ok well I feel totally demoralised, We took the car back and after discussion received a refund and dealer will process v5.

 

I left the spare wheel and boot liner as I want to forget the experience and didn't want a reminder.

 

Foolishly I didn't get document number, so need to cancel tax, not sure how? Do I just cancel direct debit?

 

I'm sure the dealer didn't know the oil usage and bought it from a contact who it seems drove it 3 miles a day from what we gather-maybe this is something to do with horrific consumption during my ownership and longer journeys?

 

Not sure what to do next as VRS a very nice car and I thought I had a good one, but the oil consumption issues frightening. 

 

So I am left wondering what to do for transport☹️ ownership seems cheaper than leasing- but sleepless nights etc have made me unsure.

 

Thanks for your help, pointers etc

Edited 23 April, 20224 yr by MrSquare

1 hour ago, MrSquare said:

Ok well I feel totally demoralised, We took the car back and after discussion received a refund and dealer will process v5.

 

I left the spare wheel and boot liner as I want to forget the experience and didn't want a reminder.

 

Foolishly I didn't get document number, so need to cancel tax, not sure how? Do I just cancel direct debit?

 

I'm sure the dealer didn't know the oil usage and bought it from a contact who it seems drove it 3 miles a day from what we gather-maybe this is something to do with horrific consumption during my ownership and longer journeys?

 

Not sure what to do next as VRS a very nice car and I thought I had a good one, but the oil consumption issues frightening. 

 

So I am left wondering what to do for transport☹️ ownership seems cheaper than leasing- but sleepless nights etc have made me unsure.

 

Thanks for your help, pointers etc

Hey. I wouldn't feel demoralised.

 

You got a full refund? Result. That's what you were entitled to.

 

Some sleepless nights and hassle but behind you now. A few ££ in purchases (I would of taken them out) and a few more grey hairs. You will cope with that. 

 

I usually cancel tax online. You need to do that or call,  rather than just cancel direct debit. They only give you back full months tax too, so you will lose 2 months if in second month.

 

not sure what reference you need, probably the tax doc when you taxed it. But otherwise I'm sure you could call and look up somehow.

 

I don't know what to suggest car wise. I had a 2011 vrs estate for 5 years. No real problems other than what I'd call maintenance and intake valve clean. It never let me down and it used minimal oils. But there is an inherent design weakness with the tensioner and the piston rings. And I sold at 70k miles . Edit. I also paid to have the tensioner changed on the day I bought it.

 

Other brands have had design and failure issues as well. Just steering clear of a mk 2 fl vrs doesn't guarantee success.

 

I guess the advice I could give is buy from a reputable dealer who has been trading for some time.  Monitor things carefully in first 30 days. Maybe even drive a long trip deliberately. And know your rights, I.e don't fall for the warranty is what we do for repairs!!

 

You could try a common rail diesel fl vrs I think they are pretty reliable generally.  Or even a petrol if you're feeling brave. But on balance, given age and mileage you may want to steer clear unless for example you can talk to owner or buy from a very reliable honest person. There are classifieds on here for example. 

 

Second hand cars. Always a risk!! 

 

 

 

Edited 23 April, 20224 yr by TheClient

Next time round (hopefully there will not be a next time) follow the very good advice given to you and firmly state I am not having anything to do with whatever warranty you strapped me up with, the car (I believe) is faulty and it is your responsability to fix it or have the car back & refund the purchase price, I will not enter into any further conversation regarding using the word "warranty" This would have saved you lots of hassle, time, lost sleep, arguments, all of which the dealers use the warranty to create, and got you to the same eventual resolution sooner.

 

Good luck with the next purchase.