Edited 27 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

 

 

 

That is plain weird! I think? 

I prefer Guy Martin's Amazon. 

 

Thankfully!

Prices and stuff that is rather important....

 

 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

The new generation of BMW BEV,s are looking interesting. I am seeing lots of the current ones that look like just cars about and also the munster SUV,s.

I will never have one and likely never drive one since right handed and drive right hand drive cars and am not going to be touching a screen in the middle while driving.

Looks like lots of steering wheel input needed,

or very light steering, or is that Deep Fake stuff.?

Edited 11 June, 202511 Jun by Ootohere

Autocar, amongst others have done a review on the new Lotus Evijajajaja. It's quite quick, although, it still doesn't give me the fizz ;)

Autocar

This ELECTRIC car just ripped up Autocar's road test reco...

British-made, 2013bhp EV cuts established 0-200mph benchmark by a massive 40 per cent

2 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

Autocar, amongst others have done a review on the new Lotus Evijajajaja. It's quite quick, although, it still doesn't give me the fizz ;)

Autocar

This ELECTRIC car just ripped up Autocar's road test reco...

British-made, 2013bhp EV cuts established 0-200mph benchmark by a massive 40 per cent

This is relatively slow compared to the Rimac Nereva R is significantly faster than the Lotus or any other current ICE car.......

Nope, still not feeling the fizz. The McMurtry is still the only lego motor vehicle that excites me so far. :(

Maybe one day?

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

This is relatively slow compared to the Rimac Nereva R is significantly faster than the Lotus or any other current ICE car.......

Well, now, steady on - the Nevera R might have 2,080bhp but the Lotus does still make do with 2,010. The Nevera is faster, but it’s designed to be - the Evija is a track car isn’t it? I’d still take the Koenigsegg Jesko though.

29 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

Nope, still not feeling the fizz. The McMurtry is still the only lego motor vehicle that excites me so far. :(

Maybe one day?

Have you been in a fast electric car? I’ve never been in anything like a Rimac, but I’ve had the pleasure of being a passenger in a Porsche Taycan GT. It made me feel quite ill, if I’m honest. I still don’t really understand the speed - it’s not so much a 0-60 as it is, one second you’re stoped and then the next you’re moving at motorway speed.

I am a piston head until I die, but nearly all electric cars are deeply impressive. I can almost guarantee that every vRS car on this forum, bar maybe two or three, would be absolutely dusted to 60mph by a middle of the road, dual motor Tesla Model 3. Yes I know there’s no soul, blah blah blah, but you cannot say that some of these electric performance cars aren’t incredible.

6 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

Well, now, steady on - the Nevera R might have 2,080bhp but the Lotus does still make do with 2,010. The Nevera is faster, but it’s designed to be - the Evija is a track car isn’t it? I’d still take the Koenigsegg Jesko though.

Have you been in a fast electric car? I’ve never been in anything like a Rimac, but I’ve had the pleasure of being a passenger in a Porsche Taycan GT. It made me feel quite ill, if I’m honest. I still don’t really understand the speed - it’s not so much a 0-60 as it is, one second you’re stoped and then the next you’re moving at motorway speed.

I am a piston head until I die, but nearly all electric cars are deeply impressive. I can almost guarantee that every vRS car on this forum, bar maybe two or three, would be absolutely dusted to 60mph by a middle of the road, dual motor Tesla Model 3. Yes I know there’s no soul, blah blah blah, but you cannot say that some of these electric performance cars aren’t incredible.

The acceleration figure for the Rima is in a different league above the Lotus for some reason despite the similar power. Another case where Torque is a key factor possible ie its 2650 Nm of torque compared to the Evija 1700 Nm.

Weight and how the torque numbers is spread across the revs or points on the acceleration curve.

Circuit lap times will start to emerge and we will be able to see some real figures with some twisties and not just drag strip.

Having a howling ICE may add to the theatre but outright performance is what matters when you know you are noise and bluster rather than actual performance.

F1 cars are one of the slower accelerating track vehicles. Slower acceleration to a 100mph, maybe a 150 mph, than a Formula-e car for example. The internal combustion engine is history and may limp a long for another handful of years, if aided by EV hybrid tech to actually get it off the line as the ICE car's torque/ power does not properly kick into 40/ 50 mph or so when the drag race is long over.

Trained as a ICE Engineering Officer, worked for Piper tuning race and road ICE cars, bikes etc but the vehicles "engine" choice is virtual over now.

8 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

Well, now, steady on - the Nevera R might have 2,080bhp but the Lotus does still make do with 2,010. The Nevera is faster, but it’s designed to be - the Evija is a track car isn’t it? I’d still take the Koenigsegg Jesko though.

Have you been in a fast electric car? I’ve never been in anything like a Rimac, but I’ve had the pleasure of being a passenger in a Porsche Taycan GT. It made me feel quite ill, if I’m honest. I still don’t really understand the speed - it’s not so much a 0-60 as it is, one second you’re stoped and then the next you’re moving at motorway speed.

I am a piston head until I die, but nearly all electric cars are deeply impressive. I can almost guarantee that every vRS car on this forum, bar maybe two or three, would be absolutely dusted to 60mph by a middle of the road, dual motor Tesla Model 3. Yes I know there’s no soul, blah blah blah, but you cannot say that some of these electric performance cars aren’t incredible.

The thing is driving enjoyment is not just about straight line acceleration or speed... It's a combination of sensory experiences that EVs, however fast, don't seem to deliver. Sure they are great at delivering one... Acceleration... But miss on a lot of the others.

28 minutes ago, skomaz said:

The thing is driving enjoyment is not just about straight line acceleration or speed... It's a combination of sensory experiences that EVs, however fast, don't seem to deliver. Sure they are great at delivering one... Acceleration... But miss on a lot of the others.

Indeed and that's what loses me with EVs. I'm getting one but purely as cheap transport.
I love cars, I've always loved cars but what I love isn't just performance it's the noise. The noise of my dream car isn't an electric whoosh, it's the grumble of a big block 70s American V8, or a Ferrari flat 12 at full chat.

It's also the smell, the smell of oily bits and fuel is special thing. And the enginering, I appreciate that there is a super engineeing in these electric motors to make them powerful but I don't find it intersting. I find big bits of metal flying around interesting, turbos, superchargers, Victorian beam engines, ship engines etc etc.
I still like mechnical watches even though digial is cheaper and more accurate.

I'm not agains EVs but they'll never tickle my interest like an Aston Martin V12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MndoKnIMMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvwNXNJqg3U

Funnily enough, CAR mag has just released its 'hot hatch day' results and the EVs don't fair well. Even the Oyonkikiki 5NNNS turbogts Hyundai is described as having that typical one dimensional acceleration that EVs have. Although it also concedes that the car's 'pretend' gear shifts improve things quite a bit.

I get the one-trick pony thing that most EVs do, but nothing excites me about that. I've been lucky enough to have a couple of petrol cars that can get to 100mph in the low 8 second area and that is fast enough for me. In truth, I don't really need that kind of acceleration, but would rather have the looks, handling and excitement of a driver's car. Maybe a Yaris GR?

I watched a fast car review recently on YouTube and Chris Harris was saying we have got to the point where cars have enough power, it's really all about the rest of the package now, that is what makes the difference. He has a point imho.

I agree with all.

I wouldn't say no to an Ioniq 5N or a EV6 GT - I just wouldn't be in a rush to say yes either. I've been in a 5N several times, along with a hot BYD Seal. They're both very fast cars, and I could even maybe live without the engine sound (again, having been in some fast electric cars, the acceleration is good enough for me). The issue lies in the handling, the braking and the design. EVs are just too heavy, and I don't like the design language, on so many levels.

The Ioniq 5N, by the way, starts from £65,000. Now, that's not a bad price for 640bhp and a sub 3 second 0-60, but I can think of so many other things, starting with M and ending in 340i, 440i, 550i, 2, 3 and 4 that I'd rather have. That's of course not to mention that, given my age, I'm years from spending that on a car - and I don't really fancy a Nissan Leaf.

I'm not making the case for EVs - as above, I am a piston head until I die (cars, aircraft and other things alike).

It's kind of like a hob. Lot's of people rave about induction hobs, and the new ones that are completely hidden under a counter top are very cool, but I'd rather have a gas five burner.

@lol-lol I'm more impressed it can put down 2650nm, even with AWD and 315 section tyres.

Speaking of tyres, that is the other issue with EVs. Due to their weight, they all need beefy suspension, beefy tyres, brakes, etc, that wear out at a faster rate than lighter ICE cars. It's only a small thing, but as the new (and again, deeply impressive) M5 demonstrates, less weight and less power is better than more weight and more power. It doesn't matter how large the carbon ceramic brakes are on the new super saloons/estates (M5, RS6, etc) - they'll still get left by a 2008 Lotus.

Edited 1 August, 20251 Aug by OccyVRS

They might get beefy brakes but not all need them and really in the UK even if you think you can go places at 100 mph average speed, that is in a parallel universe.

Sometime i might see some of these hyper cars going someplace really really quickly on 60 mph hill or mountain roads a lot quicker than that for mile after mile.

As it is many drivers of these super cars seem unable to stay on their own side of the road on thew A93 or A939 or the Evo Triangle / Roads around the Scottish Borders.

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

They might get beefy brakes but not all need them and really in the UK even if you think you can go places at 100 mph average speed, that is in a parallel universe.

Sometime i might see some of these hyper cars going someplace really really quickly on 60 mph hill or mountain roads a lot quicker than that for mile after mile.

As it is many drivers of these super cars seem unable to stay on their own side of the road on thew A93 or A939 or the Evo Triangle / Roads around the Scottish Borders.

Oh completely, not to mention stuff like regenerative braking negates the need for the larger brakes anyway. I'm just saying that, generally, more weight means beefier components that cost more.

It seems to be a trend with new cars to have large brakes - my dad's new 118i only has 130bhp, but yet comes with 350mm discs and 4 pot calipers. Still, I guess it's preferable to be over-braked than under-braked.

If you think the borders are bad, you should see things a bit farther north - I'm not sure what's worse, the 911s or the Focus STs!

P.S. - the MG X-Power something something, with plastic covers over the calipers -

Edited 1 August, 20251 Aug by OccyVRS

The MG X-Power brakes are poxy,

but that only matters if you are the kind of driver that uses brakes to get a move on...

Cloak of invisibility is of the greatest importance. Not making loads of noise is simply clever.

But now the drones are there to see you before the traffic cops pull you in. Regardless of what you might be nipping along in.

14 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

but that only matters if you are the kind of driver that uses brakes to get a move on...

Which, I'd argue, is nobody (legally) on UK roads.

The days of speeding are over - the only fun to be had is on an empty slip road, to the speed limit. Anything else is playing with fire.

All of the last few posts seem to hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned... sound, weight, inertness, design (interior and exterior) - they all count against EV's to me.

And I also concur with the comments about the appreciation of mechanical ingenuity and integrity...

The weight one seems to be a big killer too - as someone who likes pretty much anything mechanical and as an owner of two low weight cars - one 1040kg and one 975kg - I just can't get over the feeling of 'weight' that EV's have. Granted they can be made to go around corners pretty well but due to the weight they don't have that nimble light-footedness that I like.

Having said all of that I'm sure at some point soon, probably when I replace the Swift, I'll end up with a small EV for local duties... but I'm hoping by then some of the above issues will have been resolved.

Re weight...... the latest M3 is within 5% different to Model 3 performance.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/tesla/model-3/saloon-2016/performance-auto-4d/specs/

https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/m3-2020/m3-cs-4dr-step-auto/specs/

EV are no longer heavy when ICE cars have become bloated. The view EV are heavier is ~5 years out of date.

The thing with the latest M3 is you can cane it all day long and it doesn't give up. There's no overheat of brakes or battery (engine), for instance. There are a couple of fast laps in a Tesla (Nürburgring of course :D ) that were less than successful because of these problems. Only cured after you pay another £10k to get the performance pack to prevent this. I reckon that my colleagues that drive EVs and seemed to think their cars were as fast as my M3, were missing the point by a country mile. Driven at pace on deserted roads, or punished on a track, their EV shortcomings would come to light pretty quickly. It's the difference between a quick car and a car that is quick in a straight line (and even then, only a few times in a row before it overheats something). Don't get me wrong. The Oinky 5NNNN is a seriously good car, but no thanks for me.

Funnily enough though, I sold my M3 (G80) partly because the car was so 'complete', it was hard to get the same excitement that I got from its predecessor, in my case the M4 (F82). A much more lairy and compromised car, but brilliant fun. My current car is no paragon of virtue either, but it stands up to any punishment I dish out and will remind you that it won't do all the work for you. It can easily overcome it's rear tyres (305s) even though it is 4x4ish Also no EV will ever sound as epic, not even 1% of its epic-ness 🏎️ Maybe I need a turbocharged Reliant Robin next?

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Re weight...... the latest M3 is within 5% different to Model 3 performance.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/tesla/model-3/saloon-2016/performance-auto-4d/specs/

https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/m3-2020/m3-cs-4dr-step-auto/specs/

EV are no longer heavy when ICE cars have become bloated. The view EV are heavier is ~5 years out of date.

Still twice the weight of what I'm talking about though... Granted a different beast entirely but that's my point about a light and nimble feel...

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Re weight...... the latest M3 is within 5% different to Model 3 performance.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/tesla/model-3/saloon-2016/performance-auto-4d/specs/

https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/m3-2020/m3-cs-4dr-step-auto/specs/

EV are no longer heavy when ICE cars have become bloated. The view EV are heavier is ~5 years out of date.

Yes, that is true. I'm still stuck in the F and pre-LCI G series - I forget the new M5 is 2435kg.

42 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

The thing with the latest M3 is you can cane it all day long and it doesn't give up. There's no overheat of brakes or battery (engine), for instance. There are a couple of fast laps in a Tesla (Nürburgring of course :D ) that were less than successful because of these problems. Only cured after you pay another £10k to get the performance pack to prevent this. I reckon that my colleagues that drive EVs and seemed to think their cars were as fast as my M3, were missing the point by a country mile. Driven at pace on deserted roads, or punished on a track, their EV shortcomings would come to light pretty quickly. It's the difference between a quick car and a car that is quick in a straight line (and even then, only a few times in a row before it overheats something). Don't get me wrong. The Oinky 5NNNN is a seriously good car, but no thanks for me.

Funnily enough though, I sold my M3 (G80) partly because the car was so 'complete', it was hard to get the same excitement that I got from its predecessor, in my case the M4 (F82). A much more lairy and compromised car, but brilliant fun. My current car is no paragon of virtue either, but it stands up to any punishment I dish out and will remind you that it won't do all the work for you. It can easily overcome it's rear tyres (305s) even though it is 4x4ish Also no EV will ever sound as epic, not even 1% of its epic-ness 🏎️ Maybe I need a turbocharged Reliant Robin next?

But is that really an EV trait, or is that just demonstrative of a) how good an M car is and b) how bad a non-performance track focused EV is?

I'm sure a Tacan Turbo GT Weissach would give an M3 a run for its money (it did a 7:07 vs the G80s 7:28), but that is quite an extreme example (it's full of scaffolding and has no rear seats).

I think it's the very essence of an electric car - it's not designed to be a driver orientated experience (bar the 5N, etc), so of course it's not going to be engaging to drive. Are they designed to be fast in a straight line, or is that just a byproduct of electric torque?

All of that aside, on the average UK roads, I think EVs just don't offer the best experience. You need to be launching them on smooth tarmac up to 100mph to enjoy them - I'd far rather have something RWD that goes roar, when I floor it from 20mph to 50mph once in a while.

BTW - what did you replace the G80 with? AWDish in that size has to be a Turbo S or M5?

2 hours ago, OccyVRS said:

But is that really an EV trait, or is that just demonstrative of a) how good an M car is and b) how bad a non-performance track focused EV is?

I'm sure a Tacan Turbo GT Weissach would give an M3 a run for its money (it did a 7:07 vs the G80s 7:28), but that is quite an extreme example (it's full of scaffolding and has no rear seats).

I think it's the very essence of an electric car - it's not designed to be a driver orientated experience (bar the 5N, etc), so of course it's not going to be engaging to drive. Are they designed to be fast in a straight line, or is that just a byproduct of electric torque?

All of that aside, on the average UK roads, I think EVs just don't offer the best experience. You need to be launching them on smooth tarmac up to 100mph to enjoy them - I'd far rather have something RWD that goes roar, when I floor it from 20mph to 50mph once in a while.

BTW - what did you replace the G80 with? AWDish in that size has to be a Turbo S or M5?

That Porsche when new was more than twice the price of an M3!!! Crikey. £190K before you add options. A very good friend of mine has a Taycan 4S and surprisingly my Jag is a tad quicker in a straight line, although it is probably not as stable under heavy braking.

Also to be fair, the Taycan seems to have spent as much time at Porsche, not being fixed, as I've spent driving my Jag. The Taycan is constantly getting recalls, or failing to even start. Appalling, really, when you think of the money. Porsche are also not that interested in keep fixing it, as the car is now a few years old.

I changed from the G80 to an F Type R