Hi everyone. I have a 2010 1.2 Fabia which has been brilliant until last week. Engine management light came on and it's lost much of its power. It's sluggish moving off and struggles generally, although is still driveable. Diagnostic found cam positioning sensor to be the fault. This was replaced by my local garage. No improvement. Spark plugs changed too, still the same. I'm not a mechanic at all and the garage I use are stumped. Does anyone have any suggestions please? I love my car but I'm concerned it's going to be one of those faults that can never be identified. Thanks in advance. Mike

Possible chain slip. Check alignment of cams under the covers at the gearbox end.

It's easily identified, the timing chain has slipped, the cam position fault was the clue, your garage was too dumb to check.

Unfortunately it needs a new chain and tensioner kit which comes with new sprockets as well, you should stop using the car until it's fixed.

 

 

Edited 14 October, 20223 yr by sepulchrave
*snap

Is this a single cam 60bhp engine or dual cam 70bhp?

It's 1198cc not sure what the bhp is. Cam chain tensioner replacement sounds very expensive. 

Can you post a picture of the engine? Both the variants I referred to are 1198cc.

Are the spark plugs vertical in the middle of the top of the engine, or sticking out the front at a steep angle?

 

Reason for it being important is that one type tends to suffer much more damage than the other if the chain slips.

Aren't all the Mark 2's twinks?

No, hence the 60/70 bhp question. Mk1s were 54 and 64bhp.

Not sure if the single cam ones continued into face-lift mk2s though.

 

That single cam engine is a ****ter.

Not helpful.

6 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Not helpful.

 

Any engine that burns its valves and slips its timing like that one does is well worth avoiding, at 12 years old with commensurate mileage it's probably not worth repairing.

 

Hopefully that'll help the OP make up his mind.

1 hour ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Can you post a picture of the engine? Both the variants I referred to are 1198cc.

Are the spark plugs vertical in the middle of the top of the engine, or sticking out the front at a steep angle?

 

Reason for it being important is that one type tends to suffer much more damage than the other if the chain slips.

Many thanks. I'll get a photo in the morning. I believe the plugs are in line at the top. Really appreciate yours and everyone else's advice. It's left me with a feeling of hopelessness though given the cost I've seen online for this type of repair. No point burying my head in the sand though. I'd just spent a fortune on it getting things sorted! Oh well. Thanks again. 

3 hours ago, Northbynorthwest said:

Many thanks. I'll get a photo in the morning. I believe the plugs are in line at the top. Really appreciate yours and everyone else's advice. It's left me with a feeling of hopelessness though given the cost I've seen online for this type of repair. No point burying my head in the sand though. I'd just spent a fortune on it getting things sorted! Oh well. Thanks again. 

 

Maybe a garage could just replace the chain tensioner and keep the old chain. This would only make sense if it was the tensioner that caused the chain to slip rather than a worn chain and sprockets that caused the chain to slip.

 

What mileage is the car?

 

Edited 15 October, 20223 yr by Carlston

That would make no sense at all with this engine. It's a major operation to replace either, and only worth considering really if no other engine damage has occurred.

 

However, this is all very premature because until more evidence is acquired, chain slip isn't diagnosed, it's just guessed.

Good morning. Attached is a photo of the engine of my Fabia. It's done 118000+ miles so isn't the youngest car anymore but its run perfectly until this. Given everyone's comments, from people far more knowledgeable than me, the picture being built is that it would cost way more to repair than the car is worth so it feels like the end of the road, literally. My next step is to talk to my garage on Monday and share what you good folks have said and see what they say. In the meantime I won't drive it, unless I take it to part ex it, which is likely. I really appreciate everyone offering opinions. We're all living in difficult times and I could have done without this, especially after spending hundreds to keep it going a few weeks ago on wiring looms, service,  MOT etc, but life is like that isn't it. Have a good day everyone. 

OK, that's the twin cam version.

 

On the end of the engine nearest the battery there are a couple of removable covers that reveal some features on the end of the cams when opened. These features are slot-like and should be parallel to one another if all is well with the inter-cam chain timing. They are used to fit timing tools such as these into during chain work:

 

If they aren't at parallel angles, some slip has occurred, and you should probably get the garage to inspect for valve damage.

 

The covers to remove for inspection:

 

Edited 15 October, 20223 yr by Breezy_Pete

I'll get my lump hammer out shortly and have a look.  Seriously though, I will try to look and let you know. I have a driver Ed course at lunchtime after having allegedly past a cyclist too closely. Not doing well at the moment am I. 🤣

The engine will have to be turned to TDC for the slots to be aligned, its unlikely to be at that position when you remove the covers.

 

You dont need to be too concerned about exact TDC, if they never align at the centre line of the cams (45° and 315°) then the timing has slipped.

 

I'm not sure if it applies to this engine but with some of the other turning the engine backwards is the kiss of death so if in doubt continue turning forwards for another revolution rather than trying to back up a tad.

TDC? 

1 minute ago, Northbynorthwest said:

TDC? 

Top Dead Centre.

Thank you!

The slots should be parallel to one another whatever angle the engine is at. No need to turn it to see.

Thank you. Still on the course so will take a look later. 

Managed to get a look as you advised. They seem to match positions in my opinion which is good, I think? Posting photos to follow. Wasn't easy to take photos but got 3. One of each and one.of both together. Hopefully you can offer an opinion from them and let me know. Thanks again for your help so far.

One more to come after this...