5 hours ago, TomTom88 said:

hose cars decades ago had halogen lights. Those make a lot of heat. Led’s dont do that.

My last car was also full-LED (front and back); I drove it for more than 40k km in ~2 years, had no condensation - at least not visible - and it met all the weather requirements according to MK4 standards for normal condensation... This morning I noticed the condensation was gone from the headlights, but it was there inside the back lights.

 

The previous car also had front radar&camera, lane assist, blind spot monitor... Only got "Front assist unavailable" a couple of times when the radar was covered by several mm of ice/snow. Today I was half-way on a 200 km drive, I received simultaneously front assist, lane assist and maneuvering braking unavailable. The weather was really nice, sunny, perfectly dry roads, about 10 deg.Celsius. The car was dirty overall from the previous two days conditions, but I specifically cleaned the "sensitive" areas before starting the trip today (front radar, front/rear sensors).

I know I'm going off-topic, but the point I'm trying to make is that I'm starting to worry I received more gremlins than I paid for. (BTW: the Megane GT was significantly cheaper than the MK4)

1 hour ago, SkOmk4 said:

My last car was also full-LED (front and back); I drove it for more than 40k km in ~2 years, had no condensation - at least not visible - and it met all the weather requirements according to MK4 standards for normal condensation...

I'm actually pretty sure, that it had the same note in the manual - that condensation CAN happen and is normal in case of LED lights. Your didn't have it, but there might be multiple different users who had condensation in the same model.

The same way as i don't have condensation in my O4 headlights. Also didn't have it in previouse Ateca and Leon 5F, but i know from the forums that SOME users had it.

If you are going to judge cars based on some users, do it also for the car you're comparing it to.

 

1 hour ago, SkOmk4 said:

The previous car also had front radar&camera, lane assist, blind spot monitor... Only got "Front assist unavailable" a couple of times when the radar was covered by several mm of ice/snow. Today I was half-way on a 200 km drive, I received simultaneously front assist, lane assist and maneuvering braking unavailable.

I've had only front assist error due to dirty windscreen (yes, FA is using camera in O4 for detecting other road users, not only cars). Also had manouvering assist errors once, but that was after coding something, never happened again.

Had FA not available in Ateca, but only during heavy snow or rain.

 

1 hour ago, SkOmk4 said:

I'm starting to worry I received more gremlins than I paid for.

Might be. Unfortunately level of complication of those cars is ridiculous, and this causes some cars behaving differently to others.

 

1 hour ago, SkOmk4 said:

BTW: the Megane GT was significantly cheaper than the MK4

Was it also cheaper when you got O4? Please remember about enourmous inflation of car prices during recent 2 years.

13 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

Was it also cheaper when you got O4?

Unfortunately, the GT (RS chassis and 4Control) was out of production in 2018 (sept) when Euro 6b became applicable. I would have also bought the Megane if they would have still offered an engine-gearbox combination that would have interest me. However, the closest version to the O4 I ordered was still ~15% cheaper ( order: Aug.2021).

 

13 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

I've had only front assist error due to dirty windscreen

As I mentioned, when the errors occurred in my case, the driving conditions were really good, and all the involved surfaces&sensors were cleaned before the trip. I developed the habit of cleaning windows, front/rear lights, sensors and number plates before longer trips when the car is dirty. There was no reason for those errors to popup mid-trip, except for poor-implementation. And we know pretty well there's a tone of post around here reporting all sorts of errors. There's more than unparalleled level of complexity and faulty sensors - it's lazy-coding and insufficient testing.

 

13 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

I'm actually pretty sure, that it had the same note in the manual - that condensation CAN happen and is normal in case of LED lights

Indeed, the other manual mentioned "Traces of condensation may be a natural phenomenon caused by variations in temperature and humidity". And indeed, there are users that reported condensation, but nothing close to the pictures of @Hairy_Joe (6th Dec.). I'm not worried by traces of condensation such as those I posted on 6th of Dec., but the condensation I had last weekend after 30 minutes of driving through rain, would have become similar to @Hairy_Joe and @T13 pictures after 2-3 hours of rain...
So where does one draw the line? I'm sure that warranty replacement is highly dependent on dealer... (the disclaimer is right there in the Manual)

41 minutes ago, SkOmk4 said:

I'm not worried by traces of condensation such as those I posted on 6th of Dec., but the condensation I had last weekend after 30 minutes of driving through rain, would have become similar to @Hairy_Joe and @T13 pictures after 2-3 hours of rain...

 

How do you know that?

49 minutes ago, SkOmk4 said:

However, the closest version to the O4 I ordered was still ~15% cheaper ( order: Aug.2021).

Checked out of curiosity, and at the moment in Poland there's only dCI 115, so no way to compare it to 150HP TDI.

Also checked petrol - TCe140 could be compared to 1.0 TSI when it comes to performance.

So matching the options and engines Megane is similar or more expensive than O4.

But as said - this is NOW and in Poland...

54 minutes ago, SkOmk4 said:

There was no reason for those errors to popup mid-trip, except for poor-implementation.

What do you mean by "poor implementation"? I'm not getting those errors out of nowhere, so for me implementation is good.

But maybe, as i mentioned before, you car has more gremlins? Maybe there is issue with one of the control units or cabling?

As said - level of complication of those cars is so high, that it's easy to get some random errors in some cars, while others are ok.

56 minutes ago, SkOmk4 said:

Indeed, the other manual mentioned "Traces of condensation may be a natural phenomenon caused by variations in temperature and humidity". And indeed, there are users that reported condensation

Yet based on YOUR O4 and YOUR Megane you draw a conclusion, that all O4 have problems with condensation, and Megane's doesn't. Or at least it sounds like that.

4 hours ago, Felix2021 said:

you draw a conclusion, that all O4 have problems with condensation, and Megane's doesn't

Well, that's quite far from what I was saying... I just mentioned above that Megane users reported headlight condensation (you quoted it!), so I fail to understand your logic.

 

5 hours ago, J.R. said:

How do you know that?

Simple extrapolation: if I'd have spent more time in those humidity and temperature conditions, the amount of condensation would have been higher.
Sure, one may assume that at some point an equilibrium between condensation and drying will be reached, but I'm just worried it was not the case after 30 minutes.

4 hours ago, SkOmk4 said:

Simple extrapolation: if I'd have spent more time in those humidity and temperature conditions, the amount of condensation would have been higher.

So you think it fills up with condensation as you drive, an interesting concept 🥴

5 hours ago, SkOmk4 said:

Well, that's quite far from what I was saying... I just mentioned above that Megane users reported headlight condensation (you quoted it!), so I fail to understand your logic.

It was more refering to your previous posts, and you admitted this only after i have specifically asked

But let's just call it a simple misunderstanding and move along, ok?

On 07/12/2022 at 10:18, luxdog said:

I've also got it in the rear lights...

they were changed for me

12 hours ago, J.R. said:

So you think it fills up with condensation as you drive

No, it's not what I'm suggesting or saying...
However, what I am saying is that a moving car and some temperature variation inside the headlight (from the lights) will enhance the air-flow in&out of the headlight and therefore a humidity increase.

Ideally, if there would be no temperature and no pressure gradient between the inside and the outside of the headlight, and no air moving along the back of the headlight (where the headlight vents are positioned) - then you'd have no humidity getting inside. Therefore:

- for a parked car the air exchange will be mainly due to the pressure gradient (that's mainly atmospheric pressure variations);
- for a slow moving car and no headlights the contribution of the moving air will be added;

- for a fast moving car with lights on there will be a higher contribution of the "wind" around the back of the headlight plus the temperature gradient.

 

12 hours ago, J.R. said:

an interesting concept

Not really. Just plain simple physics; thermodynamics to be more precise.

 

 

10 hours ago, Combi_NX5 said:

they were changed for me

Do you have any picture showing the rear condensation that led to the replacement?

 

Edited 28 December, 20223 yr by SkOmk4

So, if LED bulbs hardly create any heat why do manufactures feel the need to add ventilation holes in a headlight as surely this is causing the condensation problem .

1 hour ago, SkOmk4 said:

Do you have any picture showing the rear condensation that led to the replacement?

 

Yes

@ @JEFF-the-Bowman

No sure why they add those holes, I'm assuming it's for pressure equilibrium with the exterior. 

For heat dissipation LED headlights have those metal radiators on the back, that were not present on halogen lights.

 

@Combi_NX5
Ouch! That looks nasty! Mine were only half of what you had, just the clear part (without the red section), but I only checked the next morning when it was already clear&nice weather outside...

Edited 28 December, 20223 yr by SkOmk4

24 minutes ago, JEFF-the-Bowman said:

So, if LED bulbs hardly create any heat why do manufactures feel the need to add ventilation holes in a headlight as surely this is causing the condensation problem .

Are they not pressure equalising holes to allow for changes in atmospheric pressure and altitude?

28 minutes ago, JEFF-the-Bowman said:

So, if LED bulbs hardly create any heat why do manufactures feel the need to add ventilation holes in a headlight as surely this is causing the condensation problem .

I have had a real problem with freezing rain in night.  🙈 

This was not a problem for halogens!

52 minutes ago, Combi_NX5 said:

I have had a real problem with freezing rain in night.  🙈 

This was not a problem for halogens!

Your situation should be good for warranty exchange.

34 minutes ago, TheUltraRunner said:

Your situation should be good for warranty exchange.

I think the rain freezes on the headlights because they don't heat up like the halogens that were once used

This is my headlight tonight with quite a bit of driving in the rain and sub 10c temperatures, looks proper terrible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, quick update. 

 

Thanks to mainly working from home, a surprisingly dry spell and disappearing for Christmas, I've not really driven the car in much rain since and had no condinsation......

Rain is not the main reason for the condensation to appear. It's the quick temperature change (when the outside temperature drops quicker than the temperature inside the light) that causes condensation inside the light. 

I'm heartened that at least one person has some common sense and is not overthinking things after the lecture on thermodynamics.

 

The moisture gets in when the vehicle is at rest and the  volume of air in the headlight units cools bringing in humid ambient air, the condensation appears when the headlights heat up from the engine and/or the LED bulbs and the lens is in contact with the colder outside air also with wind chill.

 

Some of the photos look really bad, it would be interesting to see just what is different with the new lights that have been fitted under warranty.

Edited 28 December, 20223 yr by J.R.

Had the same issue for about one month - one month and a half after I got the car (got it last year in Jan, 6th). 

In mid February (while still cold outside) the condensation stopped appearing in the headlights. Never got the condensation ever since (car ran even in -8 degrees C) this December.

 

Maybe I got lucky...

Hey, been driving my Octy for a bit more than 3 months now and noticed this today.

Not sure if it happened during driving as it caught our attention about 3 hours after the car was parked. Compared to some other pics one can say it’s not great not terrible, but still not a very nice thing to see.

Pretty normal. As long as you don't have droplets in the lights. Not nice to see but at the end it's just physics. Same as sometimes happens with your windows. The difference is that in the cabin you have AC/ventilation which removes the moisture.

Other manufacturers even in Central Europe for use in Europe and globally have manage to defy physics & science that Skoda work with with their headlights. 

Instead of being Simply clever they designed & engineered a better product.

Edited 11 January, 20233 yr by toot