Clutch problem..

[stephenmcateer]

It;s difficult to engage first & reverse gear in my 2015 Citigo, especially if the weather is cold.

 

The internet says likely cause is broken clutch pressure plate springs / fingers.

 

Can anyone tell me what's likely to happen if I leave it the way it is? — Will debris / loose bits damage something else in there?

 

Thanks.

[AnnoyingPentium]

I'd be thinking gear linkages, but I'm not a professional.

[stephenmcateer]

20 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

I'd be thinking gear linkages, but I'm not a professional.

Thanks. I thought that was the other possibility too. Probably easier (And cheaper) to have a go at adjusting the cables first. It doesn't look like the procedure is too difficult, just a question of access.

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, stephenmcateer said:

 

The internet says likely cause is broken clutch pressure plate springs / fingers

Like @AnnoyingPentium I'm thinking check the linkage adjustment first.

[stephenmcateer]

9 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Like @AnnoyingPentium I'm thinking check the linkage adjustment first.

Yes thanks. I just went  out & looked at the linkage — the cable ends are fairly accessible but I can't see the locking lever that sets the gearbox to the home position. Dunno. Might have to hand it over to a garage. Will have a think.

[SuperbTWM]

The clutch not disengaging fully can cause issues, you can usually prove this at standstill by selecting say third gear and then putting the car into first or reverse as quickly as you can.

 

If it always goes straight into first or reverse after being in another gear then the clutch is dragging.

 

Another way to prove it is with the engine off, can you get 1st & reverse easily with the engine off?

[stephenmcateer]

48 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

The clutch not disengaging fully can cause issues, you can usually prove this at standstill by selecting say third gear and then putting the car into first or reverse as quickly as you can.

 

If it always goes straight into first or reverse after being in another gear then the clutch is dragging.

 

Another way to prove it is with the engine off, can you get 1st & reverse easily with the engine off?

Thanks. Yes I can put it into first & reverse easily enough with the engine off. Thinking about it, this should mean it's more likely to be the clutch itself rather than the gear selector cables needing adjustment. 

[Snaefell]

You could bleed the clutch slave cylinder to ensure the release bearing is getting full travel.

 

Does gear selection get any easier once it's warm?  Is it easier to select 1st and reverse if the wheels are moving (very) slowly?

 

It's unlikely to be pressure plate related, try the easy 'solutions' first.

 

[stephenmcateer]

1 minute ago, Snaefell said:

You could bleed the clutch slave cylinder to ensure the release bearing is getting full travel.

 

Does gear selection get any easier once it's warm?  Is it easier to select 1st and reverse if the wheels are moving (very) slowly?

 

It's unlikely to be pressure plate related, try the easy 'solutions' first.

 

Thanks. Yes — gear selection is much easier when the engine has warmed up. Also if the car is rolling. (On very cold days, getting it into first & reverse from a standing start is impossible until it has warmed up — I usually just turn the engine off & put it in gear, then start it again). I'll look into bleeding it and see if it's accessible enough that I can do it myself.

[freemansteve]

Could be the clutch, but likely to be hydraulics.

[stephenmcateer]

Thanks Steve. I just looked and the clutch bleed valve is not all that accessible from the top. Need to bleed it from underneath I think. 

 

According to the service manual, you have to pressurise the system, which is something I've not done before, so I have to look and see what that involves.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[freemansteve]

I'm sure I have bought a cheapish hydraulic pressurizer/topper-upper kit in the past - I doubt it'll be a big issue. Or it's a quick job at any local garage.

Worth at least checking the hydraulics before splitting transmission to get to the clutch - which still could be the fault.

[stephenmcateer]

58 minutes ago, freemansteve said:

I'm sure I have bought a cheapish hydraulic pressurizer/topper-upper kit in the past

I see a Sealey one on Amazon for about £60. I'll have a think and see if I want to try and do it myself. Cheers Steve.

[freemansteve]

More than I thought!

Cheaper to go a local garage, and drink their coffee while you wait!

[stephenmcateer]

I think I'm going to try and bleed this clutch myself & see if it fixes the problem. 

 

Looking at the (Buried) location of the bleed valve, my guess is that loosening it from underneath would be very difficult.

 

From the top it looks more do-able but the battery & its tray would need to come out.

 

I'm off to research what's involved in removing the battery. Hopefully not much...

[J.R.]

You can do it from the top easily by hand by feel only.

 

However to become proficient you will likely need to remove the air filter etc the first time to see what you are doing and get the necessary familiarity of touch.

 

You do not need a pressure bleeder, there is a void underneath the bleed nipple where any air from downstream gathers, you simply use a clear vertical bleed hose, open the bleed valve by hand and watch the air come up followed by a little fluid, when the bubbles stop (quite quickly) you close the valve, most times you will have only drawn a tiny bit of fluid and wont need to top up.

 

Any air higher in the system (unlikely) will rise up through the master cylinder and into the reservoir, its a very simple single piston seal master cylinder and when the pedal is up any air can rise unrestricted right through the master cylinder.

 

If you replace the master cylinder then a pressure bleeder will make the job quicker but gravity and patience will do the job equally well as will traditional 2 person manual bleeding, VAG say a pressure bleeder because its quick and does not require a 2nd person but only necessary for a master cylinder change done by one person against the clock.

Edited 27 January, 2023 by J.R.

[stephenmcateer]

Okay thanks very much J.R.

 

I'll look at the location of it again tomorrow and see if I think I can get my hand on the bleed nipple without removing the battery, which would make things much simpler of course.

 

My brother has offered to help me with this procedure so maybe I won't need the pressure bleeder as you say [It's currently £61 on Amazon.]

 

If I go ahead and bleed it I'll post an update here.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[J.R.]

My experience is with a CR diesel Yeti, it may be different in the smaller engine bay of the Citigo and you do not mention what engine you have, but if the bleed nipple is under the battery it sounds like the same concentric slave cylinder set up.

 

I had to make assumptions on the very limited information given, my advice could be completely wrong.

Edited 27 January, 2023 by J.R.

[stephenmcateer]

Okay thanks again.

 

The engine is the standard / normally aspirated one.

 

Access to a lot of stuff in the engine bay is pretty tight as you might imagine with a small car.

 

I'll look at it more closely tomorrow.

 

Cheers.

 

[J.R.]

If you have a plastic clutch master cylinder that shares the brake fluid reservoir, if you have a concentric slave cylinder with a knurled thumbturn bleed valve you will not need a pressure bleeder or a second person but a second pair of eyes is always an advantage.

[freemansteve]

Are we talking about Up!/Citigo/Mii, or some random car now?

 

[skippy41]

see utube how to sort the cluch problem all you do is adjust the springs