EV used car prices plummeting ,what's your experience?

[lol-lol]

Yeah but is this really being measured properly or on numbers which were never real in the first place.

As always I take the Zoe as the example, one of the biggest selling EVs in the last ten years.

 

RRP of my Zoe ZE50 was around £34K when I acquired it, via PCP of course, just over 2 years ago.

But that is a number which i certainly did not pay anything like.  There was the £2.5K Government grant, I recall Renault took £5k off, the dealer another £1K.

I got the car on 2% flat APR and I pay about £280 a month for the £25k or so loan it actually was.

 

The car costs next to nothing to service ie basically £99 a year for a general check over, less than 3p a mile to charge up at home which I do for 99% of the mileage I do.

 

When the car goes for PCP return in two years will consider keeping it I suppose. 

 

So yes the car has reduced value to just over one third in 2 years if one looks at the RRP and current market value but that £34k was never its really value to compare against for the value drop from then to now.

 

Just silly numbers to work on.  How much a month is it, 90% of newish cars are leased !!

 

Very happy with the economic model of running an EV.  But as I do couple of thousand miles a month I have the hybrid too, with a fuel card attached, so can actually run cars for less than 25p a mile ie the Treasury over 10k miles in the tax year.  First 10K miles can make a good profit I reckon.

 

Love driving the EV, most relaxing car I have ever driven.

[wyx087]

I guess the crux of it is that.... as you as you didn't buy in 2022 when new EV prices were at highest without any dealership discount...... 😅

 

Looking at Leaf 40 prices, not as good as Zoe/Mii for some unknown reason. I think we've already hit rock bottom and market is in rebound. During lowest time, an almost new Leaf 62 with dealership car park miles were advertised for £20k.

[lol-lol]

7 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I guess the crux of it is that.... as you as you didn't buy in 2022 when new EV prices were at highest without any dealership discount...... 😅

 

Looking at Leaf 40 prices, not as good as Zoe/Mii for some unknown reason. I think we've already hit rock bottom and market is in rebound. During lowest time, an almost new Leaf 62 with dealership car park miles were advertised for £20k.

 

Concern about higher battery degradation on some Leafs?

Earlier leafs only had passive battery cooling and suffered from overheating whuc h could result in much slower second charges in a hot day ?

 

Does zero Euroncap may have hurt some values but maybe not much.

 

I wanted a 64 kWh LEAF but the waiting list was long.  Range in the 52 Kwh Zoe is reportedly as good if not better than the 62/64 kWh LEAF so happy days on my choice except the Zoe is a bit smaller and therefore not really a 4 or 5 seater car but more like a 2 or three seat with a couple more seats for small persons.

 

Edited 18 November, 2023 by lol-lol

[wyx087]

Correct, Leaf 40 is not a all-purpose EV, it would throttle second rapid charging of the day making it difficult to do more than 200 miles a day. I don't believe 62kWh have this problem due to lower C rating during rapid charging.

 

I believe I have enough knowledge from SpeakEV forums to know how to test for Leaf degradation. The key with 40 kWh versions is that if rapid charged, cells 30-40 IIRC would overheat and degrade faster. So armed with Leafspy, drive the car down to 20-30% and see if any cells or group of cells have large voltage drops.

 

Leafspy also shows rapid charging count, so this can be used as guideline.

 

All it means is that I would not buy Leaf 40's blind, must be allowed to use Leafspy and will demand to test drive at below 50% SoC.

 

Or wait 1-2 years and see if I can get 62kWh to futureproof myself in order to use V2H to power heat pump.

[Ootohere]

I shed a tear or 3 for the Character that is 'The MacMaster', really Lee Alexander Davey AKA Rodney the Plonker.   Tears of laughter!

 

He was fooled by the Media, by people just like him. They spin any old guff often that does not actually have a grain of truth.

He got a car for Business use and it has cost him dearly to run up and down the UK while he supposedly uses expensive chargers as often as he can as an alternative to the ones he can use that are much cheaper. 

 

https://themacmaster.co.uk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 January by Rooted

[J.R.]

On 02/04/2023 at 08:52, Rooted said:

My Alhambra was £32,000 sticker price & they paid £24,000 ish, i paid £600 advance payment and £200 for factory sunset glass.

 

They wanted £18,000 i think for me to buy it at end of lease, they got around £14,000 for it at auction and that was as Covid hit and lockdown & Arnold Clark could not get it sold and about a year later it was advertised at around £12,000.

@Rooted

 

An old posting but it caught my eye, I hope you dont mind answering a couple of questions.

 

How many years was the lease and how much were your monthly payments? I ask because seeing the figures that you have already posted it looks like quite a profitable deal for them but it all depends on how much they were paid during the contract.

 

Second question, and I don't mind if you dont answer this, were the payments within the amount of disability/mobility allowance that you recieve?

 

Do you have to lease a vehicle with the allowance or can you be paid it to fund your own transport and are there conditions that must be met ? Knowing that you are a wheeler dealer I'm sure you would have taken that option were it to be profitable to you, but us mere mortals cannot buy new cars at that sort of discount.

[Ootohere]

The PIP money is the persons that receives it, it does not need to be used to have a car, but you can use as you want, buy or lease a car or Lease from Motability.  A Charity that has just given a nice pay rise to the heid yins.

 

I pay full amount of the weekly Disability Civilian payment.  Military disabled get a higher rate.

Current payment £71 a week, so £3,692 a year,  3 years being over £11,000,  but the annual benefit increase is taken. 

 

There are cars at the fixed rate, or ones that are a few quid a week less and fixed for the term of the lease.  3 years, can be extended, or more expensive / adapted vehicles 5 years.

 

A couple can pool their PIP towards more expensive vehicles, adapted etc,. 

 

eg

 

 

Edited 26 January by Rooted

[Ootohere]

@J.R.

I have in the past bought cars using a loan from Motability when they did that.  HP.

I bought a New Jimny on a 5 year loan and had it for over 15 years. & a Used Fabia with a 4 year loan and the wiped the last year and the car was mine because they changed their 'Business model'.

 

Lots of time i never leased a car because i never had Invalidity allowance or DLA or not 3 years.

So that was when i traded in Ex Motability cars and Automatics.

They used to be limited to 12,000 miles a year and other things that were a PITA, and you lost your NCD.

That changed when it went to 20,000 miles a year without paying extra per mile.  Ford & Vauxhall forced that change.

Then the 2008 Bank Crash had the Big Banks getting control of the Billions that Motability had in funds.

Then people got expensive cars, expensive adaptions, and BCA get lovely cars to auction off.

There was supposed to be a £26,000 Max Purchase cost.

 

It is all a scandal, an Old Boys Club.  A great wizz for junkets, and board / patron meetings and everyone can fill their boots.

It is a long time past when there needs to be a grip taken over this gravy train and it gets back to being for the Customers and those with the disability payment and not about 'The Management / Charities Board Members.'

 

...................

This is an f-in scandal.  Like the 4 big banks that have the cash money under their control.

It has been like this for decades now and should be knocked on the head. 

motability-operations-annual-report-2023.pdf

Edited 26 January by Rooted

[J.R.]

I'm too knackered and its too late for me to comprehend all that.

 

Was the answer to question 1 that you paid £71 per week over 3 years to lease the Alhambra in addition to the down payment?

[Ootohere]

@J.R.  I seen to remember that the Higher rate DLA mobility component was £57.45 a week in 2016 (£2,987.40 a year) when I got the Alhambra and no Advance Payment and I paid £200 for the Sunset tint.  (benefits go up in April.)  I could have had the top of the range 184 ps with everything for £650 advance payment but I wanted 16" rims, no motors in back doors, no leather, no roof rails and no chrome. Near £10,000 for 3 years lease, includes insurance, servicing, including AdBlue, MOT and no VED to pay.

 Dealers and Mobility want you to take the Top of the Range.  Better residuals likely. 

 

I wanted the basic because the cheaper and lighter model was actually more fuel efficient than the Official figures showed. I borrowed a 184 ps for a week.

 As with probably all manufacturers they do not announce the cheapest model being better in fuel.   It actually came better specced than it showed in the brochures.

There was the increase in 2017 and 2018 to the benefits which was paid to Motability. 

Edited 27 January by Rooted

[wyx087]

How does those boot mounted bike racks attach to the car? Do you think the straps can work on Tesla's glass boot/roof?

 

I'm looking at options to transport 2 bikes at the moment.

[wyx087]

EV bargains to be had, comparing to ICE cars:

 

I think there will be more bargains next year, as manufacturers shifts ZEV mandate to next year but those who really want EV's (buyers) dry up.

 

The moment public misinformation campaign kicks off, is the moment I think we'll see less competitively priced vehicles.

[kodiaqsportline]

On 26/01/2024 at 07:51, Rooted said:

I shed a tear or 3 for the Character that is 'The MacMaster', really Lee Alexander Davey AKA Rodney the Plonker.   Tears of laughter!

 

He was fooled by the Media, by people just like him.

 

I watched a video of that bloke the other day - God knows why it appeared on my recommended to watch YouTube video listing.

 

How can anyone be that financially stupid?  He's in no position to give advice to others, the advice he does give is crap. He then speaks of negative equity, decided to 'bite the bullet' and wants change his car to a 911, but load the negative equity for the Tycan on to the 911 !   That's hardly biting the bullet !  And he's surprised why nobody will entertain it.

 

His moans apply to ANY car, it has nothing to do with EV's.

 

But I digress, that's not why I'm adding to this thread:

 

Dacia Spring from £14999

 

I reckon this will be an absolute game changer for EVs. It's only really suited to town work but I expect it to fly off the shelves. In fact, you could make an argument people will buy it in addition to their main car just for that purpose. The price of this EV will never plummet, in fact I'd go as far to say that there will be a premium to be made for those who take earlier delivery. I'd put money on demand outstripping supply. 

 

 

Edited 14 March by kodiaqsportline

[@Lee]

I'll try and catch up tomorrow but FWIW I've never payed full price for a brand new car as I've never bought one but I always buy my cars outright from day one with cash money . HPs always been a scam as far as I can tell. Nowt for nowt usually though there may be exceptions I'm unaware of though HP may suit some people and there are different and sometimes good deals to be had which may suit some people. 

[Ootohere]

If Skoda does the walk rather than talk and  reveals the small BEV on Friday and when it will be able to purchase for much cheapness then it will be worth all the spin time in favoured mags.

 

Edited 14 March by Rooted

[wyx087]

I'd happily buy Skoda again if the ID2-sized car can do V2H replacing our Leaf. 

I'm eagerly looking for more details on V2G/V2H for Renault 5 EV. 

 

There's often deals if taking finance. You can always pay off the finance product within certain days or something about certain amount has been paid. I think I paid around £200 in interest for the Leaf PCP, once we decided to keep it, we paid off rest and ended it early. Got 2 free servicing out of it. 

 

 

 

Personally, I don't think we will ever see 2022 situation in the near future. Where I could have turned around and sold a few weeks old Model Y for tidy £10k profit. The ZEV mandate is too strict and there's still a lot of hold-outs. EV prices will only fall due to 3 factors colliding:

- manufacturers trying to induce demand (price reduction) to hit the mandate, 

- more and more perfectly good second hand EV on the market 

- shrinking demand as people who can easily adopt EV got one 

 

Having said that, older used EV price isn't falling in price right now, to my frustration. Who is buying 2018 6 years old Leaf 40 for 11-12k, when almost new less than 20 miles forecourt 73 reg Leaf 40 can be had for £19k?  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402216812242

 

 

Edited 14 March by wyx087

[Ootohere]

Just spotted his vid that is discussed a few posts back.

#breaks my heart!.    Encouraging clicks. 

 Nobody wants to help him out in the motor trade to cover the cost of driving a premium BEV as his company car other than Tax Payers.

 

 

Do not buy new ones. Great advice. From a financial genius and me.

Lease them when the are for Business Use.  Rent the tool of the trade, especially if you are a tool.

 

 

 

Edited 20 March by Rooted

[Ootohere]

 

 

 

[logiclee]

On 20/03/2024 at 08:31, Ootohere said:

Just spotted his vid that is discussed a few posts back.

#breaks my heart!.    Encouraging clicks. 

 Nobody wants to help him out in the motor trade to cover the cost of driving a premium BEV as his company car other than Tax Payers.

 

 

Do not buy new ones. Great advice. From a financial genius and me.

Lease them when the are for Business Use.  Rent the tool of the trade, especially if you are a tool.

 

 

 

 

 

Lee (The Macmaster) used to live a couple of hundred metres from my house. So I know him and he does a lot of food reviews directly around where I live.

 

Obviously it's an entertainment channel and he's not like that in real life.

 

But yes he bought the wrong car for his usage, he specced up a basic model which is financial suicide and he bought an EV when they where top money.  The Youtube videos have more than made up for the financial loss though. 

 

I've recently bought a nearly new Karoq but the dealer was definitely pushing the Enyaq and I could have had a delivery mileage 204PS 80 Loft Enyaq for similar money to the Karoq.  That's a massive discount on new. 

[Ootohere]

I think he bought the right vehicle for his needs.   Actually he has not bought it and does not own it.

He drives to do Food videos and to the airport to do trips abroad and needs a vehicle so he makes video's while using a vehicle and people watch those.

It is all part of his expenses as a video maker / producer / broadcaster.   Just as if his videos were about angling and he was driving to angling places and making videos.

 

I have never seen a video where he goes by bus or train, but if he does go that way that will be part of his overheads / expenses.

 

Just like the guy in the video above that says it cost him £6,000 for 6 months.

Well he needed to drive something and lesser cars can cost £500 a month to have for your transport.

Both of them are business users driving a Porsche EV, so a bit different from private users.

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

I think he bought the right vehicle for his needs.   

 

The negative EV videos being a great Youtube subject aside Lee will openly admit a Petrol/Hybrid/Diesel would have suited his lifestyle and mileage much better. 

 

It's been a lucky consequence that all his troubles have resulted in a massive increase in subscribers and some of his most watched videos are EV videos. Prior to the EV he was 99% Travel and Food channel.

[Ootohere]

Come off it. His lifestyle!.    His troubles at charging stops are manufactured as nobody even him is that dim as forgetting how different chargers work. 

  He hit a winner and a BEV is where the benefits are with the HMRC. 

 

Up and down & across the country like a blue arsed fly and earning by filming doing it.

Nobody is interested in doing that in a Petrol, Diesel or a Hybrid even a 911. 

[logiclee]

7 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Come off it.

Up and down & across the country like a blue arsed fly and earning by filming doing it.

Nobody is interested in doing that in a Petrol, Diesel or a Hybrid even a 911. 

 

You missed the point and don't know him.

 

His plan when buying the EV was never to move the channel away from Food and Travel. That's happened by chance, the channel is probably 50/50 now. 

 

Certainly now the videos are popular he'll play to that, he'll play the analytics. 

 

Lee Davey is not the Macmaster. The Macmaster is his channel personality. 

[DavidY]

8 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

I've recently bought a nearly new Karoq but the dealer was definitely pushing the Enyaq and I could have had a delivery mileage 204PS 80 Loft Enyaq for similar money to the Karoq.  That's a massive discount on new. 

 

Yes I noticed the other day there are some Enyaq 80s looking really cheap - AutoTrader has one with delivery mileage for sub-£30K, and some others not much more.

 

I've been considering what to get to replace my Octavia (over 10 years old now) and was thinking about waiting for an updated version (Enyaq 85) or even one of the new PHEVs - especially if they did an Octavia Estate PHEV.
I'm also not sure what you lose between a new 85 and an old 80

But a £30K price tag is a little bit tempting...