I saw this video last night, very well presented.

 

It gives a very good explanation why Taycan are deprecating so much, there is a much better EV in a shape with more mass market appeal coming out, at cheaper price. There is also an oversupply of used Taycan's vs similarly rare i3. 

 

As mentioned in the video, there had been a correction in EV prices after 2022 due to difference in fuel costs, before there were unrealistic inflated EV price. Now, overall used EV depreciation is on-par with ICE cars of similar age. 

I just had a look on Autotrader at the Asking Prices of MINI Electrics.

Quite some drop in price over what the RRP,s were for them at 2-3 years old, but even at 1 year old.

Level 2 were a bit a good bit lower priced new than level 3.

 

There are ones advertised that have been doing a fair few miles and the lowest price one has 65,000 on it. 

 

I can not buy mine at 3 year old from Motability as they have stopped doing that. 

You have to ask a Dealer if they can buy it and then sell it to you. 

 

Quite likely if i want one it would be best buying just from the market than from the dealer that supplied my car. 

I will be interested in how the New Generation Cars, small and big battery do as used cars in 2 1/2 to 3 years time.

By then it will be clear if there are snagging faults or more serious issues, and how the prices have been going. 

23 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

I just had a look on Autotrader at the Asking Prices of MINI Electrics.

Quite some drop in price over what the RRP,s were for them at 2-3 years old, but even at 1 year old.

Level 2 were a bit a good bit lower priced new than level 3.

 

There are ones advertised that have been doing a fair few miles and the lowest price one has 65,000 on it. 

 

I can not buy mine at 3 year old from Motability as they have stopped doing that. 

You have to ask a Dealer if they can buy it and then sell it to you. 

 

Quite likely if i want one it would be best buying just from the market than from the dealer that supplied my car. 

I will be interested in how the New Generation Cars, small and big battery do as used cars in 2 1/2 to 3 years time.

By then it will be clear if there are snagging faults or more serious issues, and how the prices have been going. 

 

 

Talking to the supplying dealer/or the one that is doing the maintenance on Motability's behalf, about a price wouldn't hurt. You know the car you have and for them it would be a quick flip so might be an excellent deal that will be possibly less than what they would sell the car for to someone else.

@Stonekeeper  Exactly i know the car and driver.  I would not touch with your bargepole. 

 

Maintenance.

That is a Brake Fluid change @ 25,000 miles / 2 years and a look see, a pollen filter & MOT 2 months before it is 3 years old. 

Unless it does need brake pads, discs, wipers or tyres.  It will not need tyres, they are in storage until it gets handed back.

 

My last mobility cars had ridiculous prices quoted to me by Motability to buy, and i could have bought them at Auction for the money that dealers paid.

The Alhambra i had for 3 years sold at Arnold Clark,s for a lot less than they paid, and they paid less than i offered Motability for it.

But then again i know how it was used and abused and what a liability it was. 

 

PS

I first bought Ex Motability cars when i was 18 years old, Mini Automatics 3 years old from a list, sight unseen, then Metro Automatics.

1 owner amputee automatics, sold by my mum back in those days.  Automatic cars were scarce.

As Supplying Dealers got the right to Buy Back and started doing Interest Free loans. (Arnold Clark) and others it got harder to get the better condition cars. 

Edited 12 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

 

 

Time will tell.  The truth will out.

 

 

 

Was a bit surprised when speaking to Renault to swap my Arkana and Zoe in for the long range ie over 380 mile range Scenic, European car of the year and after testing I can see why.

 

Arkana a very mild hyvrid, would pay itself off but the Zoe' trade in price was thousands less than what I still owe on the pcp.

 

Renault have to take it back next year if I do not want to pay the balloon payment under the pcp deal.

 

The Zoe is a very capable ev in my view, very good range, google nav built in very good and the usual cheap servicing of many EVs.

 

So I will have to hang on to it for another year. Easy to earn money from with the 45ppm rate and energy fill ups at less than 2p per mile but I am ready for a change after nearly 3 years.

 

 

Out of interest, which Zoe is it? 40 with Type 2 only or the 50 with CCS?

 

I saw on SpeakEV marketplace a 2019 40 kWh version in nice purple for just £6000. Seems like a bargain.

 

13 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Out of interest, which Zoe is it? 40 with Type 2 only or the 50 with CCS?

 

I saw on SpeakEV marketplace a 2019 40 kWh version in nice purple for just £6000. Seems like a bargain.

 

 

Mine is actual a Riviera model which was a 300 in number limited run of the ZE50. In truth I think it was during the mad Covid times so they saw what they could put in the Zoe, saw what they could not which was in the GT line spec which was the top spec and then called in Riviera.

 

Thankfully it has the Auto braking bits which I think is important. Blind Spot alert, lane departure, traffic sign recognition and in all 17 safety measure and the shell is basically the same as the first model ie 22 kwh version, which got 5 stars EuroNCAP.  Ze50 got re-evaluated and got no stars because now, apparently, you have to have about 30 safety measures to score well. 

 

All Zoe have the annoying no seat height adjustment as this was before Renault (LG Chem) thinner battery cells so batter pack is fat ie something like 200 mm rather than on the new megane-e and Scenic where the pack is closer to 100 mm. 

 

Zoe ZE40 is a bit of a long range ,and now cheap, range demon. Rumoured to have basically the same 55 kWh gross battery pack with a quarter of cells held in reserve. Near 400 kms has been achieved in fairly normal driving conditions.  Whilst Renault toyed with 43 kW AC charging on some Ze40 models the ZE40 never got DC charging, not even 50 kW as the Ze50 has got so it is not as useful for long journeys unless not in a rush as at and one enjoys French two hour lunch/diner breaks. Personally much prefer the ZE50 exterior and interior. The Google inbuilt nav is great.   

 

Perhaps with spiralling downwards running costs due to cheaper lecky, recognition of super low servicing costs, cheap tyres and quite cheap insurance the Zoe value will either not fall any more or even start to rise again.

 

Edited 1 July, 20241 yr by lol-lol

I really could manage with a 22 kW AC charging EV. 

The issue for me was the seat height and hardness, & no arm rest, so really the cockpit.

But if i was to go with cash money to buy an used BEV the Zoe would be top of my list. 

19 hours ago, Ootohere said:

I really could manage with a 22 kW AC charging EV. 

The issue for me was the seat height and hardness, & no arm rest, so really the cockpit.

But if i was to go with cash money to buy an used BEV the Zoe would be top of my list. 

 

When my company owned Source London thousand plus chargers one could see how much a cheaper install an AC car charger was. Preferably 3 phase and 11, 16,22 or 43 kwh not a problem. 

 

DC chargers are many times the price plus they lose heaps of power going from AC to DC supply.

 

That is TOTALs business now as we sold it to that oil giant.  Fun in London dealing with over 40 Met authorities rather than in Paris where we dealt with one authority, even with London being a much bigger city it was very different.

 

Renault still trot out many of their cars with 22 kW AC charging capability. Robert llewelyn did a video on how a Zoe is faster than a Tesla. Well on 3 phase charging it is.

 

I am planning on building a three phase power supply from my future home battery setup. Especially if public charge prices do not fall soon.

 

Edited 2 July, 20241 yr by lol-lol

 

 

 

Buyers Beware.    Just use some of the brain cells you were born with!

Those Financing the purchase of a Porsche Taycan.   With Cash Money, or borrowed cash money be you a private user buyer or one getting a works car like The MacMaster.

 

They cost you money, lots in depreciation.  But then if you want a luxury / prestige Sporty Car for UK roads for getting to and from places of work or any car they do cost.

Tool of the trade really for Business Users & the Tax Payer / HMRC help out with these for work purposes.

 

'Ultimately have to replace the batteries'.

We will see how many that get a Taycan once you can for £15,000 actually replace the batteries if the car has maybe as little as 50% of the original range left.

If any get to such a power battery capacity. 

 

 

Simples.

They were stupid expensive and then people specced them up, and then fault after fault and still faults and people are nor wanting to splash out stupid money to buy used ones, or even lease used one.

But then some will, and some never learn no much how life experience they have.

They will keep driving them though, because that is why you get cars unless as collectors or investors.

 

No point getting a Porsche 911, or Even a Mecan non EV and hanging about charging stations making videos on how bad an EV is or how much money they lose. Or the person getting them might.  

 

Edited 23 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Late to the thread but is anyone compairing tradein on ICE?
I'd humbly suggest that trade in deals are worse than ever anyway. And the difference between trade-in and forecourt price has never been higher.
Maybe EVs are worse but I think ICE deals are pretty awful too.

Lets not forget TESLA Super Chargers and the cost to charge, or Porsche Charging / Ionity or those paying 1/2 the price of Public Charging he mentions.

Subscriptions / discounts etc, and nothing like 80 pence plus.

Like many with the expensive EV,s might well use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 September, 20241 yr by Ootohere

On 16/09/2024 at 16:03, Aspman said:

Late to the thread but is anyone compairing tradein on ICE?
I'd humbly suggest that trade in deals are worse than ever anyway. And the difference between trade-in and forecourt price has never been higher.
Maybe EVs are worse but I think ICE deals are pretty awful too.

 

I got an OK trade in on my Arkana mild hybrid which I needed to clear off the drive to make room for the full EV.  One has to second guess the dealer but I think they were quite happy to get a lowish mileage petrol mild hybrid which they could probably bend someone towards rather then selling a new ICE when they can only sell 3 new ICE cars for each full EV they sell to hit the 22% mandated government target.

 

I wad hoping to maybe chop in my Arkana and my Zoe but they definitely did not want the Zoe back just yet as Zie residuals and way way under the pcp balloon payment due to the flood of Zoes coming back off leases.

 

Many factors affecting particular models of EVs and ICE but some great deals out there with some great finance deals but more so for EVs I suspect. I learnt in the last few years RRP is one number in the equation. With the Zoe the dealer will not want me to just hand back the Zoe as EV 2nd hand values are relatively low, indications are they are willing to do a deal which will mathematically mean quite a big hit for the manufacturer but at least they will get the 2nd hand EV bought by the person who originally took out the PCP and they do not get another 2nd hand EV on their forecourt when they want to be selling new Renault 5 and 4 EVs.

 

That's life'.

   If you do not like it just do not play the game.   

Just get what you need for transport, look after it and run it for a long time!         (If you invest in Fine wine you might make money keeping and selling. If you just  drink it enjoy it.)

 

My heart bleeds for him & these other poor poor rich people. NOT.

 

Bargains must be around for us plebs that just want to buy these excellent vehicles....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by Ootohere

At least he acknowledges its not 'just an EV' thing. As he points out, list prices and actual sale prices of new cars has gone up massively over the last few years. EVs have turned up in volume during that time, so historically appear expensive to buy new. Unfortunately for all car buyers, the second hand car buyers -especially second owners - are not prepared or able to buy at the kind of price a 50-60% residual represents. Manufacturers could help by setting list prices as the same as what they are actually willing to sell for. The Astra EV is a prime example, where they can be bought for £8K off list. 

His program is focussed on the same effects to the supercar market and how huge the depreciation can be, but I see this as an any new car problem. An entry level Ford Focus is £27k now, far cry from when a factory worker could save up over a few years and buy a Ford Escort on 'ordinary wages'.

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

Manufacturers could help by setting list prices as the same as what they are actually willing to sell for. The Astra EV is a prime example, where they can be bought for £8K off list.

Some manufacturers, including Skoda, are moving to a business model where you don't buy the car from a dealer but actually from the manufacturer so a private individual cannot negotiate the price. I believe this will lead to an increase in the use of brokers, who can negotiate directly with the manufacturer.

2 hours ago, Luckypants said:

At least he acknowledges its not 'just an EV' thing. As he points out, list prices and actual sale prices of new cars has gone up massively over the last few years. EVs have turned up in volume during that time, so historically appear expensive to buy new. Unfortunately for all car buyers, the second hand car buyers -especially second owners - are not prepared or able to buy at the kind of price a 50-60% residual represents. Manufacturers could help by setting list prices as the same as what they are actually willing to sell for. The Astra EV is a prime example, where they can be bought for £8K off list. 

His program is focussed on the same effects to the supercar market and how huge the depreciation can be, but I see this as an any new car problem. An entry level Ford Focus is £27k now, far cry from when a factory worker could save up over a few years and buy a Ford Escort on 'ordinary wages'.

Absolutely. When we went through the lockdown car shortages when the factories and chip-fabs we're shut down car prices went through the roof. As predicted when the shortages eased the prices stayed exactly where they were.  Now we are paying luxury car prices (according our VED bands) for some very ordinary cars.
But you'll note that depreciation largely affected the buyers and less so the seller. Trade-in prices are as a poor as they ever were but second hand car prices are higher than ever so the profit margin is higher. Some of that is justified, dealers costs are higher than ever too but I would love to know if dealers margins are up.

Cars have aways been a mugs game, you just need to accept the losses on them.

Edited 5 November, 20241 yr by Aspman

There were cars and there maybe still are some that you buy new or nearly new / Pre Reg / Demonstrators and keep for 10 years or more and still sell and they have just been around £1,000 a year in depreciation.

eg, Skoda Fabia mk1 vRS,  Suzuki Jimny. 

3 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There were cars and there maybe still are some that you buy new or nearly new / Pre Reg / Demonstrators and keep for 10 years or more and still sell and they have just been around £1,000 a year in depreciation.

eg, Skoda Fabia mk1 vRS,  Suzuki Jimny. 

I think my Jimny appreciated at least on the forecourt

 

 

I have always expected cars to lose 25-30% in the first year depending upon popularity.

 

For one thing VAT is not payable 2nd hand so that is around £7,500 on a £45,000 car + 10% of the value of the car £3,750

 

leaving a 12month old car sold for £45,000 @ £33,750 and that subject to mileage