Diesel or Petrol

[simonb82]

I am looking at the Kodiaq and ideally with the 2.0 TSI 190 engine however I’m not sure of the economy and feel I may end up having to go with the 2.0 TDI 200

 

My commute is about 80 miles. Half is motorway and then the other half a combination of 50mph and heavy traffic 

 

What sort of economy would I expect from the 2.0 TSI? I’d need high 30s ideally 40mpg for it to work for me

[Kenny R]

If you’re looking to achieve 40mpg your choices are most likely to be Diesel or the 1.5 TSI that will achieve the mpg you’re looking for. 

[simonb82]

Thanks. I did consider the 1.5TSI but just not sure the power and torque would be sufficient when the car is fully loaded 

[skomaz]

We have the 1.4tsi 150 petrol 4x4 and I worried similarly but have been impressed...   Its coped very well with 4 up and the boot loaded up to the gunnels travelling from Sheffield to Belfast over the Pennines and likewise up to Lancaster. 

 

OK it's no rocket ship and I'm sure the tdi would pull better but it does us and is very quiet and smooth. 

 

As for mpg we get about 40mpg on a long run like the above but a bit less if hoofing it or really loaded up heavy but only about 30 on short runs round town. 

[BoxerBoy]

I enjoyed a couple of 190 diesels. Call it 36-38 average over 6 years.

 

I’ve just taken on a 190 petrol and enjoyed just over 500 miles in my first week.

 

Brim to brim suggests I’ll see around 32-36 mpg on mixed roads.

 

Dash showed 36 mpg on a trip almost 100 miles one day.

 

 

[BoxerBoy]

54 minutes ago, simonb82 said:

Thanks. I did consider the 1.5TSI but just not sure the power and torque would be sufficient when the car is fully loaded 

I only test drove a 190 and immediately decided a 1.5 would be disappointing.

 

”Satisfactory” for one isn’t “satisfactory” for everyone.

 

No one ever complained of “too much power”.

 

The petrol is soooo much quieter than the diesel.

[SurreyJohn]

A lot is going to depend on which spec you want, many of the tsi 190 and TDI 200 are only available in 4x4

 

eg in SEL executive trim

1.5 tsi £37,345

2.0 tsi £41,195

2.0 tdi 200 £42,870

 

You have got to buy a huge amount of fuel to recover an extra £5,535, (42870-37345), and with diesel about 15% more than petrol, its going to take forever.

 

Your 80 mile journey going to cost something like £17 in fuel in the diesel, or £19 in petrol (not going to be too accurate as pump prices vary) So going to take you around 2700 commutes to recover the extra purchase cost.  If you work about 230 days a year, that is 11 years.   If I have misunderstood and actually do 2x80 miles, it's still whopping 5.5 years to cover the extra purchase cost

 

Very few people in UK need 4x4, perhaps if you live in the hills it is justified.  But for most people could buy a set of winter wheels and tyres and not spend anywhere near the £3800 premium to get 4x4 system.

 

 

[skomaz]

8 minutes ago, BoxerBoy said:

 

No one ever complained of “too much power”.

 

 

You do have a point there...   🤣

[BoxerBoy]

13 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

A lot is going to depend on which spec you want, many of the tsi 190 and TDI 200 are only available in 4x4

 

eg in SEL executive trim

1.5 tsi £37,345

2.0 tsi £41,195

2.0 tdi 200 £42,870

 

You have got to buy a huge amount of fuel to recover an extra £5,535, (42870-37345), and with diesel about 15% more than petrol, its going to take forever.

 

Your 80 mile journey going to cost something like £17 in fuel in the diesel, or £19 in petrol (not going to be too accurate as pump prices vary) So going to take you around 2700 commutes to recover the extra purchase cost.  If you work about 230 days a year, that is 11 years.   If I have misunderstood and actually do 2x80 miles, it's still whopping 5.5 years to cover the extra purchase cost

 

Very few people in UK need 4x4, perhaps if you live in the hills it is justified.  But for most people could buy a set of winter wheels and tyres and not spend anywhere near the £3800 premium to get 4x4 system.

 

 

 

But you can’t buy a 2 wheel drive 190. Petrol or diesel. So your 190 just happens to be a 4x4.

 

And a few mpg is the least of our worries.

[Routemaster1461]

I used to be a fan of diesel. However, the general political attitude to diesel and loss of a diesel car in a crash made me think. I bought a PSA 1.2 110bhp car and it is fine. It returned over 54mpg on a 3 day break, and performs well enough, apart from not enough pull uphill. When I wanted to change our other car we bought a 1.5 TSi Karoq manual. Fuel consumption is pretty good at ~50pg, but I don't drive particularly hard. My only real issue is lack of torque at low engine speed.

 

There are several issues I have with diesel 

 

1. The cost. Diesel cars cost more to buy, not sure how much at present, but it used to be ~£1500

 

2. Cost of fuel. I have a speadsheet to calculate the breakeve mpg to cost less in fuel. At present prices with my petrol Karoq doing 50mpg, I would need to get 57 mpg to break even, and a lot better to make a significant cost saving.

 

3. The potential problems with Adblue systems. I had an early Adblue tank failure, luckily covered by warranty, and I still see so many posts on other forums about issues diagnosing the problem and the costs associated with repair.

 

4. The ever increasing isues with using diesel cars, with (I beleive) some London Boroughs refusing to issue parking permits to diesel owners. 

 

 

[Yogi-Bear]

I used to get 40mpg+ on longer journeys in my 1.4 Kodiaq… and it coped just fine going through the Massif Central and up some Pyrenean cols.

 

I can still get around 40mpg in the vRS on longer journeys, if I drive like a nun. But it’s usually more like low 30s… or low 20s on very short town trips.

 

Driving style will make a bigger difference than engine choice.

[kodiaqsportline]

18 hours ago, simonb82 said:

What sort of economy would I expect from the 2.0 TSI? I’d need high 30s ideally 40mpg for it to work for me

 

Curiosity is getting the better of me. What makes you say 40mpg from a tsi needed for it to work for you? What sort of mpg are you expecting from the tdi?

 

When I was calculating the costing a few years ago, the fact tdi Kodiaqs are not very fuel efficient questioned their viability for me. If you need  low down pulling power then fine, no problem, but if it's just down to economics, I'd worked it out that I'd have to be covering huge mileages for a tdi to benefit.

 

That said, it all depends on how the car is used. We're all different so I'm sure my average mpg is different from others who use their cars to travel short distances. Only real way to find out is see if you can get a 24hr or extended test drive and make a direct comparisson over your typical journey.

 

I have the 1.5   In my experience, the MPG on say a 40mile journey generally isn't that impressive at this time of year. It's only really over  40 miles that the mpg starts to creep up. As I say we're all drive different but in free flowing traffic with a light load, I'm disappointed to see anything under 40mpg on an 80mile journey at the moment. Fuel economy is good for me on motorway but have to admit that the mpg tails off significantly when the car goes faster than 65mph. It's very good in free flowing traffic but again, when you say heavy traffic - my 1.5 economy hates heavy traffic.

 

Thing is that whether it's just me or me + three passangers and our sports clutter, the economy doesn't seem to change that much. a few mpg at the very most I'd say.  I don;t really notice any difference in performance but then again, I'm no Damon Hill.

Edited 3 April, 2023 by kodiaqsportline

[xspartx]

Personally I believe diesels are the spawn of Satan.  Horrible clanking thudding things.   Noisy dirty and clog up if you don't do the miles.

 

That said, if you can live with the above, go for it!

 

I have a 1.5tsi and 99% of the time it does the job.  

[kodiaqsportline]

1 hour ago, xspartx said:

...and clog up if you don't do the miles.

 

You can't get away with that without offering an explanation.

[silver1011]

You need to do some maths.

 

We all know that the manufacturers claimed fuel economy is not real world, but it does often serve its purpose of more fairly comparing one vehicle to another.

 

Take the difference in MPG between your two considered models, your average annual mileage as well as the current cost of petrol and diesel in your area to get an approximate annual fuel cost for each.

 

Then offset this against the two vehicle purchase prices to see how long it might take to recoup the higher purchase price (or overall cost of leasing) of the diesel.

 

Then, be sure to drive both. I’ve had lots of VAG diesels over the years, covering big mileage and very much liked them, the Kodiaq being my first petrol. I missed some of the torque of the diesel, especially when towing, but the smoothness, quietness, lower vehicle purchase price and lower cost of petrol versus diesel swung it for me. Five years later and I’d still choose petrol.

 

Good luck!

[Routemaster1461]

8 hours ago, kodiaqsportline said:

 

You can't get away with that without offering an explanation.

Because all diesels produce soot. This is trapped in the diesel particulates filter. This fills and should be regenerated by the soot particles being burned off. Doesn't always happen, the filter clogs and the engine won't run. Also oil burning produces inorganic particles due to the sulphur and phosphorus compouds in the oil. The low SAPs oil sp[ecified reduces this but doesn't eliminate it totally, so on very high mileage cars this ash can block the filter.

 

Also bear in mind that petrol cars have GDPs (gasoline particle filters). Although there doesn't appear to be an issue with these a there s far less soot produced than from a diesel, the issue of ash may potentially be an issue for high mileage cars.

Edited 4 April, 2023 by Routemaster1461

[kodiaqsportline]

52 minutes ago, Routemaster1461 said:

Because all diesels produce soot. This is trapped in the diesel particulates filter. This fills and should be regenerated by the soot particles being burned off. Doesn't always happen, the filter clogs and the engine won't run. Also oil burning produces inorganic particles due to the sulphur and phosphorus compouds in the oil. The low SAPs oil sp[ecified reduces this but doesn't eliminate it totally, so on very high mileage cars this ash can block the filter.

 

Also bear in mind that petrol cars have GDPs (gasoline particle filters). Although there doesn't appear to be an issue with these a there s far less soot produced than from a diesel, the issue of ash may potentially be an issue for high mileage cars.

 

Thought you were going to say something along those lines.

 

A DPF clogging up relates to how a car is driven, regardless of mileage. The OP says half of his daily commute is on motorways. Are you seriously suggesting he should take in to account the DPF clogging up?

 

Stop scaremongering.

Edited 4 April, 2023 by kodiaqsportline

[silver1011]

A DPF has a finite life. The regeneration process (passive, active or forced) creates ash. This ash is stored inside the DPF and builds up the more the vehicle is driven.

 

As the ash level increases over time the DPF becomes less efficient, it therefore has to work harder by regenerating more frequently and for longer, creating more ash.

 

Even a vehicle sat at a steady and constant speed on a motorway creates soot, it’s just that the regeneration is more likely to be passive than active, but the DPF will still be working and therefore filling with ash.

 

The term ‘clog’ or blocking can be interpreted two ways. Clogging with ash as the DPF reaches end-of-life or clogging with soot as a result of repeated failed regenerations, both influenced by various factors.

[Ootohere]

A consideration if buying new or used is how long you intend keeping the petrol or diesel vehicle, so is it for a few years or is it to be a keeper.

How does the fuel consumption and servicing costs add up with your annual mileages and potential expenses.

 

If leasing and the car goes back in a few years then fuel costs might be the greater importance if you are just doing a few years of servicing. 

Only Oil & Inspection services and maybe 1 pollen filter and no haldex, DSG, Cambelt / water pump or other stuff. 

[simonharper]

On 02/04/2023 at 22:50, SurreyJohn said:

Very few people in UK need 4x4, perhaps if you live in the hills it is justified.  But for most people could buy a set of winter wheels and tyres and not spend anywhere near the £3800 premium to get 4x4 system.

 

 

4x4 is very useful for traction on wet, snowy or icy roads. Its not an off road car by any means, but the extra traction/grip comes in handy very often.

[SurreyJohn]

15 minutes ago, simonharper said:

4x4 is very useful for traction on wet, snowy or icy roads. Its not an off road car by any means, but the extra traction/grip comes in handy very often.

We can agree to disagree.  
When we had snow and ice, saw plenty of 4x4 drivers struggle or spin 4 wheels, whereas those of us with 2wd and winter tyres could pull past them.

 

 

[silver1011]

But you should compare apples to apples.

 

Fitting those same wheels and tyres from the 2WD Kodiaq to the 4x4 version would likely result in even more capability.

 

It is also worth noting that the Haldex system has benefits beyond ice and snow i.e wet and slippery surfaces but also on dry roads, gravel, or mud / wet grass and when towing, or when on the fringes of maintaining control, in an emergency situation for example.

[Vlady]

HI everyone, 

I am sorry for hijacking this thread but I think there might be no point to create another one.

I am planning (tomorrow) to take for a test drive a 2.0Tdi Kodiaq, with DSG, 7 seats, the car for my wife. Also I am thinking to test drive a 1.5Tsi DSG, the advert doesn't say if any of these a 4x4 so can't tell.

Guys, my wife does about 12k miles per year, mostly going to work to Glasgow and driving kids to football (thus a 7 seater), so I would say it is an average between motorway and city, the car is rarely fully loaded and occasionally gets 4 kids (plus driver).

What would better to go for diesel or petrol (assuming she likes both), considering service prices and a real life mpg? Mostly mpg.

Also, a diesel is a 69 plate and petrol is a70 plate (new steering wheel), is there more pronounce differences between two models? They are both SE L and as far as I can see no extras fitted. 

Thank everyone in advance.

[SurreyJohn]

@Vlady you don't give the prices, which might make one lot cheaper, but if similar then not a lot in it.  The 1.5tsi is fairly efficient, and in mixed driving the mpg difference to diesel is not as big as some think.  Allowing for diesel often being 8-10% more than petrol, even closer by types of fuel.

 

My gut feeling is if don't tow or load car up lots, and do lots of short journeys ferrying kids around, then get the petrol.

 

The 4x4 is more expensive to service, and heavier (it's extra weight is like carrying few bags of cement around all the time), so uses more fuel than 2wd.    Unless you live up steep hills can use money saved to buy decent tyres with winter rating instead of opting for 4x4

 

 

[BoxerBoy]

My current Kodiaq is a 2.0 petrol DSG. Average mpg is 33.

 

My previous 2 Kodiaqs with 2.0 diesel averaged 38 mpg.

 

Go do the sums for your needs. Your lifestyle.  

 

A little 1.5 2WD may suit.

 

A bit more grunt may be preferable.

With regard to some of the comments above, I’m very happy with 4WD and winter tyres on 17” wheels.

The car is “unstoppable “ 😀

Very comforting.

Edited 24 February by BoxerBoy