''Sport'' Mufflers, do they worth the cost?

[D.FYLAKTOS]

In the past i had a Remus muffler installed in my Felicia but after some years got a hole and i send it to recycle.

While searching for Sport mufflers in CZ stores (the phrase in Google is Sportovní výfuk ŠKODA Felicia ) i found these:

 

https://www.tuningshop.cz/sportovni-vyfuky-ultersport-skoda-felicia-1994-2001/

 

My first impression was the price, extremely high.

 

https://tuning.autodoplnky.cz/vyfuky-ulter-sport/sportovni-vyfuky-na-konkretni-vozy/smid-3904/

 

According to the description:

 

This exhaust is intended only for the following engines: 1.3 40/43/50kW, 1.6 55kW. It is equipped with E-homologation, which is valid in all EU countries.

The exhausts of the Polish company Ulter are made of noble steel protected by black coating, the ends are stainless steel. They are made precisely for a specific type and engine of the car, they stand out for their extended service life, characteristic sporty sound and increase engine performance.

Precisely specified for each car, assembly is easy. The manufacturer guarantees quality - ISO 9001:2000 certificate.

 

https://www.laityng.cz/ladene-vyfuky-felicia/vyfuk-felicia-felrov1/

 

Especially in this i saw the dimensions options:

 

95x55mm

110x58mm

120x65mm

135x70mm

 

1) What's the gain to justify the high price?

2) The shorter the muffler the less is the torque in low rpm but there is a HP gain in high rpm?

[vucko1011]

There is no point in buying any of those mufflers, they are just too expensive and chinese ****. Do you want to have a "performance" sound? If you do just get a resonator from a junkyard from any car and have it welded on your Felicia/Favorit.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

41 minutes ago, vucko1011 said:

Do you want to have a "performance" sound? If you do just get a resonator

 

I have a custom exhaust from A to Z, few years back when i changed the muffler (the inside metal partitions have been destroyed) the mechanic asked me ''do you want to make it sound?'' but i replied NO because i know that this in a trip is a nightmare for the ears.

On the other hand i am curious about the dimensions:

 

95x55mm

110x58mm

120x65mm

135x70mm

 

The difference is in sound only?

[vucko1011]

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

I have a custom exhaust from A to Z, few years back when i changed the muffler (the inside metal partitions have been destroyed) the mechanic asked me ''do you want to make it sound?'' but i replied NO because i know that this in a trip is a nightmare for the ears.

On the other hand i am curious about the dimensions:

 

95x55mm

110x58mm

120x65mm

135x70mm

 

The difference is in sound only?

The difference is in exhaust gas flow and thats it. 55mm is more then enough for 1.3/1.6 mpi and 1.9d

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, vucko1011 said:

55mm is more then enough for 1.3

 

The stock is 42 or 45mm?

[vucko1011]

9 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

The stock is 42 or 45mm?

I think stock is 42mm on 1.3 and 1.6.

On 1.9d is 50mm.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

In Greece those huge tailpipes we call them "stove pipes" 😆.

You can hear their "bouaaaa" sound from blocks away.

[hzoltaan]

Funnily enough i was thinking about the same thing, recently, though i approached it from the front end... 

I like the idea of equal length exhausts.

There's a pretty good explanation about hem here:

 

And of course they are available from CZ, 

4-1:

https://www.2racing.cz/Sportovni-svody-vyfuku-Skoda-Felicia-zavit-na-lambdu-nerez-S-0151-d167083.htm#detail-anchor-description

4-2-1

https://www.sp-el.cz/Vyfukove-svody-Felicia-Favorit-1-3-d112.htm

 

they are pretty pricey though. I could weld it together though it would be a neat exercise. 

 

Any opinion, experience with this? 

 

Original Felicia runners are already better than a lot type, but they might be too short for scavenging and well... This is something i could fabricate on long winter evenings, without taking apart the engine.

 

(by the way, there's a youtube video of a polish mechanic who grinded off material from piston rods, pistons, eventually getting rid of some 200grams of weight. car was tested on dyno, it gave him extra 15 horsepower and a bit of extra torque. He used an old car, all stock, only polished the passages in the cyl head, so that gain was only grinding off bits of the parts that make it easier and cheaper to manufacture. Great lesson. )

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, hzoltaan said:

Any opinion, experience with this? 

 

I have a custom exhaust from A to Z, if there is a gain is in high rpm but any exaggeration would be ''paid of'' in low-medium rpm.

 

As about the ''weight reduce'' in some things inside the motor is a know procedure but the last which must asked about this is the crank.

For example i have heard stories about reducing weight from the flywheel but without balancing this with the crank isn't a risk for long term use?

[hzoltaan]

A-Z? Meaning the manifold too is custom? Can you tell us more about it? Is it equal length, did someone calculate it to operate best on some RPM, and if so, does it work better on that RPM? 

So are you saying, that what you gained on higher rpms you lost on low-to-mid range? 

 

thanks!

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

44 minutes ago, hzoltaan said:

A-Z? Meaning the manifold too is custom? Can you tell us more about it? Is it equal length, did someone calculate it to operate best on some RPM, and if so, does it work better on that RPM? 

So are you saying, that what you gained on higher rpms you lost on low-to-mid range?

 

 

That was about 20 years ago in a famous exhaust maker, everything changed from the manifold till the tailgate, the steel that used was ''high'' class and not cheap that's why all these years i never had a problem.

I told him that i want the car to be ''updated'' to have some HP gain in high rpm (combined with ECU chip plus sport air filter), i also changed the catalytic converter with a metallic (was ceramic).

I lost some torque in medium rpm but i got some gain in high rpm, with 2rd or 3rd gear in the road (mountain) i could reach the 6100 rpm in sport driving (i don't like illegal racing drag style).

 

Keep in mind that those days were with no internet, no auto-forums etc so the informations were coming mainly from magazines.

Today's technicians now use computers and make things more ''calculated'' although now the steel is not always the best and with the economic crisis none Felicia (or old car) owner has the money to pay for such a custom A-Z work.

[Thefeliciahacker]

My dudes I've sat down and calculated exhaust system for our cars, you do not need 50mm

[D.FYLAKTOS]

On 09/05/2023 at 17:46, vucko1011 said:

I think stock is 42mm on 1.3

 

Mine is 45mm (outside)

 

27 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I've sat down and calculated exhaust system for our cars, you do not need 50mm

 

We measure internal or external?

[Thefeliciahacker]

19 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

We measure internal or external

I always talk about internal diameters 

 

19 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Mine is 45mm (outside)

1.5mm thickness

[D.FYLAKTOS]

32 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

1.5mm thickness

 

So actually is 42 internal.

[Thefeliciahacker]

If you want I can custom engineer an exhaust system to your liking, i.e. For economy or torque or power, I can also design custom mufflers to your taste for a very fair price, and if you are not completely satisfied with the result you get your money back. 

[Favorit Fan]

I found it cheapest and reliable to tune the 1.3 MPI engine for extra torque:

Keep the factory exhaust manifold, buy a favorit twin down pipe and have a lambda sensor fitment welded in where the two pipes join into one, and buy the favorit lambda sensor with extra length wires to fit. Then buy the rest of the favorit exhaust to fit, but replace the centre silencer with straight sleeving tube. It works because the exhaust gives a torque peak at a similar revs to standard and the MPI inlet manifold gives a second peak at 5000 rpm, safely below the red line of the engine. Obviously this method deletes the catalytic converter, so keep all your old parts and refit them for the MOT test, (or local equivalent).

[D.FYLAKTOS]

8 hours ago, Favorit Fan said:

but replace the centre silencer with straight sleeving tube. It works because the exhaust gives a torque peak at a similar revs to standard and the MPI inlet manifold gives a second peak at 5000 rpm, safely below the red line of the engine.

 

Obviously this method deletes the catalytic converter,

 

so keep all your old parts and refit them for the MOT test, (or local equivalent).

 

I think i will lose torque in low-medium rpm and i will have some noise more.

 

I have changed the catalytic converter in the past with a metallic one, some gain in high rpm but i lost it from the medium.

 

Very few do this here but in case that will stop you by Traffic Police for suddenly inspection of emissions and noise...''you are done".

[Favorit Fan]

I understand: I got around that law by fitting a Favorit engine from before catalytic converters were law, therefore they cannot force improvements onto an engine after it has been made to meet the laws at the time it was made.

[Thefeliciahacker]

On 08/06/2023 at 10:44, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Very few do this here but in case that will stop you by Traffic Police for suddenly inspection of emissions and noise...''you are done".

Nah they have to prove it. 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

36 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Nah they have to prove it. 

 

If they got the equipment and the willing to give fines (tickets) because the Chief asked it, they will.

[Thefeliciahacker]

They are not engineers they can't... 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Even their radar detectors (aka "pistols") are not propely calibrated but they still give tickets to drivers even for 5-10 km overspeeding.

In the past i have seen Police mini-vans with portable equipment checking emissions and db noise especially the motorcycles.

[Thefeliciahacker]

Yes but in order for a noise test to be valid it needs to be performed under certain test conditions. 

Ie the same that the car was subjected to when it got the declaration of conformity. 

These test conditions are mandated by the E.E.C. Not by me or you, and I can guarantee you that the cannot be met on the side of the road therefore their assessment is invalid, and cannot be used to cite you. 

 

Edited 26 June, 2023 by Thefeliciahacker

[Thefeliciahacker]

For example the rpm needs to be held at a certain level with less than 50 rpm accuracy for at least 3 seconds. Not doable by a human with his foot on the accelerator. If there is any flactuation that test is invalidated and should be performed again.