Dreaded water pump , thermostat housing leak. Goodwill refused at the main dealer. Should I go to Skoda UK?

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

Hello everyone, I hope you're all well.

 

I bought my 2014 VRS petrol from Skoda Coventry in 2016, with just 13,000 miles.

 

Since then, she's been serviced at Skoda main dealers in the South where I live. I find main dealer prices to be reasonable, plus I like having a decent courtesy car etc. Also, I thought it would be useful to have FSSH in case of any problems.

 

Having now covered 60,000 miles, she was in for a service last week. The tech noted that the water pump / thermostat housing was weeping. I authorised a replacement, because I had to have the car back, and I wouldn't want to risk a catastrophic failure, obviously. The bill was circa £900.

 

I asked that as the car had only 60k on the clock, and had a full Skoda service history, if there might be some goodwill. They refused, saying that basically nothing over five years old is eligible. They gave me a printout of the 'computer says no' application they did.

 

Having done some research, I feel a little disappointed, because as we can see, the original part is prone to failure, and the new part is revised to avoid the issue. Hence, it's a fault known by Skoda.

 

So, I wonder if anyone might help me, as I am thinking about writing to Skoda UK to ask? Has anyone done that, and been successful?

 

I'd be really grateful for your assistance. Thanks all!

 

Edited 14 August, 2023 by Ray Luxury-Yacht

[Gabbo]

At the time a few years ago Skoda were offering at least 50% goodwill payment for those out of warranty. Check the pinned thread.

 

I think it would be worth to contact Skoda UK as based on the mileage of your car & manufacturing date it would fit with the water pump fault.

 

Did the garage also replace the timing belt when they changed the pump?

60k miles is early but it doesn't add any real cost to the work as it must be removed anyway as I understand.

 

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

Having done some research, I feel a little disappointed, because as we can see, the original part is prone to failure, and the new part is revised to avoid the issue. Hence, it's a fault known by Skoda.

 

You are joking right?

 

You have a nine year old car bought second hand and you think the manufacturers should be shelling out for a repair, at what stage does that cease to be reasonable? 10 years, 15, 20? And for how many owners down the line?

 

When I started motoring you were lucky if a new car got through its first MOT without needing chassis welding, Lancias were being brought back from the owners and crushed before they got to the first MOT.

 

A vehicle would never get beyond 40K miles before needing a decoke and valve grind, by 60K miles the valve train would be rattling and the crankcase smoking with piston blowby, the big ends and main bearings would not last much longer.

 

Exhausts? Lucky if the OE one lasted till the first MOT, the replacement would manage 18 months on average.

 

Vehicles have got far more reliable and for some reason peoples expectations of the manufacturer have become much higher even when they did not buy the vehicle new and after many years.

 

They still dont owe anybody anything after the initial warranty period which is double what it was not so long ago.

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

You are joking right?

 

You have a nine year old car bought second hand and you think the manufacturers should be shelling out for a repair, at what stage does that cease to be reasonable? 10 years, 15, 20? And for how many owners down the line?

 

When I started motoring you were lucky if a new car got through its first MOT without needing chassis welding, Lancias were being brought back from the owners and crushed before they got to the first MOT.

 

A vehicle would never get beyond 40K miles before needing a decoke and valve grind, by 60K miles the valve train would be rattling and the crankcase smoking with piston blowby, the big ends and main bearings would not last much longer.

 

Exhausts? Lucky if the OE one lasted till the first MOT, the replacement would manage 18 months on average.

 

Vehicles have got far more reliable and for some reason peoples expectations of the manufacturer have become much higher even when they did not buy the vehicle new and after many years.

 

They still dont owe anybody anything after the initial warranty period which is double what it was not so long ago.

 

You're right of course, and I do get that. But the aggravating factor is that they know full well that the first iteration of the pump is a bad design prone to failure, which is obviated by the new design. And so, come consumer rights might suggest that it was 'not fit for purpose' from day one?

 

[J.R.]

Indeed but this is now day Three Thousand Five Hundred and you did not purchase the vehicle from the manufacturer.

 

Is there even a completely new design of pump or simply a later revision which will usually be cost saving changes to manufacture.

 

In the case of the concentric clutch slave cylinders there was never an issue with the original aluminium one but the plastic replacement, a new design is failing right left and centre.

[Ootohere]

The water pump lasted 9 years. Winner. 

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

3 minutes ago, toot said:

The water pump lasted 9 years. Winner. 

 

Hahaha fair comment!!!

[Gabbo]

8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Is there even a completely new design of pump or simply a later revision which will usually be cost saving changes to manufacture.

 

If I remember right, it was an attempt at a cost saved part with plastic sleeve which would stick as it expanded at a different rate from cold than the metal parts.

 

The replacement was with a metal sleeve so it really was a known defective design, hence Skoda offering 50-100% of the costs at the time.

[Gabbo]

34 minutes ago, Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

 

You're right of course, and I do get that. But the aggravating factor is that they know full well that the first iteration of the pump is a bad design prone to failure, which is obviated by the new design. And so, come consumer rights might suggest that it was 'not fit for purpose' from day one?

 

In the end it can't hurt to try, I would give them the details & that it was bought from a main skoda dealer, services directly at a main skoda dealer.

A small contribution from them won't break the bank & would make a big difference to your satisfaction with the brand & likelihood to buy Czech again in the future

[ords]

Was the timing belt replaced when it got to 5 years old as recommended  by Skoda UK?  A new pump should have been fitted then. If you can prove it was, then there is a better chance of a goodwill gesture.

[J.R.]

As used  to be recommended!

 

Another benefit for them.

 

From the above if its correct amongst all the hearsay, then the original design pump was fit for purpose, it was the cheaper to manufacture later (first?) revision that caused all the problems.

 

So not only were they screwing UK customers to have cam belts fitted on a time/mileage basis that was not the case in the rest of the world they were insisting that the waterpump had to be replaced at the same time and then fitting an inferior part which would subsequently fail and in doing so reinforce the legend that the pump must be changed as a precaution when the cam belt was unnecessarily replaced.

 

And even with this superb merry go round that they created I surmise that the dealerships were screwing up this magic money tree so much that it was costing Skoda UK too much in claims that they did the recent U turn over the cam belt replacement, less income for the dealers but that is not a concern to Skoda UK, they still have all the other means of extracting money from owners who cannot or will not do their own repairs.

 

A reliable vehicle only benefits the owner and subsequent owners, not the manufacturer other than selling more units at a slightly higher price, and certainly not the dealers.

[TheClient]

The OP hasn't said its a tdi like has been assumed and there's no car info in a signature. Looking back at an old post, I think it's the petrol vrs ea888 gen 3.

 

Anyway, despite this, exactly the same comments apply as already made by responders. 

 

I've just replaced our at 75k, 6.5 years. Bit of a pain of a job on ghe drive. Having seen first hand the TMU in all its glory I wouldn't expect any different than another 6 years or 70k for the new one, maximum. 

 

Mine was leaking pretty small amounts through the plastic shaft bushes and leaked into the pcb housing and fried the electronics. There's a lot of rotational movement by servo motor running  due to the constant adjustment to optimise engine temps and warm up and the design just isn't made to last forever. Consider it a maintenance item  and you did well to get 9 years. 

Edited 15 August, 2023 by TheClient

[Ootohere]

Clear in the OP that they bought a vRS petrol.

[J.R.]

So the petrol EA88 has a TMU, thermal management unit?

 

Servo motors and PCB, just when you thought it would not be possible to further overcomplicate what used to be the simplest component of a motor vehicle 😒

[ords]

16 hours ago, ords said:

Was the timing belt replaced when it got to 5 years old as recommended  by Skoda UK?  A new pump should have been fitted then. If you can prove it was, then there is a better chance of a goodwill gesture.

I'll amend that "as used to be recommended". Should still have been done going by guidelines in place at that time.

[TheClient]

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

So the petrol EA88 has a TMU, thermal management unit?

 

Servo motors and PCB, just when you thought it would not be possible to further overcomplicate what used to be the simplest component of a motor vehicle 😒

Yep. Maybe they call it a TMCU (or a TMU) either way, it is exactly as you imagine. A big lump of plastic with a main valve inside operated by a servo motor, shafts with plastic bushes all controlled by a pcb (and the instructions from the ecu). I also believe there are another 2 bypass valves of some sort, mechanical or eletro mechanical inside,  I'm not sure.

 

It's a pita to get to. A pita to Reinstall  - there's a floating plastic union pipe that has to be aligned blind to the oil cooler, the locater lugs for the body can only be used by feel carefully whilst leaning a pretty big lump of plastic in under the manifold.

 

There is a massive intake manifold all sitting above it, unless you remove that as well!

 

I was so fed up with the job after I put it all back together and still had a permanent fault I threw the old unit in the bin  -  no strip down and look inside.... It didn't half smell either from the fried  Cct board.

 

What was the fault I hear you ask, well, when I plugged the thermostat back in, it turned out, unknown to me at the time,  the plug ring seal had got rolled and caught up and it stopped the plug seating home. I didn't know that until everything was back together. Required me to strip out the rad fans and a main rad hose again oh and the dreaded intercooler pipework that runs along the lower front edge of engine behind the rads. Two bolts in very tricky locations whilst laying on my back on a gravel drive!  

 

Took me 2 days in the end. To save maybe £500.   Joys! 

Edited 15 August, 2023 by TheClient

[J.R.]

I thought you worked in the Motor Trade in some capacity so was surprised to hear you have to grovel on your back like most of the rest of us Plebs!

[rich_hodgetts]

I have just had this job done on my 2016 VRS EA888 Gen 3, 50k miles. I had been topping up coolant for well over a year, putting off the expense of the job. In the end, it was getting through half a litre a week and so time to get it done. I also had an engine warning light P2681 - Engine Coolant Bypass Valve Control circuit open. Each time I reset this, it would be back on within 30 mins of driving and so was unlikely to get through its next MOT.

 

I got my usual non-specialist, independent garage to do this job (as others have said, I have done a bit of DIY work on cars but this job is a not a simple one). 

 

I was quoted £660 fitted including VAT which is less than I was expecting (South Birmingham area). They did the job without hassle and the issue is fixed. I am not sure if an original or pattern part was fitted - it was Schaeffler branded.

 

I asked for the old part back so I could autopsy. There is a circuit board controlling a motorized valve, this board is not potted and so should be dry - it wasn't and had obvious corrosion. This appears to have been the cause of the P2681 error. The water pump impeller was plastic and there was evidence of cracks forming around the shaft and so that's another potential issue sorted.

 

If anyone would like details of the garage I used for this job, please feel free to send a PM.

 

Rich

 

 

[TheClient]

1 hour ago, rich_hodgetts said:

I have just had this job done on my 2016 VRS EA888 Gen 3, 50k miles. I had been topping up coolant for well over a year, putting off the expense of the job. In the end, it was getting through half a litre a week and so time to get it done. I also had an engine warning light P2681 - Engine Coolant Bypass Valve Control circuit open. Each time I reset this, it would be back on within 30 mins of driving and so was unlikely to get through its next MOT.

 

I got my usual non-specialist, independent garage to do this job (as others have said, I have done a bit of DIY work on cars but this job is a not a simple one). 

 

I was quoted £660 fitted including VAT which is less than I was expecting (South Birmingham area). They did the job without hassle and the issue is fixed. I am not sure if an original or pattern part was fitted - it was Schaeffler branded.

 

I asked for the old part back so I could autopsy. There is a circuit board controlling a motorized valve, this board is not potted and so should be dry - it wasn't and had obvious corrosion. This appears to have been the cause of the P2681 error. The water pump impeller was plastic and there was evidence of cracks forming around the shaft and so that's another potential issue sorted.

 

If anyone would like details of the garage I used for this job, please feel free to send a PM.

 

Rich

 

 

Exactly as per mine including the error code. £660 is a bit of a bargain. The oem part is schaeffler ina made. Yours will probably be aftermarket, same as what I put in. Should be more or less identical. Is about £300 or more on its own,! For that price I may not have dealt with the backache and hassle of doing it myself. It's very reasonable.