11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I really can't see how they can at this stage confidently state that the fire was started by the diesel car, because they fire dept did not arrive at scene for 10 minutes according their own timetable of events, by which time it had already spread.

There are many eye witnesses, multiple videos and possibly even statement from vehicle driver. At this stage, how you are actively questioning the official statement is.......

 

Different angle of the vehicle you've quoted. Clearly not parked and the owner or people helping had the time to get fire extinguisher.

5 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Another video emerged from a different angle, showing license plate:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712232395049422942

 

33 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The flames appear to be centred below the Range Rover and the on the left side. The fuel tank is located at the rear, above the axle, but that did not seem to be on fire, otherwise the flames would have been coming up from the rear and over the bumper and tailgate area. I'm wondering if the fire was in fact somewhere to the front and to the left of the Range Rover, possibly? If that is correct, what happened to the driver of the Range Rover?

Correct. Looks like engine bay fire. The driver has probably already given statements to the authorities.

 

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

There was the Jag i-pace EV recall due to battery fire risk.

 

I searched "Range Rover fire", there is also recalls regarding fire risk. The 2 recalls are exclusively related to assembly faults that would make the ICE a fire risk.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/10/range-rover-fire-recalls/?guccounter=1

 

 

Swings and roundabouts. Nothing is perfect and nothing have zero fire risk.

 

In case you've missed it, see my post earlier regarding JLR ICE fire recall. ICE are a fire risk and ICE cars with plastic fuel tank spread fire very quickly. Only reason this diesel vehicle fire is in the news is because it destroyed a car park. Whereas every single EV fire will be blown up by the media big time.

 

 

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

There was the Jag i-pace EV recall due to battery fire risk.

 

I searched "Range Rover fire", there is also recalls regarding fire risk. The 2 recalls are exclusively related to assembly faults that would make the ICE a fire risk.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/04/10/range-rover-fire-recalls/?guccounter=1

 

 

Swings and roundabouts. Nothing is perfect and nothing have zero fire risk.

I also looked at Range Rover and discovered that they did do diesel MHEV model and so perhaps there might have been a diesel PHEV before that maybe? Who knows?

 

NEW 48V MILD HYBRID DIESEL JOINS PLUG-IN ELECTRIC RANGE ROVER | Land Rover Media Newsroom

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

39 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

There are many eye witnesses, multiple videos and possibly even statement from vehicle driver. At this stage, how you are actively questioning the official statement is.......

 

Different angle of the vehicle you've quoted. Clearly not parked and the owner or people helping had the time to get fire extinguisher.

 

Correct. Looks like engine bay fire. The driver has probably already given statements to the authorities.

 

 

In case you've missed it, see my post earlier regarding JLR ICE fire recall. ICE are a fire risk and ICE cars with plastic fuel tank spread fire very quickly. Only reason this diesel vehicle fire is in the news is because it destroyed a car park. Whereas every single EV fire will be blown up by the media big time.

 

 

Yes, thanks for this link to the video, it does indeed confirm my thoughts were indeed correct, it was not parked but being driven at the time. From the rearview the lights were seen to be on but in this front view, they are off, possibly because the wiring had been burnt though?

 

Now DVLA show this a diesel registered 2014 and is a red Land Rover (Range Rover), and the way the fire is emanating from the lower side of the car and shooting outwards is not typical of a diesel fire, which tends to smoke before it actually starts to burn, hence why they don't use spark plugs in diesel engines, it needs very high temperatures before it burn and hence the very high compression of diesel engine in order to ignite the fuel. 

 

It does appear to have the hallmarks of an EV type in the video, but I may be wrong. I just wonder if it has been converted either into a full-blown EV by someone like Electric Classic Cars or one of the many other conversion companies or maybe a DIY conversion, and nobody had informed the DVLA? No doubt in the fullness of time the truth will emerge one way or the other. The only thing we can say with 100% confidence is that the fire and all the damage and suffering caused by it is regrettable and that had the exposed steel framework of the car park been protected by a concrete jacket then the damage might not have been as bad or collapsed.

 

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

It does appear to have the hallmarks of an EV type in the video, but I may be wrong. I just wonder if it has been converted either into a full-blown EV by someone like Electric Classic Cars or one of the many other conversion companies or maybe a DIY conversion, and nobody had informed the DVLA? No doubt in the fullness of time the truth will emerge one way or the other. 

How can the car be in any shape or form remotely related to EV? 

 

How can you even drag in EV in any shape or form when it clearly is an ICE related fire. 

 

You say you are not biased against EV's. But you clearly have an agenda, or so blind you cannot bring yourself to believe multiple layers of facts being presented. 

22 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I just wonder if it has been converted either into a full-blown EV by someone like Electric Classic Cars or one of the many other conversion companies or maybe a DIY conversion, and nobody had informed the DVLA? 

 

Now you're really clutching at straws, Graham. 

7 minutes ago, @Lee said:

 

Now you're really clutching at straws, Graham. 

No straw clutching or trying to shift the blame, just saying it is a possibility, and that the truth will be uncovered in the fullness of time. Can you claim 100% that it is not a possibility then?

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

7 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No straw clutching or trying to shift the blame, just saying it is a possibility, and that the truth will be uncovered in the fullness of time. Can you claim 100% that it is not a possibility then?

Yes!

 

We have eye witnesses. We have videos from different angle. We have statement from fire department.

 

What more can you possibly want? That everyone is in on a cover up?

Maybe it was transporting EV batteries.........................................

 

And gas cylinders, and jerrycans of petrol, and signal flares, and kindling, and wire wool..............😀

We are just missing the use of  the actions of a 'Terrorist / Freedom Fighter'. 

 

  Reference to the Glasgow Terminal fire in 2007 when a blazing Jeep Cherokee was used in the attack & the hero Smeato saved the day.

 

Bound to be some crazy thinking stuff the garden heaters and gas bottles i will use an EV. 

@Toot - just looking at local news. Thought it may interest you. May or may not have some relevance to this topic:

 

Cameron Motors Perth

 

😲

 

Picture shows the VW dealership. Not sure their layout these days but the blaze looks to be around what was the workshop area. Their workshop used to serve both VW and Audi showroom next door. Lot's of Audi EV's  !

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by kodiaqsportline

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

How can the car be in any shape or form remotely related to EV? 

 

How can you even drag in EV in any shape or form when it clearly is an ICE related fire. 

 

You say you are not biased against EV's. But you clearly have an agenda, or so blind you cannot bring yourself to believe multiple layers of facts being presented. 

I did not say the car, but the fire had the hallmarks of a EV battery fire. I cannot prove this either way and I did also say that the truth will be learned in time. Yes the car is or started life as a diesel.

 

Can you not see from the fire is shooting out sideways to the left of the car looks very similar to the many online videos of confirmed EV fires where the flames shoot out to the side like a flamethrower? If it was burning fuel on the ground, then the direction of the flames would normally be more upright, would they not, that is what I have always seen when fuel on the ground is on fire, and I used to be a member of the English Electric Valve and Marconi Fire Force in Chelmsford so have had training in fires and types of fires and how to gain some idea of the best way to tackle a fire much of which depends on what is burning and water is the last thing you put on an oil fire.

 

Plastic fuel tanks, or indeed metal ones in any front-engined car are located at the rear of vehicles and are normally between the rear wheel wells for maximum protection in a RTA, and in the video the fire is well forward of that location and has a flamethrower appearance to the left.

 

Take another look at the video on X and judge for yourself.

 

There is a reason why I did not post my initial report in the truth about EV cars thread because this clearly is not a confirmed EV, it is currently at diesel as far as anyone knows, only the owner knows for sure. 

 

Now can we please stop trying to shift blame and point scoring, my comments were related purely to the appearance of the fire itself, not the car. People do carry out modifications to their cars such as Nitrous Oxide injection etc and that might have been done here, in which case, while the gas is not flammable, it does indeed provide a massive amount of extra oxygen to fires to make then burn fiercer and hotter, and if that conversion had been done and leaked under pressure it could perhaps create what the video shows.

 

I'm keeping an open mind on the cause of the fire, apart from as the video shows, it did start with the Range Rover, which was being driven, and I have lots of experience of diesel engines of all sizes and diesel fires are rare, and I have never seen a pure diesel fire exhibit such flame throwing capability without some other force being applied to it, which is not normally found in standard cars. 

 

Are Wizards of NOS Nitrous Oxide Systems legal on road cars? (noswizard.com)

 

Is Nitrous Oxide Flammable? Yes and No… (firefighterinsider.com)

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

42 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Yes!

 

We have eye witnesses. We have videos from different angle. We have statement from fire department.

 

What more can you possibly want? That everyone is in on a cover up?

Oh such a closed mind.

10 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I did not say the car, but the fire had the hallmarks of a EV battery fire. I cannot prove this either way and I did also say that the truth will be learned in time. Yes the car is or started life as a diesel.

 

this clearly is not a confirmed EV, it is currently at diesel as far as anyone knows, only the owner knows for sure. 

 

Now can we please stop trying to shift blame and point scoring, my comments were related purely to the appearance of the fire itself, not the car.

I'm only blaming you for having the ability to link a non electrified diesel vehicle fire to EV.

 

Having hallmark of battery fire does not mean it is battery fire. But you insist it is relatable to EV's.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I just wonder if it has been converted either into a full-blown EV

 

 

9 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Oh such a closed mind.

Please elaborate. As opposed to your open mind and your belief in an alternative reality? 🤪

 

Has it occurred to you the driver/owner of vehicle were at the scene and may have already given statement to the authorities? What more do you need to have it confirm it's not EV?

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by wyx087

55 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I'm only blaming you for having the ability to link a non electrified diesel vehicle fire to EV.

 

Having hallmark of battery fire does not mean it is battery fire. But you insist it is relatable to EV's.

 

 

Please elaborate. As opposed to your open mind and your belief in an alternative reality? 🤪

 

Has it occurred to you the driver/owner of vehicle were at the scene and may have already given statement to the authorities? What more do you need to have it confirm it's not EV?

 Please show me where I claim that the Range Rover was in fact a EV, here is a spoiler for you, I have never said that it was. But equally, how can you be so sure that it has not been converted? There are many companies out there who specialise in doing such conversions, including the one who you love to splash links to because he has a YT channel. 

 

What I said was that the fire as shown in the front on video has all the hallmarks of an EV with its jet of fire being propelled from the left side of the vehicle just as in this video of a confirmed EV as it was on charge at the time. Maybe there might be more videos emerging in due course of the Luton fire that will help to clear up the issue

 

 

Compare that one, once the flames appear to the video that you actually linked, can you not see any resemblance at all?

 

Andy on X: "@ItsBillN @petersharding Front View and plate E10 EFL https://t.co/DooHo7P13m" / X (twitter.com)

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Can you not see from the fire is shooting out sideways to the left of the car looks very similar to the many online videos of confirmed EV fires where the flames shoot out to the side like a flamethrower?

 

No I can't.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

If it was burning fuel on the ground, then the direction of the flames would normally be more upright, would they not,

 

They are and fuel burning on the ground having run in the direction of the floor fall is exactly what it looks like, the colour of the flames also although I dont see black smoke, I am guessing that the side walls are open like many multi-story car parks or they have a désenfumage system.

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by J.R.

Good grief 🤦‍♂️

1 hour ago, kodiaqsportline said:

@Toot - just looking at local news. Thought it may interest you. May or may not have some relevance to this topic:

 

Cameron Motors Perth

 

😲

 

Picture shows the VW dealership. Not sure their layout these days but the blaze looks to be around what was the workshop area. Their workshop used to serve both VW and Audi showroom next door. Lot's of Audi EV's  !

Toot has already posted this link as well.

5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

No I can't.

 

They are and fuel burning on the ground having run in the direction of the floor fall is exactly what it looks like, the colour of the flames also although I dont see black smoke, I am guessing that the side walls are open like many multi-story car parks or they have a désenfumage system.

Yes it might well be just diesel burning on the ground, but as a person who used to have to go on nearly 100 diesel powered buses, early on a cold morning with piece of rag soaked in diesel attached to the end of a long handle, with the rag burning and shove that burning into the air intake on Gardner 5 and 6 cylinder diesels engines to get them started in order to warm them up before the crews came into work and diesel is very hard to ignite in the first instance and when it does, tends to burn with low intensity, a more yellowish flame with black smoke. That videos has a different appearance.

 

AS I have said all the way through this thread, I'm only commenting on the fire itself, it is you lot who are not reading what I'm writing and thus convincing your selves of something that is not factual.

LPG can be used with Diesels not just Petrol engines.

 

Then my Diesel 110 Land Rover 4.6 V8 Auto ran on LPG only and had no petrol tank.

Customs at a ferry port wanted to dip the tank i told them there was no diesel tank or engine & no petrol tank only 2 LPG ones. 

They wanted to open them. 

I never used the 'Bomb' word but never got on the Ferry. 

Then they started on Towing for Gain or Reward and No Tacho.  I pointed out not required with alternative fuels, then it went all stupid.  

I asked them if they had any clue on vehicles other than tearing them apart.

 

http://v8engines.com

 

My cookers next to the Big LPG tank, the other one was under my bum when the bed was made up, so i had no chance to kiss it good bye.

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by toot

25 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

AS I have said all the way through this thread, I'm only commenting on the fire itself, it is you lot who are not reading what I'm writing and thus convincing your selves of something that is not factual.

 

People have been reading what you've posted including your utterly ridiculous 'BUT WHAT IF IT HAD BEEN CONVERTED TO EV aNd NoBoDy ToLd ThE dVlA' guff 🤪

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by @Lee

I returned from a funeral overseas just 24 hours before this incident collecting my parked car on level 2. I was thinking about extending my stay, lucky that my wife said no.

 

Having driven and walked there, I have clear recollection of the layout. I can confirm the car pictured in the press, was definitely not in a parking slot but on one of the parallel access lanes and a considerable distance from the end.

 

 

Edited 12 October, 20232 yr by xman

9 minutes ago, @Lee said:

 

People have been reading what you've posted including your utterly ridiculous 'BUT WHAT IF IT HAD BEEN CONVERTED TO EV aNd NoBoDy ToLd ThE dVlA' guff 🤪

Well, done; you win a block!

Ken Block reincarnated!!!!!!!!

49 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

it is you lot who are not reading what I'm writing

 

Guilty as charged, the rambles down memory lane in the bus garage or a 60 year detailed curriculum vitae do make me skip paragraphs in the hope of finding something of relevance.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

 Please show me where I claim that the Range Rover was in fact a EV, here is a spoiler for you, I have never said that it was. But equally, how can you be so sure that it has not been converted? There are many companies out there who specialise in doing such conversions, including the one who you love to splash links to because he has a YT channel. 

 

What I said was that the fire as shown in the front on video has all the hallmarks of an EV with its jet of fire being propelled from the left side of the vehicle just as in this video of a confirmed EV as it was on charge at the time. Maybe there might be more videos emerging in due course of the Luton fire that will help to clear up the issue

So we are flame experts now?

 

Still haven't elaborated on why I'm close minded.

Is there something you want to share regarding your view the general state of mass media and how information that doesn't agree with your view point is a cover up?