Just now, Breezy_Pete said:

When you changed the oil filter did you also change the oil?

 

No - I didn't.

 

I know you're meant to but I was so desperate to get it sorted and it went straight into the garage after.

Well worth doing in case something like an injector fault is diluting the oil.

6 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

Well worth doing in case something like an injector fault is diluting the oil.

 

It's booked in with another garage next Thursday.

 

I might try that depending on what I've got in the garage, I can't say I've completely changed the oil since I've purchased it in August.

20 minutes ago, vRSRutty said:

Another garage (which I'll be taking it to once I collect mine tomorrow) suggested dropping the sump and checking the pickup pipe etc, also mentioned the oil pump itself.

 

I'm pleased that you have found a garage that appears to be on planet sensible.

 

Its been close to 30 years now that vehicles have had superb crankshaft driven oil pumps with none of the fragility of previous generations, the first I came across was on the Ford Zetec engines, they have so much reserve capacity that it really takes a lot of FOD (foreign object damage) to make them underperform and which would usually cause other engine issues. A partially blocked pick up pipe is a strong contender.

16 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

I'm pleased that you have found a garage that appears to be on planet sensible.

 

Its been close to 30 years now that vehicles have had superb crankshaft driven oil pumps with none of the fragility of previous generations, the first I came across was on the Ford Zetec engines, they have so much reserve capacity that it really takes a lot of FOD (foreign object damage) to make them underperform and which would usually cause other engine issues. A partially blocked pick up pipe is a strong contender.

 

Hoping that's the case, will be devastated if I lose the car, haven't had it even 6 months.

 

But SURELY the other garage would've done that?

Edited 23 November, 20232 yr by vRSRutty

Hi all, 

 

On the topic of engine rebuilds, if I were looking to purchase a new CHHB engine, where would I be looking?

 

Has anyone used a company specifically before? 

 

Thanks

18 hours ago, vRSRutty said:

Hi @Breezy_Pete @TheClient

 

Garage got back to me with the diagnosis this afternoon, it's a genuine oil pressure issue, the lady mentioned that my car operates at 0.4 bar (when idling, I'd imagine), which is below what it should be.

 

They've said it's basically irreparable and requires a new engine, and have quoted me £8800, not including labour.

 

Devastated isn't even the word, I just can't understand how it can just be faulty with no fix other than to replace the entire engine, but hey ho.

 

Thanks for all your help.  

Oh boy. Sigh. Slightly bad news there then.....

 

I can only assume they are *very* confident there is a big issue that can't be fixed but I'd want to /  need to -  understand their diagnosis process and what's ruled out before opening my wallet for £9k+.!!!!!!

 

Can you ask to speak to the diagnosing tech or even better ask for a report on the diagnosis and tests carried out and conclusion so far.

 

You may well have to pay for their work so far irrespective, but that's probably fair in most instances. Unless they said something else at the outset..

 

I know you changed the filter earlier but the drain rod that sits in the centre and connecting to the inside plastic filter housing cover. It usually comes out when you pull out the cap.  Does this look intact and orings ok and fit positively into drain recess beneath oil filter when you remove / refit? Definitely?

 

There is an updated spring tensioned version rather than the stick version my my16 came with but if it is sealing either version should work. I put the newer version in mine.

 

If it does not seal the drain below the filter it will cause oil pressure problems 100pc. It allows the oil to drain out as you remove the cap. 

 

If they have dismissed replacing the oil pump they must believe there are massive bearing journal clearances creating lack of pressure..  that's my current hypothesis of what they're thinking. But how have they reached it or what ever their actual diagnosis is.. . Is important to you clearly.

 

Is the car manual? Does it have upgraded clutch items? 

 

I hope they're wrong but if their experience and reputation is good and there is good evidence of diagnosis of why they've said this. At this point, I can't make an opinion on it.

 

 But clearly the response is massively concerning. You'd think they would be aware you gonna want a little bit more discussion than a phonecall for auth of £9k!! Or have your car back, it can't be fixed. Maybe they will fill the missing pieces on collection... 

 

Edited 24 November, 20232 yr by TheClient

1 minute ago, TheClient said:

Oh boy. Sigh. Slightly bad news there then.....

 

I can only assume they are *very* confident there is a big issue that can't be fixed but I'd want to /  need to -  understand their diagnosis process and what's ruled out before opening my wallet for £9k+.!!!!!!

 

Can you ask to speak to the diagnosing tech or even better ask for a report on the diagnosis and tests carried out and conclusion so far.

 

You may well have to pay for their work so far irrespective, but that's probably fair in most instances. Unless they said something else at the outset..

 

I know you changed the filter earlier but the drain rod that sits in the centre and connecting to the inside plastic filter housing cover. It usually comes put when you pull out the cap.  Does this look intact and orings ok and fit positively into drain recess beneath oil filter when you remove / refit? Definitely?

 

There is an updated spring tensioned version rather than the stick version my my16 came with but if it is sealing either version should work. I put the newer version in mine.

 

If it does not seal the drain below the filter it will cause oil pressure problems 100pc. It allows the oil to drain out as you remove the cap. 

 

If they have dismissed replacing the oil pump they must believe there are massive bearing journal clearances creating lack of pressure..  that's my current hypothesis of what they're thinking. But how have they reached it or what ever their actual diagnosis is.. . Is important to you clearly.

 

Is the car manual? Does it have upgraded clutch items? 

 

I hope they're wrong but if their experience and reputation is good and there is good evidence of diagnosis of why they've said this. At this point, I can't make an opinion on it.

 

 But clearly the response is massively concerning. You'd think they would be aware you gonna want a little bit more discussion than a phonecall for auth of £9k!! Or have your car back, it can't be fixed. Maybe they will fill the missing pieces on collection... 

 

 

I'll have to check the tensioner once it's back home, it did come out with the filter but I never paid attention to it.

 

It's a manual, and had the clutch replaced some time before I purchased it.

 

I'll get more information once I'm there, but I'll be seeking a second opinion on the off chance (obviously depending on what they say led them to the £9000 quote)

 

It'll be on the driveway until Thursday regardless so I'll have some time to look over it and do what yourself and@Breezy_Pete suggested.

 

Paying £9000 is 100% out of the question, if it comes to it, I'd either sell it on (obviously disclosing the issues) or have the engine remanufactured/reconditioned.

16 hours ago, vRSRutty said:

 

No - I didn't.

 

I know you're meant to but I was so desperate to get it sorted and it went straight into the garage after.

The filter itself is just a cartridge type. Has no integral valve. The housing and screw on cap uses a drain stick that releases the oil as you remove. That's the bit I'm interested in. 

 

@vRSRutty did you notice that?

 

As others have pointed out, draining the oil would allow inspection for sparkly contaminants. The old cartridge oil filter would of allowed inspection as well. Did you look in the folds? 

1 minute ago, TheClient said:

The filter itself is just a cartridge type. Has no integral valve. The housing and screw on cap uses a drain stick that releases the oil as you remove. That's the bit I'm interested in. 

 

@vRSRutty did you notice that?

 

As others have pointed out, draining the oil would allow inspection for sparkly contaminants. The old cartridge oil filter would have allowed inspection as well. Did you look in the folds? 

 

Yeah, I think I know what you're in about, the filter almost 'slots' around it?

 

If I remember correctly, when I pulled the housing out the, the tensioner thingy with the spring also came out with it, so all that was left on my car was the hole.

 

I didn't even think to have a proper look, stupid I know.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, vRSRutty said:

 

 

It's a manual, and had the clutch replaced some time before I purchased it.

 

What I have heard of before on other forums and platforms using the gen 3. Especially with upgraded stronger pressure plates, is the extra force can cause crank walk and destroys the thrust washer. It's a pretty simple design and not that robust. 

 

Then the crank moves and destroys itself and castings and bearings. Usually there are bad noises with this as the sign and in one case I've seen the trust washer broken found in the sump.   

5 minutes ago, vRSRutty said:

 

Yeah, I think I know what you're in about, the filter almost 'slots' around it?

 

If I remember correctly, when I pulled the housing out the, the tensioner thingy with the spring also came out with it, so all that was left on my car was the hole.

 

I didn't even think to have a proper look, stupid I know.

 

 

 

 

This.

 

1 minute ago, TheClient said:

What I have heard of before on other forums and platforms using the gen 3. Especially with upgraded stronger pressure plates, is the extra force can cause crank walk and destroys the thrust washer. It's a pretty simple design and not that robust. 

 

Then the crank moves and destroys itself and castings and bearings. Usually there are bad noises with this as the sign and in one case I've seen the trust washer broken found in the sump.   

 

It doesn't make any weird noises etc and the clutch was replaced about 20,000 miles ago. 

 

I spoke to the mechanic and he said that removing the sump would be beneficial, so I presume that's what they'll do Thursday - if it hasn't already been done. 

Just now, TheClient said:

This.

 

Yeah that's it, but I don't remember it being that big.

 

I'll have to double check.

Just now, vRSRutty said:

 

It doesn't make any weird noises etc and the clutch was replaced about 20,000 miles ago. 

 

I spoke to the mechanic and he said that removing the sump would be beneficial, so I presume that's what they'll do Thursday - if it hasn't already been done. 

Yeah. I think that would be beneficial depending on what they've seen that makes them so sure it is terminal!! 

4 minutes ago, TheClient said:

Yeah. I think that would be beneficial depending on what they've seen that makes them so sure it is terminal!! 

 

Yeah, I'm sure they'll clarify once I'm there.

17 minutes ago, vRSRutty said:

 

It doesn't make any weird noises etc and the clutch was replaced about 20,000 miles ago. 

 

I spoke to the mechanic and he said that removing the sump would be beneficial, so I presume that's what they'll do Thursday - if it hasn't already been done. 

Yeah that's it, but I don't remember it being that big.

 

I'll have to double check.

There was an older version with just a stick and O rings.

 

But importantly both versions require an accompanying plastic filter screw on cover. Not interchangeable. 

 

But if it were not sealing at all you would probably have oil pressure light on all time. But if an o ring is just partially damaged? Worth a check. Also make sure it is correct length to and seems to fit in place by testing without screwing on cover.

 

See photos in this thread of different version.. 

 

 

 

https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/oil-pressure-light-after-switching-to-revised-oil-filter-housing-adapter.9253937/

 

Edited 24 November, 20232 yr by TheClient

2 minutes ago, TheClient said:

There was an older version with just a stick and O rings.

 

But importantly both versions require an accompanying plastic filter screw on cover. Not interchangeable. 

 

But if it were not sealing at all you would probably have oil pressure light on all time. But if an o ring is just partially damaged? Worth a check. Also make sure it is correct length to and seems to fit in place by testing without screwing on cover.

 

See photos in this thread of different version.. 

 

 

 

https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/oil-pressure-light-after-switching-to-revised-oil-filter-housing-adapter.9253937/

 

 

I have that newer one for sure, where would the O ring be? I replaced the one around the housing.

1 minute ago, vRSRutty said:

 

I have that newer one for sure, where would the O ring be? I replaced the one around the housing.

There are two at the bottom. Non spring end. Edit. It also needs to fit so that as the filter housing is screwed in it gets compressed and seals the two orings in the drain hole bottom of the oil filter bracket beneath the oil filter!!! 

Edited 24 November, 20232 yr by TheClient

Having done more oil changes on my VAG TDi's than I have had hot dinners I am very familiar with the stick and O rings but to my shame I had not appreciated its function as an anti-drain valve until now.

 

I gave up replacing the O rings some while back settling for a visual inspection due to the frequency of oil changes, now I know whats at stake I will be looking very carefully.

I dont think mine has the spring, you can feel when tightening and loosening when the O rings are forced into the bore, I think there is at least 10mm of engagement, a spring loaded one seems like a backwards step but perhaps there were other issues perhaps with the O rings becoming displaced, thats another reason I started leaving the old ones in place if they were undamaged, some of the new ones even on VAG filters from TPS were very resistant to enter the bore and required too much tightening torque, I was concerned they might get damaged or displaced.

 

Why are there two of different diameters, - belt and braces?

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

I dont think mine has the spring, you can feel when tightening and loosening when the O rings are forced into the bore, I think there is at least 10mm of engagement, a spring loaded one seems like a backwards step but perhaps there were other issues perhaps with the O rings becoming displaced, thats another reason I started leaving the old ones in place if they were undamaged, some of the new ones even on VAG filters from TPS were very resistant to enter the bore and required too much tightening torque, I was concerned they might get damaged or displaced.

 

Why are there two of different diameters, - belt and braces?

I don't know why there are two orings and therefore 2x bore diameter at bottom. As you say, I guess double seal!!! 

I suspect the valves main function is to bypass the oil filter if it is clogged and has a neat secondary fuction of retaining the oil in the inverted filter and allowing it to drain down as the filter is being removed.

 

On my next oil change I am going to unscrew the housing until I feel the O rings release then go for a cup of coffee, hopefully then for the first time in 3 decades the old filter will not drop oil everywhere.

 

I think I will owe a debt of gratitude to TheClient!

 

Editted, later spring loaded shaft is almost certainly for clogged filter by pass, I can't see how the solid one can acheive that unless there is an internal spring, as they are interchangeable (with new plastic housing) then there cannot be a seperate one built in to the earlier oil pumps.

Edited 24 November, 20232 yr by J.R.

15 minutes ago, TheClient said:

There are two at the bottom. Non spring end. Edit. It also needs to fit so that as the filter housing is screwed in it gets compressed and seals the two orings in the drain hole bottom of the oil filter bracket beneath the oil filter!!! 

 

Right, I don't recall there being any.

 

I'm going to double check properly once I have it back

13 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I suspect the valves main function is to bypass the oil filter if it is clogged and has a neat secondary fuction of retaining the oil in the inverted filter and allowing it to drain down as the filter is being removed.

 

On my next oil change I am going to unscrew the housing until I feel the O rings release then go for a cup of coffee, hopefully then for the first time in 3 decades the old filter will not drop oil everywhere.

 

I think I will owe a debt of gratitude to TheClient!

 

Editted, later spring loaded shaft is almost certainly for clogged filter by pass, I can't see how the solid one can acheive that unless there is an internal spring, as they are interchangeable (with new plastic housing) then there cannot be a seperate one built in to the earlier oil pumps.

Ha. Yes. The spring must be a bypass. But my car just came with the stick originally which can't do such a thing for sure as you say at original as supplied mfr. 

 

Edit. In the new version part there's 2 different springs as well!!! A lot of complication for what was a simple stick and oring drain plug!! 

 

I "upgraded" to the new part just because I read in several threads that it was improved, but there was never explanation of how, why!! 

Edited 24 November, 20232 yr by TheClient

19 hours ago, vRSRutty said:

will be devastated if I lose the car, haven't had it even 6 months.

 

3 hours ago, vRSRutty said:

Paying £9000 is 100% out of the question, if it comes to it, I'd either sell it on (obviously disclosing the issues) or have the engine remanufactured/reconditioned.

 

It makes me wonder if the previous owner was faced with a similar diagnosis and quote?

 

I have bought cheap many cars with problems that I have eventually resolved by determination and a lot of mental effort, in every case they had been sold on and on making their way through the trade to private owners and back again a few times before they ended up with me, the cheap buyer of expensive problems!

 

I have seen some misdiagnosis and scary quotes in my time all of which missed the actual fault caused by the servicing dealers incompetence but £9K for a missing O ring if that is the case here takes it to a new level, its 100% believable sadly and I really hope that it is the case for the OP.