Central exhaust very loose and leaking

[mikear82]

Hi all,

 

My 2016 Fabia 1.2tsi hatchback has developed the old 'boy racer' noises under acceleration and on jacking her up to check I've noticed the central exhaust area is very loose (see pic and video).  So rusted!  There is an effect on performance as well which I guess is understandable due to loss of pressure.

 

  Does anybody know if this is likely to just be the mounting that needs to be replaced or if these parts come as a group and have to be replaced completely?  Part numbers for this would be really helpful as well if anyone has access to that 😍.  I don't want to get a shock when I go to the garage with it, only recently replaced the timing belt (@ 69k mls) which cost £580 !

 

Love this wee car!

 

Thanks in advance all,

 

Mike

[Breezy_Pete]

"Dual sleeve clamp".

Measure the outside diameter of the pipes and buy one to suit. Genuine ones seem to rust away prematurely just as much as aftermarket, so no advantage in paying dealership premium prices. 

[J.R.]

Dont poke it too hard with the end of that putter! 😄

[mikear82]

1 hour ago, Breezy_Pete said:

"Dual sleeve clamp".

Measure the outside diameter of the pipes and buy one to suit. Genuine ones seem to rust away prematurely just as much as aftermarket, so no advantage in paying dealership premium prices. 

Ah perfect, thank you 🙂.  Seems very cheap for the aftermarket parts indeed, only about £5 + postage.  Genuine ones are at least 4x that.

[mikear82]

59 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Dont poke it too hard with the end of that putter! 😄

It's okay, it was just a wee 9 iron 😄.  Not driving it until I take to the mechanic, sounding like a really cheap boy racer at the minute!

[rum4mo]

I bought a new genuine VW Group NOS a few years ago for my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI, "exhaust centre joining piece VW 1KO 253 141 M  59.6mm relaxed or open diameter - length 95mm".

 

But, so far, that joining sleeve has not started to fail, I always plan to "keep an eye" on these centre joining sleeves at annual service time as they do fail after 8 > 9 years, replacing them soon after the clamps have rotted through is a lot easier than trying to remove still intact clamps.

 

I think that VW Group has changed the design of these clamps and that was why I managed to buy a NOS genuine VW Group part via ebay.

 

In the past I've bought after market versions cheaply and just "harvested" the clamps from them and left the original split sleeve on the car - I've still to find a use for maybe 4  redundant sleeve bits!

 

Edit:- the convenient thing bout some VW Group cars/engines, is that there is a body cross brace near this exhaust join, which supports one end of the loose exhaust, from memory the end that benefits most from needing supported when the clamps fail. I'm not sure that this is true on this age of Fabia/Polo/Ibiza with the 1.2TSI 16V engines - correction, from your pictures it does!

Edited 29 October, 2023 by rum4mo

[mikear82]

On 29/10/2023 at 13:22, rum4mo said:

I bought a new genuine VW Group NOS a few years ago for my wife's 2015 VW Polo 1.2TSI, "exhaust centre joining piece VW 1KO 253 141 M  59.6mm relaxed or open diameter - length 95mm".

 

But, so far, that joining sleeve has not started to fail, I always plan to "keep an eye" on these centre joining sleeves at annual service time as they do fail after 8 > 9 years, replacing them soon after the clamps have rotted through is a lot easier than trying to remove still intact clamps.

 

I think that VW Group has changed the design of these clamps and that was why I managed to buy a NOS genuine VW Group part via ebay.

 

In the past I've bought after market versions cheaply and just "harvested" the clamps from them and left the original split sleeve on the car - I've still to find a use for maybe 4  redundant sleeve bits!

 

Edit:- the convenient thing bout some VW Group cars/engines, is that there is a body cross brace near this exhaust join, which supports one end of the loose exhaust, from memory the end that benefits most from needing supported when the clamps fail. I'm not sure that this is true on this age of Fabia/Polo/Ibiza with the 1.2TSI 16V engines - correction, from your pictures it does!

 

Ah, thanks very much rum4mo 🙂.  Does this look like the part below?  Confused by the diameter a bit as they say 55/60 and you've mentioned 59.6mm.  I think they are officially 56mm inner diameter, so is the 59.6mm something to do with the 'relaxed or open' part?  I've been considering something like aluminium tape and some steel jubilee clips or something as a temporary repair before I take it in but perhaps just giving the proper sleeve clamp a go myself isn't a big job 🤷‍♂️.

 

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/1k0253141m-exhaust-union-dual-germany-4315.html

 

Getting a mechanic is nuts right now...soonest out of three reputable ones I know was the 13th November.  The other two were 17th November and 2nd December!!!

 

Cheers

 

 

[rum4mo]

Sorry for missing your reply!

 

Yes it does look like being the same thing.

The “relaxed” diameter measurement would be what I measured it to be, so no worries there.

[J.R.]

On 29/10/2023 at 14:22, rum4mo said:

replacing them soon after the clamps have rotted through is a lot easier than trying to remove still intact clamps.

 

On 29/10/2023 at 14:22, rum4mo said:

"harvested" the clamps from them and left the original split sleeve on the car

 

Exactly what I did!

 

I think I also may have bought a new old stock VAG one, the clamps look like they will last a lot longer than the original but the original inner stainless sleeve will last for ever IMO.

 

Its a great design, far better than overlapping exhaust sections that fuse together with corrosion.

[mikear82]

Just coming back here to say thanks to everyone for their help. Job done and running like a dream again. Incredibly easy to fit the sleeve clamp, most difficult part was getting the car up on an axle stand. Ended up only needing to do that on one side as the job was doable with one hand.

 

Incidentally the part I purchased did not have easily removable clamps, they were designed to stay in place I think. The one below specifically from onlinecarparts (autodoc).

 

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/fa1-2968115.html

 

I may be at risk of a slagging, but was this a suitable place for the axle stand (wishbone I think?). Struggled to get the car lifted up very high with the trolley jack I borrowed so the axle stand is on its bottom setting.

 

Many thanks

 

Mike

[Breezy_Pete]

No problem with axle stand there.

Did you use any exhaust paste? Reckon it may leak if not. You'll soon see from black soot stains.

The two bits don't seem quite aligned either?

Edited 10 November, 2023 by Breezy_Pete

[mikear82]

38 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

No problem with axle stand there.

Did you use any exhaust paste? Reckon it may leak if not. You'll soon see from black soot stains.

The two bits don't seem quite aligned either?

Thanks, good to know re the axle stand

 

When you say misaligned, do you mean each end of the actual exhaust or the clamps? The clamps do look slightly in different places in that picture to be fair.

 

No I didn't use paste... seemed to be mixed advice about whether it was actually needed. Took the car out for a good run and all seems ok, but I'll check periodically for soot stains.

[Breezy_Pete]

The actual exhaust pipes. By eye, they don't look in line, and if I hold a ruler up to the screen there's a fair angle. Is there a (designed) kink in the end of the right-hand/rearmost section? 

Looks even worse on your photos pre-fix TBH, so possibly a photographic artefact.

[Ootohere]

Skoda managed to source some pretty crap parts but this one discussed here must be the worst of them, but easy to find. 

[mikear82]

31 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

The actual exhaust pipes. By eye, they don't look in line, and if I hold a ruler up to the screen there's a fair angle. Is there a (designed) kink in the end of the right-hand/rearmost section? 

Looks even worse on your photos pre-fix TBH, so possibly a photographic artefact.

No kink I could I see, but I get what you mean. It's possible the RHS pipe went in at a slight angle, however I was very careful that the sleeve was perfectly centred i.e same amount of pipe within it on each side. There was a 30mm gap between the main exhaust components so that left 32.5mm each side (95mm sleeve) of pipe actually in sleeve. If I get the chance I'll double check it's as straight as it should be.

[mikear82]

18 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Skoda managed to source some pretty crap parts but this one discussed here must be the worst of them, but easy to find. 

Amazingly your part looks in much better nick than mine 😳, see attached. Hardly anything left of the clamps, sleeve was ok though.

[Breezy_Pete]

Last one I took off was consistent, sleeve just as bad as the clamps!

Can't remember if it was a genuine one unfortunately:

 

[J.R.]

Its drooping hence misaligned, the 30mm will have been measured after the old clamp was removed and both parts hanging somewhat.

 

However if it isn't leaking and there is no vibration then its probably OK, myself I would have wanted more than 32mm engagement on that diameter of pipe so would try to close the gap up without straining anything, I think I may have replaced my clamp with a longer one.

 

Well spotted Pete 👍

[J.R.]

Mine was as rotted as that but had an inner stainless liner which I re-used, or at least thats what either my memory or imagination is telling me!

[Breezy_Pete]

The workshop manual for the mk1 suggests pulling the rear section forward until its hanger has a 10mm forward displacement or some such. That results in the pipes pretty much meeting in the middle of the clamp, I think.

[J.R.]

Having enlarged the photo I can see at about 1cm to the right that was within the old clamp, possibly some to the left but that may be a shadow, of course the new clamp might be shorter than the old one.

[J.R.]

3 minutes ago, Breezy_Pete said:

The workshop manual for the mk1 suggests pulling the rear section forward until its hanger has a 10mm forward displacement or some such. That results in the pipes pretty much meeting in the middle of the clamp, I think.

 

Yes the mention of doing it one handed made me think the pipes could not be correctly aligned, I recall needing at least 4 hands to pull the sections together, hold the sleeve in position and tighten the clamps, I'm sure my knees or one foot was called into action.

[Breezy_Pete]

Less forward displacement than I remembered:

"Push the middle and rear silencer forward until the dimension -a- = 3 ... 7 mm is obtained on the retaining strap/middle silencer."

I suppose it's so that when the exhaust heats up, expansion means the hanger ends up vertical/neutral.

[mikear82]

All great points, thanks. Weather looking ok over the weekend so I'll get a chance to make some proper adjustments. Hadn't considered that it would be possible to move the exhaust parts closer to together...actually annoyed with myself now! The front section seemed to have a bit of flex, but I wasn't sure how much play the hanger at the front was capable of.

 

Both old and new sleeves were the same length, 95mm.

[Breezy_Pete]

If it doesn't leak, leave well alone.