Garage is saying they can't do wheel alignment because track rod end is seized. Trying to charge £350+ to fix. Advice needed please.

[RobSuf]

Hey - as title states, took my car in for a 4 wheel alignment, and they are saying they can't do it because the track rod ends are seized.

 

They are trying to charge £80 for parts and 4 hours of labour to fix. I am going to do the work myself but had some queries:

 

1) Can I just replace the track rod end or is it worth doing the whole track rod?

2) They are saying they have already aligned the rear, so if I was to fix the track rods ends myself would I need to get the rears checked again? Not sure if they need to match up or something? (probably stupid question but I'd rather check)

3) Been watching some videos on how to replace the whole rod, does anyone know the socket size to undo the inner rod? been looking at this sort of thing https://www.diy.com/departments/track-rod-end-remover-installer-socket-35-45mm-neilsen-ct3182-/5055282031827_BQ.prd

 

Thanks!! 

[RobSuf]

Update, just heard back from the garage and they are charging for the full price of the alignment even though they couldn't do the front? Is that normal?

[J.R.]

Normal for an outfit that think they have already got a punter believing that it takes 4 hours to replace 2 track rod ends.

[Paws4Thot]

@RobSuf

 

1. I can't be certain either way; track rod ends can sometimes be changed without changing the whole rod but it depends on whether the seized fastener is on the ball joint or the rod.
2. Best practice would be to recheck the rear yes.
3. You need open ended spanners, not sockets, to remove track rods. They're normally sold in sets of usual sizes which will include the one you need.
4. I'm going to agree with @J.R. here; Change your garage, and from what you've said look for a local place with a Hunter (trade name) rig and a reputation for being able to use it.

[krisp1]

Seized track rod ends usually are not allowing the track rod too move in them. You may need heat to release the track rod end.  I would only change the track rod ends

In the past tyre fitters use heat to release the track rod end for me.

This takes about 10minutes a side. When I experienced this it was done as part of the tracking cost.

I would avoid the place that is feeding you this story. They clearly think you have no idea of what is involved.

The main reason I would recheck the rear alignment is the lack of competence  demonstrated by the garage.  

Often places with 4 wheel alignment charge you to check the settings and then more to adjust them to the required values.

Good luck.

[J.R.]

Cordless angle grinders have mostly taken the place of heat in this instance, its rare for garages to keep paying the rental of oxy-acetylene cylinders since MIG welding became the norme, when I left the UK I had 2 full oxy-acetylene cylinders to give away, I could not find a single garage to take them!

 

They all said look for an old school panel beater (shrinking).

[krisp1]

JR is mixing bodywork with mechanical work. An angle grinder is a destructive tool and would wreck the tie rod as well.

I use heat regularly to free seized parts. I cannot just go and buy a new part for a sixty or seventy year old bus so heat is very important in releasing parts.

I use a small gas torch and it is much easier to use especially in confined spaces.

[J.R.]

Not confusing them at all, I do both and use both heat and angle grinders dependant on the situation.

 

Compared to oxy-acetylene a blowlamp is very unsatisfactory, nowhere enough heat for anything with any mass and what heat is introduced soaks away damaging adjacent components, for a track rod end you have its own gaiter the lower swivel and the steering rack gaiter, with oxy-acetylene it can be so quick and concentrated that you can free the stuck locknut without damaging the joint if you know what you are doing.

 

When cutting with an angle grinder you take into account the inner male thread that you want to save, you cut just short and finish with a chisel, the heat generated from it helps a lot. I've removed scores of seized track rod ends and in recent years always with the angle grinder except where it was the locknut seized and I was hoping to save the joint.

[krisp1]

The op would probably like to save the joint and he might be able to find a tire fitting place that can use heat to free it rather than struggling himself.

I do not use a blowtorch. The one I use is a concentrated heat source the same as oxy acetylene. 

[StevesTruck]

There's no way on earth it takes 4 hours to do a pair of rod ends. I'm not a mechanic. I use a the cheapest blowtorch toolstation sell and a couple of adjustable spanners I got from a carboot sale 20 years ago, and I can free one in 15 minutes. Take it somewhere else, they're trying to blag you. If you want some money out of you just tell them nice try buttercup, but you can't B*****it a B******iter. 😅

Edited 12 December, 2023 by StevesTruck

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, krisp1 said:

The one I use is a concentrated heat source the same as oxy acetylene. 

 

I'm sure its better than a standard plumbers blowlamp and I think I know the one you are speaking of, they use a hotter burning gas and have a more concentrated flame but you are deluding yourself if you think it is the same as oxy-acetylene and its clear that you have never used it.

 

I'm not saying that you should not be doing what works for you, I was explaining what most garages do nowadays, they will only use flame heat when they have no other option and are highly unlikely to have oxy-acetylene cylinders, the fire risk is too great, even with an angle grinder there is the combustion risk from the sparks.

 

Someday soon I am going to fork out on an induction heater with the coil attachments, not sure if they do ones that can wrap around a tie rod.

[T2000]

To be honest it will be the nut on the threaded bar of the inner rod on the balljoint end that will be seized as above and various ways of removing it, my preference would be remove track rod end nut and knock it out of hub and then undo inner rod, usually with mole grips or the like as the 'knuckle' has 2 flats on it or a hex shape, take off the whole rod with balljoint attached and assemble new rod and balljoint to the same length and refit, no special tools required.

 

As you have a MK2 which is now a few years old it makes sense to do the whole lot as they may be some play on the inner anyway and for £37 odd for both TRE's and inner rods it isnt a bank breaker.

 

[J.R.]

Having done that on a MK1 (worn inner swivel) whilst it is doable there is very little access and you need a really strong pull on a long spanner to release it which is nigh on impossible from under a jacked up car, from under a vehicle lift yes.

 

If I have to do another I will buy the special 1/2" drive tool that allows you to undo it from under the wheelarch with a long extension.

 

To further explain why for me heating seized nuts & bolts with a blowlamp is very sub optimal, the heat output is too low, in most cases especially on a trackrod end the male heat can soak away from the joint as quick as you can apply it, this means that even if you get the thing to say 300°c the inner threaded shaft will be at pretty much the same temperature, there will be no differential expansion between the male and female thread, with the right tip in an oxy-acetylene torch you can get the nut or the outer joint up to cherry red (900°c) very quickly and the female threaded part will expand significantly around the male part, a large temperature differential.