3 minutes ago, Summerhillred said:

Dat, nicknorman, of course it's possible. I've done it and on more than one occasion.

 

Releasing the epb before you start the job means you can push the piston back no problem.

 

Don't listen to what you hear. Unless these people have actually tried it for themselves then they don't know what they're talking about. And I mean that with all due respect.

So just to be clear, you released the EPB in the normal way, you removed the calliper, took out old pads that were worn near the limit, pushed the piston in and installed new pads and got the calliper back on, on a Skoda Superb?

 

I could see this working if the old pads were not much worn because when the EPB unlocks it obviously goes back a bit further than it needs to to release the brakes. But not so far as to make up the difference between well worn pads and new ones.

 

Put it another way, if you don’t need to electrically retract the EPB when changing the pads, why did the people at Škoda (well, VW of course) go to all the trouble to write the software to create the electronic retraction function? It doesn’t seem to make sense. With all due respect, I remain unconvinced!

Yes. Did it exactly the same way on 2 Skodas and 2 Mondeos and never had a problem. As I said, until I encounter a problem then I'll carry on doing it that way. Choose to believe me or not, but unless you've tried it yourself, don't consider it to be impossible due to hearsay.

 

What exactly do you think the EPB does when it's engaged and disengaged? It obviously winds the piston back and forth.

 

Winding them back by a diagnostic tool is obviously done for ease and quickness of time.

44 minutes ago, Summerhillred said:

 

What exactly do you think the EPB does when it's engaged and disengaged? It obviously winds the piston back and forth.

 

I exactly think that when the EPB is engaged, the motor is powered until the current reaches a certain value (indicative of the applied pressure). When the EPB is released it winds back a specified amount, just enough to ensure that it is not pressing the pads to the disk, but not much further since it moves quite slowly (the pitch on the worm drive is very fine) and it needs to be able to be re-applied fairly quickly. So far so good.

 

But over time as the pads wear, very gradually the distance it motors to apply the EPB is very, very slightly more than the distance it travels back to release it. The operating positions of both “on” and “off” move closer to the disc.

 

So when it comes time to replace thin pads with fat new ones, just releasing the EPB doesn’t move it back far enough, you need to tell the computer to wind it right back.

 

That is wot I exactly thinks

 

16 hours ago, Summerhillred said:

[...] Unless these people have actually tried it for themselves then they don't know what they're talking about. And I mean that with all due respect.

It's funny statement, when yourself, you don't trust someone like @ApertureS who works everyday on VAG cars AFAIK.

I've never changed my rear pads on my Mk3, but I should need to do it soon.

I think I'll follow @ApertureS recommendations to use VCDS rather than listen to someone who only did it twice on a Skoda, with all due respect.

Edited 13 January, 20242 yr by Bap33

15 hours ago, Summerhillred said:

Yes. Did it exactly the same way on 2 Skodas and 2 Mondeos and never had a problem. As I said, until I encounter a problem then I'll carry on doing it that way. Choose to believe me or not, but unless you've tried it yourself, don't consider it to be impossible due to hearsay.

 

What exactly do you think the EPB does when it's engaged and disengaged? It obviously winds the piston back and forth.

 

Winding them back by a diagnostic tool is obviously done for ease and quickness of time.

So ill break it down for you a bit better,

 

The motor doesnt wind any piston back and forth to start with. The motor winds a ball screw inside that has a plate attached to it. This allows for the motor to push the plate out which pushes the piston out, and when released, only retracts the internal plate allowing the piston to retract on its own like it would in any other braking situation. 

 

Next on to the diagnostic side of it, With some good maths by engineers a lot smarter than yourself and I, they have worked out that as a motor begins to increase in torque, the current draw goes up also, and using this principle they have worked out the exact torque to current draw curve of these caliper motors. 

Why is this relevant? Well you dont want premature wear of the hand brake and caliper components by using too much torque and you dont want too little torque where the pad isnt being pushed hard enough against the disc. When you reengage the motor with a diagnostic tool it actually puts the handbrake on and off about 3 times, this monitors the current draw and sets the exact point it wants the motor to stop to excessive prevent wear on the parts. 

 

Now as much as you can get away with using a socket and winding it back yourself and reapplying it yourself, the motor is still using its old stop points and will over torque the motor or under torque it. 

 

 

 

TLDR; its not all some conspiracy to get you to spend more money for no reason and actually serves a purpose. Its also related to a safety component and it grinds my gears when people try and skip steps/cheap out on them.  

ApertureS, I appreciate the explanation but my point is that you don't necessarily have to have a diagnostic tool to do the job. It can still be done the manual way if someone so wished or couldn't afford a diagnostic tool

On 12/01/2024 at 18:18, nicknorman said:

I can’t see how this could work. The EPB and the piston are kind of separate entities. Yes you can push the piston in but it will be blocked by the EPB which is on a worm drive. I don’t see any way of retracting the EPB manually.
I used VCDS - it is a simple process, and when you have finished and put the EPB back to normal more, it does a bit of chuntering whilst it works out the bite point of the brake.

 

I have heard of people getting around using a diagnostic tool by disconnecting the EPB cable and applying 12v directly to the motor, but this seems so much more difficult than just using a diagnostic tool, with lots of scope for causing damage.

 

Once the EPB is retracted, you just push the piston back in.

That's good advice thanks, think a lot on here have been getting confused with the EPB and the piston, I have the superb MK3 L&K 2018  and i was unsure if the piston on the rear brakes were to be pushed or screwed in because looking at the piston face with the two cut out bits i was thinking screwed in, but you have made it clear to be pushed in.   Thanks for the advice.