New purchase likes drinking oil…………. Cthe vrs

[Whit3Knight]

Hi Everyone,

 

Purchased a Skoda Fabia VRs 2013 plate, I didn’t do this blind and new there may be issues so went for a fsh example and insisted on a dsg oil change (proof supplied) to hopefully lessen the risk…….

 

i must point out the dealer (not Skoda) is been great about it all !!! 
 

So the car uses roughly a litre of oil every 350 miles and I’ve had it 3-4 months now, this is down on Skoda guidance of 600 ish miles per 500ml of oil. The car has now 55k and as mentioned fsh, it’s also booked into dealers garage for 5w-40 vw spec oil and filter change and compression check (at my request) also he is going to check turbo for oil seals etc. I’ve read that switching from 5w-30 to 5w-40 can help with its consumption,  but upon contacting Skoda they agreed the consumption is above spec, and said for £250 they could do an oil consumption check, for £1500 replace oil breather, inlet pipes and x4 oil squirters, but would not guarantee it would address the issue, or 5-6k for an engine. I must point out the car doesn’t have hard life and very rarely gets pushed (not even had it in sport) as I’m 50 years wiser now….. 
 

As the car drives and performs as it should my questions are…… 

 

Do I just accept it drinks oil and top up when needed little and often, it’s always going to have fresh oil (obviously I’ll service it every 5-8k regardless)

 

what’s the options to look at first cheapest to dearest?

 

What are the official fixes (presume the ones Skoda recommended above)

 

all advice welcome and does this group have a designated expert on this engine?

[sepulchrave]

Just get a cylinder leak down compression test done, no need to throw thousands at it just at yet.

 

Low mileage cars often have poor piston ring sealing due to lack of use.

[Ootohere]

No idea why the DQ200 Oil change was required by you.  Has your car had Service Campaign '34H5' done since 2017, software update for the DQ200 from 2013-2015.

 

The Oil consumption is not in spec.

The 0.5 litres in 1,000 km / 621 miles is a figure they give as may be used.  *For every VW engine for decades, 44 kw up, 3,4,5,6,8,12 cylinder petrol or diesel.*

 

0.3 litres in 1,000 km / 621 miles was enough to get engines replace when in warranty. 

 

The Oil Breather should not have required changing on a CTHE as that was a TPI issue with CAVE cars.

 

Dropping the oil and using 5w 40 FS (VW502 00)  and get Super Unleaded in (E5)  Tesco momentum and once up to heat take it for a good thrash as long as the spark plugs are ok will do no harm.

 

As to Oil Squirters, see the pinned thread at the top of this forum.

Waste of time as your engine should not need the upgrade but there are members that did have them done on a CTHE.  Waste of time and money if you are paying and not a Warranty Provider. 

 

Search.  Briskoda fabia mk2 twincharger oil squirters.    Not on Porn Hub though.

 

..............

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/358101-vrs-mk-ii-14-litre-twincharger-oil-consumption-issue

Page 6 and others might help you decide, and near the end of posts.

@see page 18.

 

Some of the Oil Consumption tests were rubbish as some idiot though a litre of engine oil weighed 1,000 grams.

This member got a new engine.  Once Skoda UK had it pointed out they were useless.

Edited 17 February by Rooted

[Whit3Knight]

3 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Just get a cylinder leak down compression test done, no need to throw thousands at it just at yet.

 

Low mileage cars often have poor piston ring sealing due to lack of use.

Thanks for the reply and offering advice on keeping my wallet in my pocket……… I don’t intend to spend £1000’s just hope for a better consumption and ultimately it not blow up, 55k would that be considered low mileage ? Age wise yes, 

[sepulchrave]

25 minutes ago, Whit3Knight said:

Thanks for the reply and offering advice on keeping my wallet in my pocket……… I don’t intend to spend £1000’s just hope for a better consumption and ultimately it not blow up, 55k would that be considered low mileage ? Age wise yes, 

 

5k a year is very low mileage, it's been used as a shopping trolley, get the compression test done.

[Whit3Knight]

3 hours ago, Rooted said:

No idea why the DQ200 Oil change was required by you.  Has your car had Service Campaign '34H5' done since 2017, software update for the DQ200 from 2013-2015.

 

The Oil consumption is not in spec.

The 0.5 litres in 1,000 km / 621 miles is a figure they give as may be used.  *For every VW engine for decades, 44 kw up, 3,4,5,6,8,12 cylinder petrol or diesel.*

 

0.3 litres in 1,000 km / 621 miles was enough to get engines replace when in warranty. 

 

The Oil Breather should not have required changing on a CTHE as that was a TPI issue with CAVE cars.

 

Dropping the oil and using 5w 40 FS (VW502 00)  and get Super Unleaded in (E5)  Tesco momentum and once up to heat take it for a good thrash as long as the spark plugs are ok will do no harm.

 

As to Oil Squirters, see the pinned thread at the top of this forum.

Waste of time as your engine should not need the upgrade but there are members that did have them done on a CTHE.  Waste of time and money if you are paying and not a Warranty Provider. 

 

Search.  Briskoda fabia mk2 twincharger oil squirters.    Not on Porn Hub though.

 

..............

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/358101-vrs-mk-ii-14-litre-twincharger-oil-consumption-issue

Page 6 and others might help you decide, and near the end of posts.

@see page 18.

 

Some of the Oil Consumption tests were rubbish as some idiot though a litre of engine oil weighed 1,000 grams.

This member got a new engine.  Once Skoda UK had it pointed out they were useless.

 

[Whit3Knight]

Hi and thanks for the information and taking the time out to reply!

 

The dsg oil change was requested by me as a safe guard (I know these are meant to be sealed for life) but that never sits well with me.

 

The car since my ownership has always been ran on super unleaded from Tesco (I hate the price difference) but believe the positives outweigh the costs involved.

 

As you and the other guy that replied have said I’m going to return to the garage have the oil changed 5w-40 and oil filter and have the compression tests done (don’t suppose you have the benchmark compression ratios ?) and also supply a full set off spark plugs (NGKsizfr6b8eg) as believe these to be the best option? 
 

I don’t know if the gearbox has had the update you mention would that have an effect on oil consumption? I presume it’s a contact Skoda dealers to check ?

 

also I get an occasion puff of blue smoke when in lower gears and going uphill and I mean very occasional nothing on start up ? Car is always allowed to warm up and given 30 seconds to a minute before been turned off much thanks for your reply and any further advice is most welcome “Thanks”

[Ootohere]

@Whit3Knight re your DQ200 DSG, was it both oils that were changed as in the MCU and the gearbox? 

 

No the update will not affect fuel consumption. It was a preventative measure to stop the gearbox cracking, heat / pressure. 

Skoda can tell you if it was done.

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-campaigns

It might not appear there even if not done.

 

I would not use those NGK, i would get the Denso spark plugs.   Pinned thread up top.

 

What price difference from Tesco Momentum 99, the difference is less than £2.50 a tank from their 95 unleaded or other supermarket unleaded and can be cheaper than the E10 95 unleaded at ESSO, BP, Texaco etc etc.

 

Booting it and blowing out smoke is perfectly fine, the car just running about and running rich needs a clean out.

The white / grey exhaust tips can be showing an issue and running lean.

 

Soot and oil on the tail pipe is not good.

 

I gave my son a newly serviced vRS on loan and it was not an oil user and within a few hundred miles it was 1.3 litre low.

He was doing short cold start runs, booting it like crazy.

 

I got it back, topped it up and it never used any oil.  But then i always made sure before stopping it got some welly before parking up.

And no sitting ticking over for even 30 seconds.   That is just a waste of time and not a wastegate or turbo saver. 

Unless you are actually tracking the car in scorchio weather.

 

Then get the bonnet open. 

[thomasaspin]

Hi in regards to the spark plugs I did like how the denso spark plugs behaved in my engine , but longevity wise the NGK BKR7EI last longer the spark plug you listed I would not run. As for using oil that’s a lot of oil consumption are you sure it’s a CTHE engine ?  Any smoke while driving ? Maybe it’s a turbo oil seal or something as apposed to a oil drinker 

[Ootohere]

Any of the spark plugs after the ones Skoda / VW stopped using as OEM last as long as one particular plug is not burning out.

 

The CAVE mk2 vRS were no longer built after the summer break 2012, so unless a 2013 plate vRS was built before then it has a CTHE engine unless someone put an older engine in it.

 

@thomasaspinYou were running tuned CAVE engines were you not after the first oil user, then went for a 2.0TSI install?

Did you run the NGK for long in a standard engine management / mapped 1.4 TSI Twincharger? 

 

If all 4 plugs stay looking good after 10,000 miles then great.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/452635-bkr7eix-in-a-twincharger

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/237997-bkr7eix-or-bkr8eix

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/371770-spark-plugs-for-mk2-fabia-vrs

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/510629-intermittent-misfire-fabia-vrs-mk2

 

 

Edited 18 February by Rooted

[Whit3Knight]

1 hour ago, thomasaspin said:

Hi in regards to the spark plugs I did like how the denso spark plugs behaved in my engine , but longevity wise the NGK BKR7EI last longer the spark plug you listed I would not run. As for using oil that’s a lot of oil consumption are you sure it’s a CTHE engine ?  Any smoke while driving ? Maybe it’s a turbo oil seal or something as apposed to a oil drinker 

Yes an occasional blue ish when off load then back on load say coming down a normal road then turning left onto an incline, or when foot put down (happens very rarely putting foot down) how would I know if it was seals can it be visually checked ? 
 

100% it’s a cthe I spent a lot of time searching for what on paper was a good one…… Hopefully it’s something relatively simple like a turbo seal, but from my research the turbo kicks in after the supercharger, as in later up the rev range so would it kick out blue smoke in the scenario I gave above ? I mention that because it seems to always do that there…….

 

As for spark plugs I’m getting a little confused as what’s best now ngk, denso etc 🙃 Thanks for the reply much appreciated 🤝

Edited 18 February by Whit3Knight

[Ootohere]

Get what ever spark plugs are right for the car.  The difference with the Denso i recommend is their reach.

IME they have saved many an engine.   But there are members that say they burnt one out.  But then lots of Snide Spark plugs are out there for sale.

http://opieoils.co.uk

 

Fit

Correct plugs with the correct gap and that isa whole other can of worms.

Check the preset gap, know what the gap should be, do not knock them when fitting. 

Fit the pipes / seals again properly, do not tear them, remember connections are brittle, and remember that over the past 11 years you have no idea what has been done. Breather mods, Oil Spray Jet upgrades, replacement engine, rebuilt engine, remapped or not. 

 

 

Actually the Turbo and the Supercharger work together for a while after just the supercharger, and supercharger only above 3,500 rpm.

 

 

Edited 18 February by Rooted

[Whit3Knight]

52 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Get what ever spark plugs are right for the car.  The difference with the Denso i recommend is their reach.

IME they have saved many an engine.   But there are members that say they burnt one out.  But then lots of Snide Spark plugs are out there for sale.

http://opieoils.co.uk

 

Fit

Correct plugs with the correct gap and that isa whole other can of worms.

Check the preset gap, know what the gap should be, do not knock them when fitting. 

Fit the pipes / seals again properly, do not tear them, remember connections are brittle, and remember that over the past 11 years you have no idea what has been done. Breather mods, Oil Spray Jet upgrades, replacement engine, rebuilt engine, remapped or not. 

 

 

Actually the Turbo and the Supercharger work together for a while after just the supercharger, and supercharger only above 3,500 rpm.

 

 

 

[Whit3Knight]

I’ll go for the denso ones you recommend and I’ll purchase through Ophir as don’t want risk of snide! Didn’t realise regarding sc and turbo everyday a school day. Thanks for all info I’ll report back when I get a date to take car in, once again thanks for input and taking time to reply very much appreciated 👏🏻🤝

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, Whit3Knight said:

Yes an occasional blue ish when off load then back on load say coming down a normal road then turning left onto an incline, or when foot put down (happens very rarely putting foot down) how would I know if it was seals can it be visually checked ? 
 

100% it’s a cthe I spent a lot of time searching for what on paper was a good one…… Hopefully it’s something relatively simple like a turbo seal, but from my research the turbo kicks in after the supercharger, as in later up the rev range so would it kick out blue smoke in the scenario I gave above ? I mention that because it seems to always do that there…….

 

As for spark plugs I’m getting a little confused as what’s best now ngk, denso etc 🙃 Thanks for the reply much appreciated 🤝

 

I wouldn't worry too much about spark plugs right now, they have no bearing on the oil consumption issue we're discussing.

Some people will post what they know rather than what you want to know whether it helps or not.

Get the test done then post back with results, my sense is that you have bore glaze.

[Ootohere]

@sepulchrave The issue was Bore Wash, has been for the last 14 years in the Fabias, and 15 in Ibiza & then the whole bag of crap that started when they went 160 ps then to 180ps.

There is nothing new about this stuff, or duff advice from Technicians and Motor Mechanics that can not see the actual wood for the trees. 

 

Gummed up rings, broken rings, burnt valves etc.  & long story short, a guff map from the factory.  Long Life Oil, crap sparkplugs and an engine that can run fine and not use oil if treated right. 

High oil users can be turned around. 

 

 

 Do you mean the compression test, and not the Skoda Official Oil Consumption test?

New oil and filter, drop the oil and weigh it, then refill and the car gets the oil filler and dipstick sealed, the owners drives the car takes it back, they drop the oil and weigh it.

Mess that up, accuse the owner of having tampered with the oil if there is a warranty, get the weights / quantity wrong etc. 

 

 

The plugs are not an immediate issue but the OP has talked to someone at Skoda or a Dealers and they have mentioned Oil Breathers, Oil Pray jets / squirters, 

Official OIl Consumption tests and he has mentioned servicing.

 

So to keep it simple, the car running right helps, the 5w 40 FS can help and the Super Unleaded can and then no short cold start runs, and do not over fill the oil.

 

Dead cheap see how it goes.     If they do not want spark plugs dead simple, do not get them. 

Edited 18 February by Rooted

[sepulchrave]

3 hours ago, Rooted said:

@sepulchrave Do you mean the compression test, and not the Skoda Official Oil Consumption test?

 

Yes of course, I'm interested in the cause not the effect. I guarantee at least one cylinder will be low.

[Kobayashi]

Does the CTHE have the CAVD oil jets that were remedied on the CAVE oil burners as the spray pattern was excessive? The main fix as discussed many times was the oil jets off a CAVD VW Scirocco. Breather pipe only didn't work. 

[thomasaspin]

4 hours ago, Kobayashi said:

Does the CTHE have the CAVD oil jets that were remedied on the CAVE oil burners as the spray pattern was excessive? The main fix as discussed many times was the oil jets off a CAVD VW Scirocco. Breather pipe only didn't work. 

In fairness though an oil jet should have no bearing on oil consumption if the oil control rings and compression rings are doing there job correctly and the bores have the correct cross hatching on them 

[Kobayashi]

6 hours ago, thomasaspin said:

In fairness though an oil jet should have no bearing on oil consumption if the oil control rings and compression rings are doing there job correctly and the bores have the correct cross hatching on them 

Mine was a heavy burner.. The Skoda map after the fixes when I Dyno the car was downtuned at 171bhp. That was put up to 200bhp with stage 1 map and intake change once it was sorted, it's been good ever since on the oil

[Ootohere]

'Fairness' had nothing to do with anything.   @thomasaspin Your engine was an oil user.

 

What was crazy was that the CAVE was discontinued and the revised CTHE came in and still there were brand new oil users and they got the Breather Mod and Oil Spray Jet upgrades.

For some it worked and some still ended up getting a replacement engine in a CTHE. 

 

.................

This was a New CTHE that had this work done. 

Edited 19 February by Rooted

[thomasaspin]

54 minutes ago, Rooted said:

'Fairness' had nothing to do with anything.   @thomasaspin Your engine was an oil user.

 

What was crazy was that the CAVE was discontinued and the revised CTHE came in and still there were brand new oil users and they got the Breather Mod and Oil Spray Jet upgrades.

For some it worked and some still ended up getting a replacement engine in a CTHE. 

 

.................

This was a New CTHE that had this work done. 

No argument from me here , just asking how an engine can burn oil if oil is not getting passed the compression rings & oil control ring ? 

[thomasaspin]

56 minutes ago, Rooted said:

'Fairness' had nothing to do with anything.   @thomasaspin Your engine was an oil user.

 

What was crazy was that the CAVE was discontinued and the revised CTHE came in and still there were brand new oil users and they got the Breather Mod and Oil Spray Jet upgrades.

For some it worked and some still ended up getting a replacement engine in a CTHE. 

 

.................

This was a New CTHE that had this work done. 

We all know it’s the Kolbenschimt uprated pistons and rings that sorted out the oil consumption issues that the cthe engine comes with as standard 

[sepulchrave]

Just now, thomasaspin said:

No argument from me here , just asking how an engine can burn oil if oil is not getting passed the compression rings & oil control ring ? 

 

The only mechanism other than piston blowby is valve guides which means failing stem seals, even turbo seals generally fill up the intercooler first.

[Ootohere]

We know which cylinder fails in every case.  We know about the inlet manifold and the one fouling and cooked spark plug.

Actually the over 20% failure rate with CAVE and then the reduced failures with the CTHE after the first ones happened after the change in engine management.

 

So as much as we here from the engineer what the cause is, there are those that can run a Twincharger and use loads of oil and then it can stop using oil with a few simple and inexpensive actions.

A remap can help quite a bit.    As for valve guides, valve stems and turbo seals, do people think that engines have not been stripped and checked by actual engineers.

What did VW Group come up with,  3 different engine managements, 2 different breather updates, and the change of oil spray jets.