TSI engines

[Jonathon1]

Hi,

Having sold my Yeti I am looking to replace it and like the look of the Karoque 

Here is where it gets complicated for me.

What is then difference between the 1litre TSI and 1.5 TSI engine. Apart from the obvious.

I know the 1 litre has a 3 cylinder turbocharged unit with a wet cambelt. Does the 1.5 have the same system or is it a 4 cylinder with conventional cambelt?

Thanks for reading. 
 

 

 

 

[xman]

Neither has a wet cambelt, don't know why you imagine VAG ever use a wet cambelt.

 

They are both EA211 series engines and have fully dry lifetime (15yr/180,000 mile) cambelts.

 

A few people report low speed drivability issues with the 1.5tsi, something that plagued many early 1.5tsi engines but seems to occasionally pop up with the latest gen 2 engines

 

There was a batch of 1.0tsi engines years ago that had self loosening cam phasers that convertered the cambelts to wet ones, unintentionally.

 

Driving both is the only way to judge what you prefer. I was very surprised how good the 1.0tsi was in a Kamiq I hired abroad probably the 110/115bhp version.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you find the 1.5tsi a bit dull by the accounts I've read. Many consider it a step back from the previous gold standard 1.4tsi it replaced.

 

Edited 22 February by xman

[Jonathon1]

When I say ‘wet cambelt’ it’s because it runs in oil and it’s located in the engine casing  compared to a conventional dry belt which is outside the main casing. There have been reports of the former shedding particles inside the engine and blocking the oil ports.

[Breezy_Pete]

36 minutes ago, Jonathon1 said:

it runs in oil and it’s located in the engine casing

Where did you see that info? Doesn't sound like reality to me.

 

[Jonathon1]

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/

[Jonathon1]

Timing belt in oil systems, also known as wet belt systems, have been around for over 15 years. Vehicle manufacturers such as Ford, PSA, and Volkswagen use them. Wet belts are fully encased within the engine, whereas ‘dry’ systems are positioned outside of the engine crankcase. Wet belt systems were introduced to reduce the weight of components, reduce the engine size, maximise efficiency and meet emissions targets.

How can a wet belt system be damaged?

• Oil impurities such as soot and other oil oxidation breakdown debris can get between the belt teeth and pulleys, weakening the belt.
• Wear on the outer belt coating exposes the underlying materials directly to the oil, which may contain unburnt or partially combusted fuel that attacks exposed belt materials.
• The teeth can become detached, creating a smooth section on the belt. This causes the pulley to slip and changes the engine timing.
• The side wall of the belt being exposed to oil and oil debris can cause delamination of the belt layers.

Any failure from the belt that creates belt wear debris can cause problems elsewhere in the engine, due to blocked oil pathways, particularly in the oil pick up strainer. This would trigger a low oil pressure warning.

[Breezy_Pete]

I know they exist, but where does it say the 1.0TSI in a Karoq has one?

[xman]

55 minutes ago, Jonathon1 said:

When I say ‘wet cambelt’ it’s because it runs in oil and it’s located in the engine casing  compared to a conventional dry belt which is outside the main casing. There have been reports of the former shedding particles inside the engine and blocking the oil ports.

You are conflating Peugeot puretech and Ford ecoboom engines with VAG.

 

Afaik , VAG have never ever used wet cambelt tech in any engine designs, they only use conventional external cambelts or internal camchain

 

SSP-511_The_New_EA211_Petrol_Engine_Family.pdf

Edited 22 February by xman

[Jonathon1]

 Well that sounds 100% conclusive. That also answers my other question. It’s only the 1 litre tsi which has 3 cylinders, the others have 4.  Obviously I’ve  been looking at too many websites with misleading info. Many thanks xman for the research and manual. Brilliant!

 

[MickA]

I've switched to looking at Kamiq/Karoqs for my next purchase. Chipping in on the wet belt engines I've recently been looking at Peugeot and Vauxhall SUVs with the wet belts. It's reported that dodgy belts prematurely breaking up (if true) can cause issues as described above. Around year 2017/18 engines, so stopped looking at anything below 2019 to be safe.

Of course I'm here again, we'll never gone away, looking at Skoda.

Edited 22 February by MickA

[Rory]

On 22/02/2024 at 12:51, xman said:

 

Afaik , VAG have never ever used wet cambelt tech in any engine designs, they only use conventional external cambelts or internal camchain.

 

 

Drifting somewhat from the original question, but the diesels (EA288) use belt in oil to drive the oil pump.

[BoxerBoy]

I can only comment on the 3 cylinder 999cc motor in our Polo. A whole 110 HP I believe.

 

Perfectly adequate for 1 or 2 people making short trips.  Longest journey being 169 miles.

 

I haven’t calculated the Power to Weight figure. A good guide I think.

 

The bigger the car, the bigger the engine to provide an “adequate” performance.

 

But, we all have a different opinion on what is adequate.  Hence, I enjoy 190 horses in my Kodiaq rather than 150.

 

You can only go try out the various cars and form your own opinion.

 

And I know nothing about oily belts.

[Rory]

Both our daughters have the 1 litre 3 cyl 110PS  engines in their cars.  One is a 2018 Ateca - I've driven it a bit and "adequate" is the word I'd use too.

 

I mean, it is what is, if you know what I mean - you're not going to be doing fast A road overtakes in it, and it's so highly geared in 6th that a slope on the motorway can require dropping down a gear, but it drives perfectly well in everyday use.  She does 20K miles a year in hers and has done many long trips with her family.

 

Other daughter has 2023 Kamiq, but I haven't driven that.  She's away this weekend with her family on a cross-country trip and the car will be fully loaded.

 

Both cars are manual - we'd have had auto for the Kamiq but daughter wasn't bothered either way and we needed the car quickly and autos were less available.

 

I'm probably being somewhat old-fashioned, but for my own purposes I don't think I'd be happy with the 1 litre.  The 1.5 in wife's Karoq DSG OK, but I'm more used to the grunt of higher torque diesel autos.   Having said that, I could live with the 1 litre if I had to.

Edited 24 February by Rory

[mt60]

Hello. I have a Kamiq with a 1 liter engine. All E211 family engines have a dry timing belt. Additionally, the timing belt does not drive the water pump. My engine originally had 115 HP and after modification it has 135 HP. The 1.5 engine is an engine that switches to two-cylinder mode when driving on the highway. Regards

[MrAdamwood]

Do we know what the differences are between the gen 1 and gen 2 1.5's?

[pinkpanther]

22 minutes ago, MrAdamwood said:

Do we know what the differences are between the gen 1 and gen 2 1.5's?

Guessing this is the engine in my 2023 1.5 TSi?

 

Evo2?

 

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/07/20220719-evo2.html

Edited 24 February by pinkpanther