I'm dealing with a coolant leak while I'm in Europe. I've taken it to one garage who couldn't find the source of the leak so I'm seeking other opinions.

 

In the meantime, I've had to top up the coolant a couple times. I very stupidly thought "coolant is coolant" because the coolant maintenance section of my 2016 Superb's manual didn't actually specify which coolant type; perhaps they buried that somewhere else. I picked up some ready to use pre-mixed blue coolant at a petrol station.

 

Now that I know better, I checked the bottle and it's G11 when I should be using G12++ or G13. The bottle of what I have says it can be used with any car and mixed with any other coolant.

 

Am I safe to start topping up with the correct coolant now? Or should I keep using what I have been using?

 

Obviously I'm trying to get the leak resolved ASAP, but need to top up as a temporary measure. I also know I could get the current coolant flushed but that's easier said than done when in a foreign country and most garages are too busy to see me. I need the best temporary solution to get me back to the UK.

Hi, I think you will be ok with what you've used so far. Wait one and I'll check compatibility and come back. 

You're ok - G11 is compatible with G13 and G12++. Get engine refilled with G13 or G12++ / G12evo once the leak is fixed.

Be aware that the system should really be vacuum-filled with the new coolant to avoid issues with airlocks. 

ETA: I'm beat to it, but as reassurance see below, also if the coolant can be seen in the expansion bottle (or it's not too far below that) then just normal top ups will be fine.  Personally I'd get a load of either VW G12++ or G13 or G12evo and not use the G11 unless I really had to to keep the existing coolant less mixed. 

 

G12++ is for vehicles 2005-2008 on the chart I have and G13 2008 on, but the latest stuff is G12evo (don't ya just luv the number systems VW have).

 

I'm assuming the coolant you have is premixed ready to use rathe than concentrated (water needs adding).

 

Best not to mix different brands and types of coolant just in case but see chart below, the number you would have used when the car is new could be printed on your plastic expansion bottle.

 

Edited 20 May20 May by nta16
typos

4 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

You're ok - G11 is compatible with G13 and G12++. Get engine refilled with G13 or G12++ / G12evo once the leak is fixed.

Be aware that the system should really be vacuum-filled with the new coolant to avoid issues with airlocks. 

That's a big relief. I was reading horror stories and kicking myself for being so stupid. Seems like I dodged a bullet by picking up a "less wrong" coolant than I had thought.

 

I'm pretty sure the leak is due to the garage who replaced my water pump messing something up. I'm planning to take the car back to them once I'm back in the UK to hopefully fully resolve everything. I'll ask him about vacuum filling.

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

ETA: I'm beat to it, but as reassurance see below, also if the coolant can be seen in the expansion bottle (or it's not too far below that) then just normal top ups will be fine.  Personally I'd get a load of either VW G12++ or G13 or G12evo and not use the G11 unless I really had to to keep the existing coolant less mixed. 

 

G12++ is for vehicles 2005-2008 on the chart I have and G13 2008 on, but the latest stuff is G12evo (don't ya just luv the number systems VW have).

 

I'm assuming the coolant you have is premixed ready to use rathe than concentrated (water needs adding).

 

Best not to mix different brands and types of coolant just in case but see chart below, the number you would have used when the car is new could be printed on your plastic expansion bottle.

 

Very helpful chart. Thank you.

 

And yes, the stuff I used is premixed.

 

Still debating whether it's best to continue with G11 to avoid more mixing or start topping up with G13. Leaning towards topping up with G13 since the leak will be "helping" me drain the G11 stuff. 

2 hours ago, laurusbaurus said:

I'll ask him about vacuum filling.

I can assure you that you can get air locks and issues from not using pressure filling  (but you can get round it).  That won't be the cause of your leak.  I'd ask them to sort the leak and completely drain and refill with the correct coolant fresh coolant.

 

2 hours ago, laurusbaurus said:

Still debating whether it's best to continue with G11 to avoid more mixing or start topping up with G13. Leaning towards topping up with G13 since the leak will be "helping" me drain the G11 stuff. 

G12++, G13 or G12evo whichever is easiest to get, yes it's a ratio thing, more of one means less of the other.  Same when the coolant (or engine, gear, axle oils) are drained and changed the more residue of existing fluid left in the less fresh fluid can get in so the fresh fluid effect is diluted by the residue. some people and methods get more residue out that others.  So ask them to fully (as much as that is possible) the existing coolant (mix).  I hope that all makes sense.  😄

 

Good luck.

 

Edited 16 May, 20242 yr by nta16
typo

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

the number you would have used when the car is new could be printed on your plastic expansion bottle.

 

Just checked that: G13.

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

I can assure you that you can get air locks and issues from not using pressure filling  (but you can get round it).  That won't be the cause of your leak.  I'd ask them to sort the leak and completely drain and refill with the correct coolant fresh coolant.

 

G12++, G13 or G12evo whichever is easiest to get, yes it's a ratio thing, more of one means less of the other.  Same when the coolant (or engine, gear, axle oils) are drained and changed the more residue of existing fluid left in the less fresh fluid can get it so the fresh fluid effect is diluted by the residue. some people and methods get more residue out that others.  So ask them to fully (as much as that is possible) the existing coolant (mix).  I hope that all makes sense.  😄

 

Good luck.

 

 

That all makes sense. Thank you.

 

Can't wait to get the leak sorted and the tank filled with only proper coolant. Let's pray that I get the car back to England without an unscheduled stop along a French motorway. 

Hopefully you don't need that much but If you can get it proportionately a 5 litre bottle will be a lot less expensive if you need to top up that much or want the reassurance of having plenty on board just in case.

 

Normally I'd not worry about the engine getting warm or hot but in your case I'd use the oil temperature setting to keep an eye on things as the coolant gauge is biased to be rock steady on 90c so if you see the oil temperature has steeply risen and then the coolant needle has or is moving up off 90 you'll know you need to cool things down and possible check and top up.  Reducing the load on the engine and even if required turning off things like air-con and putting the heater on full heat (great fun in hot weather).  Depending on loads of factors, 50 mph in 5th gear (unless going up a good slope) should be effective at keeping things cool and still getting progress, might save a bit of mpg too to help pay for the coolant. 😄

 

4 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Hopefully you don't need that much but If you can get it proportionately a 5 litre bottle will be a lot less expensive if you need to top up that much or want the reassurance of having plenty on board just in case.

 

Normally I'd not worry about the engine getting warm or hot but in your case I'd use the oil temperature setting to keep an eye on things as the coolant gauge is biased to be rock steady on 90c so if you see the oil temperature has steeply risen and then the coolant needle has or is moving up off 90 you'll know you need to cool things down and possible check and top up.  Reducing the load on the engine and even if required turning off things like air-con and putting the heater on full heat (great fun in hot weather).  Depending on loads of factors, 50 mph in 5th gear (unless going up a good slope) should be effective at keeping things cool and still getting progress, might save a bit of mpg too to help pay for the coolant. 😄

 

Just ordered three 1L bottles. The 5L was much cheaper per litre of course, but the car will be rather full for the drive back. Easier to pack a few small bottles in little nooks than a single big one. I figure if I get down to one bottle, I'll track down more ASAP.

 

I'll take it easy on her. Fortunately won't be going through Germany so I won't be tempted to do a max speed check on the autobahn. 

 

How hot do you think is too hot for the oil temp before I need to cool things down?

Hopefully you won't need three bottles and if Sod's Law applies if you have three you'll only open one.

 

When I went on the autobahn there was a lot of traffic down to at one point crawling.

 

My wife's 1.2 TSI petrol Fabia shows around 96c normally (0w-30 oil IIRC) if heavy loads for car or engine IIRC 110c is fine but that's without a coolant leak.  Have a look in your Owner's Manual for normal operating temperature and try and keep off the higher figures. - Free VWSkoda pdf version of Owner's Manual here. - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

Obviously make sure your oil level is higher enough on the dipstick

 

Just be sensible don't have the car working too much with the engine poorly reduce the harder work the engine has to do, your car is loaded up so make sure the tyres are all inflated correctly for this, don't run with every electrical extra on, make any roof rack stuff aerodynamic, don't drive above say 40 mph with the windows open, make sure the radiator(s) are unobstructed, if you can avoid heavy congested and stop-start traffic, steep up hill climbs, a clear Péage over country roads.  You could look up stuff for high mpg, sensible hypermiling, not the stupid stuff.  It's usually cooler driving in the rain.  Keep plenty of fresh air in front of your car and radiator.

 

If you wanted when you stop the car you could lift the bonnet to get rid of the residual heat quicker from turning off the engine.

 

It's been a little while now since I've had a car where I've had a head gasket fail, or overheat or leak so the thoughts don't come as naturally to me as they would then, but then no thoughts do now anyway. 😄

   

Assumption is for full synthetic oil - American sites are saying ideal oil temperature for TSI's is in the range 110 to 127 C. Over 102 C is great for eliminating any combustion waste products from the oil.

I haven't done the conversion from F - but references suggest fully synth oil doesn't start to break-down until well north of 250 F   

Edited 16 May, 20242 yr by Warrior193
typo

Uhm, America and oil, they do things differently over there, 3k-miles and 5k-miles oil changes.  Never really checked this but I'd have to be doing illegal speeds (lone driver, unloaded car on flat roads) to get to 102c and much over in my wife's 1.2 TSI let alone 110-127c.  ETA: IIRC the Owner's Manual has 80-110c for normal range)  I've never really driven the car a long distance on a motorway to see what oil temperature it might show and anyway I tend to do mainly 60mph on motorways now.

 

Of course you have to be aware that things that work at extremes can be less beneficial in other uses and possibly not be as good or appropriate overall but just for figures, one non-US example - Millers Oil, competition fully synthetic 0w-30 (NT+) triple ester oil, suitable for 125c with peaks up to 150c (257f to 302f). - https://www.millersoils.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/MOTORSPORT-CFS-0w30-NT-7962.pdf

 

Edited 16 May, 20242 yr by nta16
ETA:

Just as a follow up to oil temperature, normal range as in the 2015 Fabia Owner's Manual (and a increasingly rare event of remembering correctly).

 

(If the oil isn't up to 50c three separate lines ( - - - ) are displayed not one long line.)

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Just be sensible don't have the car working too much with the engine poorly reduce the harder work the engine has to do, your car is loaded up so make sure the tyres are all inflated correctly for this, don't run with every electrical extra on, make any roof rack stuff aerodynamic, don't drive above say 40 mph with the windows open, make sure the radiator(s) are unobstructed, if you can avoid heavy congested and stop-start traffic, steep up hill climbs, a clear Péage over country roads.  You could look up stuff for high mpg, sensible hypermiling, not the stupid stuff.  It's usually cooler driving in the rain.  Keep plenty of fresh air in front of your car and radiator.

 

If you wanted when you stop the car you could lift the bonnet to get rid of the residual heat quicker from turning off the engine.

 

It's been a little while now since I've had a car where I've had a head gasket fail, or overheat or leak so the thoughts don't come as naturally to me as they would then, but then no thoughts do now anyway. 😄

   

 

Very helpful thank you. I'll keep these in mind.

 

I mostly keep it in Eco mode on long drives anyway to save on diesel. I haven't tested the manual/semi-auto mode of my DSG so I'll give that a go to keep the revs down.

 

We were also already planning to do our drives in the morning. We've scheduled overnight stays in various places that are only ~4 hours apart. If we set off at 7 and arrive before lunch, we'll hopefully avoid being on the road at the hottest times of the day.

 

 

27 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Just as a follow up to oil temperature, normal range as in the 2015 Fabia Owner's Manual (and a increasingly rare event of remembering correctly).

 

(If the oil isn't up to 50c three separate lines ( - - - ) are displayed not one long line.)

 

 

I checked the 2016 Superb owner's manual and this is all they include. Mental they wouldn't include all the information yours has.

 

5 hours ago, laurusbaurus said:

I mostly keep it in Eco mode on long drives anyway to save on diesel. I haven't tested the manual/semi-auto mode of my DSG so I'll give that a go to keep the revs down.

Don't drive at too lower revs or that lugging the engine, ignore what the computer says about when to change gear, from my experience it's often far too low revs for the good of mpg or saving the engine.  You know your car and when it feels right to change gear (don't always trust the computers they're no always right, they've been programmed and there are errors and mistakes in programs otherwise why all these updates (of course "user errors").  😁

 

 

5 hours ago, laurusbaurus said:

we'll hopefully avoid being on the road at the hottest times of the day

Yes of course, why would you want to be sitting in a tin box when it's hot, unless it's a sauna - and why are you spending so much time on your phone when you're supposed to be on your holidays, put it under one of your rear tyres and leave it there as a secondary handbrake.  😁

 

I hate and loathe the things (I like to drive a car and not just be a passenger behind the steering wheel) but cruise-control (in manual gear shift mode preferably, is that allowed by the car) is best way to keep throttle steady and get better mpg, saves micromovements of your right foot on the accelerator, and perhaps that automatic cruise control but I've never driven with that, I've only ever used the old cruise control once, in the 90s IIRC, car might have been older, I didn't like it at all. seemed to be a way to loose concentrating on your driving to me and imagine if you had distractions like turning the AM station in, turning the cassette tape over, looking at the page on the road atlas, talking on the phone. 😁

 

 

5 hours ago, laurusbaurus said:

I checked the 2016 Superb owner's manual and this is all they include. Mental they wouldn't include all the information yours has.

IF I'm correct diesels run cooler, particularly in winter but I've no idea about oil temperatures for them.  In the same way the coolant temperature gauge is biased to rock steady 90, on a petrol anyway, I suppose giving exact figures could cause too much worry.  And seeing the figures changing on readouts or gauges going up and down would cause more worry. 

 

That's why they removed the numbers off the old mechanical gauges and just had zones and 'C', perhaps 'N', and 'H' on the "water temp" gauge but you could still see the needles move between open road and restricted, and oil pressure go up and down with gear changes, oil temperature was too frightening to see particularly in very cold slow conditions or fast hot conditions, best not to know, only gave more to worry about. 😆

 

As I used to tell my wife , with the old cars it's just a gauge not an accurate, which she'd remind me of when we went below half a tank, which was unfair because that gauge was good but with a tank of less than  6 gallons and still a long way to go and petrol stations few and far between it was best I took notice.  

 

On the split dual gages you could have the 'water temp' needle of its scale and into the oil pressure scale, depending on the car it was no panic just meant the engine was hot but not overheating. 😁  Computers would probably not allow such reporting now.  😆

 

 

Enjoy your holiday, unless something happens just let us know when the garage has sorted all and what they tell you the cause was.

Edited 16 May, 20242 yr by nta16
typos

@nta16  It is a DSG / Semi -Auto.  It is not advising you when to change gear. 

38 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I hate and loathe the things (I like to drive a car and not just be a passenger behind the steering wheel) but cruise-control (in manual gear shift mode preferably, is that allowed by the car) is best way to keep throttle steady and get better mpg, saves micromovements of your right foot on the accelerator, and perhaps that automatic cruise control but I've never driven with that, I've only ever used the old cruise control once, in the 90s IIRC, car might have been older, I didn't like it at all. seemed to be a way to loose concentrating on your driving to me and imagine if you had distractions like turning the AM station in, turning the cassette tape over, looking at the page on the road atlas, talking on the phone. 😁

Fortunately I have the adaptive cruise control. Absolute treat to drive with on the motorway for long journeys. Previously I always had the old cruise control which looking back feels insanely dangerous as you pointed out.

 

40 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Enjoy your holiday, unless something happens just let us know when the garage has sorted all and what they tell you the cause was.

 

Thank you.

 

I managed to find a place to look at the car tomorrow thanks to a friend of a friend. I'll update the thread if they find anything worth reporting.

I thought you could bang it into manual and at least have the pretence of being in charge of something, after all CVTs show gear numbers.  😆

 

A chap in our club had a Lidl TT when they first came out, just after(?) the time Mercs were failing to negotiate around elks, and it confirmed the Audis were no longer the brand of the 70s and 80s.  His was away for most of 18 months while the manufacturer tried to sort all the issues, after the first time he insisted on a T as a replacement and that seemed to work but it put me off the marque.  I think DSG was after this but the Lidls used them first I heard of it IIRC.  I couldn't even cope with the manual push lever on the (Merc spoilt smarts) let alone the flappy paddle things on the steering wheel.  Then we went to a local show with smart owners meet (we were about 10-15 years older than any others) and a young chap explained I could just turn the switch round at the lever - but it was my wife's car so none of my business.  She insisted on having a grey import LHD only a number of months before smart UK established itself at Milton Keynes (20 miles away) but she preferred the LHD to RHD (battery, seatbelt position(s) IIRC) and smart UK were an absolute shambles and the Merc dealerships as bad as you remember at the turn of the centuries.

 

14 hours ago, nta16 said:

I thought you could bang it into manual and at least have the pretence of being in charge of something, after all CVTs show gear numbers.  😆

 

You can certainly do that. This video explains how it works: 

 

I haven't tested it myself, but I'll surely give it a go once I get my car back from the garage.

@nta16  You have a typo showing.   I assume AUDI and not LIDL.

 

Some CVT,s show gear numbers like a Subaru Lineatronic.  Early Justy.  A very special CVT,  The Magnetic eCVT.

Toyota iQ,s had CVT,s or Manuals and did not show gears. There were Toyotas with CVT and some with Automated Manuals.  Manual with Auto clutch.  2 pedal cars.

 

That was what the Smart ForTwo was an Automated Manual.  (Or there were manuals.)

As were Ford Durashifts.

 

PS

Audi call them S-tronic even when the same as a DSG. They come with Dry Clutches or Wet Clutches just as DSG,s since they are the same. 

But they also did Audi,s with CVT,s.  called the Multitronic. Also Tiptronics. 

 

Skoda Fabia 1.6 petrols, pre DSG, Tiptronic. 

 

PPS

I have had them all at one point. 

Edited 17 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

1 hour ago, laurusbaurus said:

I haven't tested it myself, but I'll surely give it a go once I get my car back from the garage.

Please don't you've got a VW diesel, think of the folk behind you.  😁

 

Thanks for the vid, enjoy your holiday.

 

42 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@nta16  You have a typo showing.   I assume AUDI and not LIDL.

Sorry I always get Lidl and Aldi mixed up.  😁  I can tell you never owned a (real?) Skoda in the 1980s.  😆  I do actually always get the two m, we've got one (eventually) being built about 100 yards away as the crow flies and I've still no idea which it is despite everyone reminding me and whether it's the one my wife likes.  It'll be chaos on the road with all the elderly shoppers and the big Mercs that go to these shops, they've already reduced the number of parking spaces on their plans.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

That was what the Smart ForTwo was an Automated Manual.  (Or there were manuals.)

I'm in one of those moods this morning, we had the model name before, the smart Passion Coupe (sit up and beg type, Leaksters were later, under Merc, well Daimler) and LHD.

 

Whatever the gearbox type was and whatever it was called I don't know and can't remember, something like an automated manual, whatever it didn't have a clutch pedal, I do remember that.  You could have it with flappy paddles on the steering wheel just like those red Fezzas.

 

Thanks to that A-Class falling over the £5k smart got all the safety electronics as on a £80K+ Merc (but as you know you'd not want a turn of the century Merc, that's what buggered the smarts) so the box of electronics was as big as the engine.  To give Merc their due the smart engine was great and all the electronics worked too.  There was a lag in gear changes in auto but you got used to it.

 

BMW copied the idea of boutique selling from smart for their MINI (Maxi) brand and interior design, Fiat too for the interior for their rereleased 500s.

 

I like using a clutch for gear changes even if I fluff them sometimes but with back and joint issues I can see (and feel) the benefits of autos for A to B driving .

 

I managed to get the car all the way from Italy to Cheshire successfully. I went through 5 litres of pre-mixed G13 to get it here. It was a fairly smooth journey all things considered. I checked the level before every drive and topped up accordingly. The low coolant warning only came on twice while driving which isn't too bad. The first time we pulled over in a tiny French village on the outskirts of Epernay. It was lunch time so plan was to eat while the engine cooled before topping up. Alas there was nothing to eat around the area except a 24/7 pizza vending machine! It did the job. 

 

I felt a great sense of relief arriving in Dover knowing my warranty would be valid again and that I could speak English in case of any serious problems.

 

As for the state of the car, it's begun having issues starting on a cold start. I need to try the ignition 1-2 times where it struggles and fails, wait a few minutes, and then it'll start finally after a bit more struggling.

 

I took it to a garage Friday morning to check both the start issue and coolant loss. They only had it for a couple hours, but they seem to think it could be a blown head gasket, not the pump. They also think the start issues are related due to low compression. I had ruled out blown head gasket based on what the two garages in Italy said. 

 

The same garage will look at it again tomorrow to give it a proper diagnosis. We'll see what they say.

 

Shame I've had so much trouble so far. I absolutely love the car and can't wait to resolve these issues to properly enjoy it.

@laurusbaurus  maybe someplace in the thread / posts i missed it but what actual engine does your car have & how many miles done? 

 

I hope not the cylinder head. Is it a VW Specialist that has looked at the car and are going to do the diagnosis?