I'm new to this DSG malarkey, but I like it.

 

My question is quite simple. If I were to drive my Fabia to a car park, come to a halt, then pull on the handbrake, and take my foot off the brake, and sit there listening to the stereo for a couple of hours, would the clutch eventually become ruined due to sitting on the bite-point for two hours?

 

I'm quite mechanically sympathetic and I like to know such things.

Why not Shift to N, Turn off the engine etc ?

44 minutes ago, JFrankMiller said:

I'm new to this DSG malarkey, but I like it.

 

My question is quite simple. If I were to drive my Fabia to a car park, come to a halt, then pull on the handbrake, and take my foot off the brake, and sit there listening to the stereo for a couple of hours, would the clutch eventually become ruined due to sitting on the bite-point for two hours?

 

I'm quite mechanically sympathetic and I like to know such things.

 

You should never release the footbrake in D when the manual handbrake is on and engine is running.  

Into Park, Parking Brake on, Foot off Brake Pedal.  Stop the engine if you are.

 

Best not keep the engine running for 2 hours.   Turn the car off and listen to the Radio using your smart phone. 

4 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

You should never release the footbrake in D when the manual handbrake is on and engine is running.  

 

What if you're sitting halfway up a steep hill? 

 

Wouldn't you release it momentarily and wait for it to start trying to pull away before releasing the handbrake?

4 hours ago, aubrey said:

Why not Shift to N, Turn off the engine etc ?

 

Because I'm asking a hypothetical question to see if there's a safety system which prevents you from burning out the clutch on the DSG gearbox.

 

I'm not actually interested in sitting listening to music for two hours while my clutch grinds down to bare metal.

From what my 1.2 DSG Yeti does I'd say if in D then drive is not engaged until the accelerator is pressed a bit. So in D the clutches are disengaged at idle.

However R is different in that foot off the brake and the car goes backwards, without any accelerator action required. So don't hypothetically do this test in Reverse.

1 hour ago, JFrankMiller said:

What if you're sitting halfway up a steep hill? 

 

Wouldn't you release it momentarily and wait for it to start trying to pull away before releasing the handbrake?

That's what hill hold is for, the ABS Unit will hold the vehicle while your foot goes from brake to accelerator, preventing roll back 

Just now, aubrey said:

That's what hill hold is for, the ABS Unit will hold the vehicle while your foot goes from brake to accelerator, preventing roll back 

 

Ah. Nice. I will try this feature out.

This 2021 forum discussion may be worth reading through.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/489586-fabia-10-tsi-110hp-dsg-7-tips-tricks-advices-experiences/

11 hours ago, JFrankMiller said:

 

What if you're sitting halfway up a steep hill? 

 

Wouldn't you release it momentarily and wait for it to start trying to pull away before releasing the handbrake?

 

As others have said, that's why Hill Hold Control is bundled with DSG's (And some manuals)

 

Autohold is much better but it's not fitted to VAG cars with manual handbrake.

1 hour ago, DerekU said:

This 2021 forum discussion may be worth reading through.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/489586-fabia-10-tsi-110hp-dsg-7-tips-tricks-advices-experiences/

 

Thanks for that thread. I just looked through it and this bit from @Phil-E caught my attention:

Quote

"Even in D with your foot firmly on the brake the clutch(es) are fully disengaged as in N anyway. The clutch will start to engage if you only apply light pressure to the pedal though."

 

So I guess that answers my question. Sorry if my original post (and one or two replies!) sounded flippant. I was genuinely curious as to whether you could damage the clutch by leaving it on the bite-point. I've only been driving my Fabia for 3 weeks and whenever I've been sitting with my foot (firmly) on the brake at traffic lights I thought it was being held on the bite-point. But if Phil's quote is true, it actually holds off the bite-point until you start releasing your foot off the brake. That doesn't excuse my rather naive question about leaving the handbrake on and having your foot off the brake, of course. In that situation it probably would, indeed, wear down the clutch.

 

I tried testing the Hill Hold Control feature this morning, but it wasn't a very steep incline that I was sat on. It seemed to work, but I shall have to find a steeper hill, to confirm 😃

That's interesting info about there being two different systems for holding the car on a hill, @logiclee. Thanks.

 

I'm very happy with the way my car drives. I just have to ask these possibly daft questions until I get a fuller knowledge of how it's working.

 

Edited 18 May, 20242 yr by JFrankMiller

Skoda Hill-Hold

 

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/karoq_car_snow_hill-jpg/

Thanks for that @DerekU

 

So... the rule of thumb for using the handbrake on my Fabia 110PS DSG is that I should only use the handbrake when parking up, right? Or in a motorway queue when it's likely that I will be stationary for a few minutes, betweek putting the gearbox into Park and taking my foot off the brake pedal?

 

Edited 18 May, 20242 yr by JFrankMiller

That Hill Hold link is really about a Manual.  But the DSG and Hill Hold Assist / Hill Hold control is much the same. But the DSG should never Stall even without Hill Hold activated.

It is activated when even not steep when there is Autohold by pushing the Brake Pedal hard enough. 

Autohold holds all 4 wheels.  Hand Brakes / e Brakes just rear wheels. 

 

 

You can use a Hand / Parking brake for Hill Starts,  even when you have 'Hill hold assist', as that is only a couple of seconds from brake pedal to accelerator.

 

If i am stopped and waiting at a Traffic Light / Pedestrain crossing on a slope and i am foot on brake pedal i still apply the Hand / Parking brae to ensure not rolling back.

 

e-Brakes / and Autohold can do away with that, but if in someone elses car i still will flick the Parking Brake switch, just to be sure to be sure. 

 

one foot driving, automatics, semi automatics and all the features is no reason not to drive now as you learned if you did in the days of Hand Brakes.  & nothing extra...

Edited 18 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

Yeah. I hear you @Ootohere. I've been using the handbrake when stopped at lights on a steep hill that I regularly go up.

I'm gonna try out the Hill Hold Control feature when I'm on a hill and it's clear enough behind, just to see how effective it is.

After that, I will be applying discretion in using the handbrake as well, if it's a particularly difficult slope.

@JFrankMiller Never use both feet.   I only have a left foot so there is never any chance of me being on the accelerator and also the brake pedal.

 

The brake pedal applied does cut power to the engine with a DSG. 

Which is why fancy, heel / toe driving , trail braking etc is pretty pointless for road driving. 

Our Fabia and Karoq are both DSG. 

 

Fabia has Hill Hold with manual handbrake, Karoq has Autohold and E-Brake.  I only ever use the handbrake/e-brake if the gearbox is in P.  

 

Our Octavia is manual gearbox and manual handbrake.   Boy is it a pain in the arse nowdays but it's a great workhorse and we've had it 12 years. 

Edited 18 May, 20242 yr by logiclee

Here we are talking Fabia, but even cars with Autohold not everone has it enabled. So not holding the car other than on the footbrake at a halt / stop.

Then there is those that go to N when stopped for extended stops, maybe cars behind.   Maybe no Stop / Start enabled.

 

If an e-brake car then the e-brake applies when N is selected in most cars, So using the parking brake.   Also putting out the Brake Lights which are on now with all the new VW group cars and others with Autohold enabled and working. (Same as have the brake pedal held.)

Interesting thread, particularly as I do sometimes use both feet and heel and toe in the XC40 which is a DSG or DCT as Volvo call it. Reason being that I sometimes want to restart the engine when stop/start has activated at traffic lights etc. (it can no longer be turned off) or restart the engine when coasting to provide engine braking.

 

I can understand it is not good to do this with a DSG when the engine is already running as there will be conflict between the brake and clutches. I understand that some VWG cars have a coasting function, does the engine stop with these or tickover?

 

The Volvo is a mild-hybrid which I guess will be introduced to VWG cars at some stage? It does make for very complicated drivetrains though which I'm not a great fan of and one reason for going for a Fabia now before they adopt it. 

4 hours ago, Ootohere said:

 the Brake Lights which are on now with all the new VW group cars and others with Autohold enabled and working

 

Yep, not sure why they changed that.  My old Passat (2010) didn't do it but all our later cars with autohold do.

I assume that it is so that a vehicle behind is aware that your car has the brakes on whether footbrake or Autohold and therefore not to anticipate you moving off as could be the case if you applied the handbrake. Over time I guess that manual handbrakes will disappear.

 

Once when I had the Yeti (manual) I was stopped at lights and the lorry driver behind tooted at me. I realised my high level brake light was blinding him so applied the handbrake instead. You won't have that option as more and more cars are fitted with Autohold.

Edited 18 May, 20242 yr by VAGCF

'Autohold'  has to be switched on.  There is an option, Autohold on, Autohold off.  & once selected as on it is until then switched off. 

 

I assume the brake lights now on with Autohold is because if you are the last car in a queue that doppy drivers know the traffic is at a stop.

 

Which is why if you are not the last in the queue and the traffic is stopped for an extended time you apply the handbrake and select N.

Not P and going through reverse twice.  

That is for those in the UK that remember the Highway Code on Brake lights. 

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by Ootohere

13 hours ago, VAGCF said:

...The Volvo is a mild-hybrid which I guess will be introduced to VWG cars at some stage? It does make for very complicated drivetrains though which I'm not a great fan of and one reason for going for a Fabia now before they adopt it...

 

My previous car was a 2021 Hyundai i20 MHEV (Mild Hybrid Electric Vehicle) that had a 'sailing' feature that would switch off the car's motor in certain circumstances while the car was being driven. I remember asking on a Hyundai forum why it was called 'sailing' as the Owner's Manual never used that word and was told that, when it happened, a yacht symbol appeared on the instrument-cluster. A small (but very expensive) 48V lithium battery lived in the i20's spare-wheel well, with a tiny 12V battery and a belt-drive starter-generator under the bonnet. There were plenty of i20 owner complaints about the 'sailing' feature not operating or becoming faulty and, when there were problems, the system's complexity made diagnosis difficult. I feared it and - like you - the Fabia Mk4 not being a MHEV was a positive selling point for me.

 

Since 2021 the Skoda Octavia has been available with a 1.0litre 3-cylinder petrol motor and mild-hybrid technology (e-TEC) and, more recently, the Superb can be had as a MHEV with a 1.5litre petrol motor. In principle (I suppose) those motors and MHEV technology could find  their way into smaller Skodas like the Fabia, but this article suggests that this won't happen.

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/361150/new-euro-7-emissions-regs-could-kill-skoda-fabia

@Ootohere - good point about if at end of queue, I press the footbrake in that situation as following vehicles approach, particularly on a fast road. 

 

@DerekU - that's similar to the XC40 mild-hybrid system. It does have benefits as the battery helps on pulling away and acceleration which is very noticeable over my previous one which wasn't slow with getting on for 200 bhp. As a package the MH is very good, as well as the performance the economy is very good for a quite big SUV. It will do 40 mpg easily and on a run approaches 50 mpg,  it's a 2.0 turbo petrol. The additional cost of MH in a bigger, more expensive car isn't such an issue as in a small car.

 

What concerns me is the complexity and reliability as there are even problems with new cars. No way am I keeping one without a warranty, but the only way to have a full manufacturers warranty is to keep buying new and most folks can't afford to do that.  As I've said before, government legislation and hence manufacturers ever more stringent regulation thinking is only around the initial buyer with no thought for subsequent owners without the financial means to repair such complicated cars with the result that they are scrapped prematurely which makes no sense in the bigger picture.

 

It will be a real shame if the likes of Fabia and Polo do disappear as they are forcing folks into bigger cars. They are not exactly small cars anyway now as they have grown to the size of earlier Golfs.

 

I'm approaching the end of my car buying now at 70 but it will be a real quandary if and when I do come to change. Not ready for electric and the types of ICE will probably reduce and be even more complicated.

Edited 19 May, 20242 yr by VAGCF