Hello everyone 👋🏼 

 

After reading a few horror stories about the manual gearboxes on the Fabias and VW/SEAT equivalents, I've been considering doing some preventative maintenance on the gearbox now it's covered 50k miles. 

 

What spec oil is required on the 1.2 tsi 5 speed manual transmissions? 

Is this easy to DIY & how much oil is required? 

 

Does anyone know the price I should expect to be charged by a garage if I go that route? 

 

Thanks 

Welcome.

 

Where are you reading these horror stories, on here?

 

Someone will be along to help you with your questions.

I done my own on my wife's 2015 1.2 TSI, 5-speed (PED 02T) box, I used a Millers 75w80 (GL5) because it was a good oil at half price.  Now I would use Millers EE Performance MTF 75w (GL4), this includes a load of VW number for those that need/want to follow VW dictates on oils. - https://www.millersoils.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/8327-EE-Performance-MTF-75w-1.pdf

 

Yes it easy for DIY (easier that other simple jobs on this car which can be unnecessarily more of a PITA thanks to the design and VW fantastic-plastics) if I can do it anyone can.

 

How much you need depends on how thorough you are, a Dealership might be a quick cold drain and get away with 1 litre perhaps but I don't know, as DIY it's a bit over 1 litre so you need to buy 2 litres.

 

I've no idea what a garage would charge probably a very high price for 2 litres of oil, waste disposal of old oil perhaps, and labour at an  hourly rate., plus VAT on all

 

(Just about all of the following was lifted from a previous post of mine on this subject.)

 

I've not seen any horror stories about the 1.2  5-speed (PED 02T) box and  some engineers and mechanics will tell you that it is a waste of time and money to change the transmission oil as it will last the life of the car, that is correct it is just a matter of if you believe that the oil, and the additive package with the oil, remain good enough throughout that whole time of the car.  Personally, and there is evidence, I see/believe that that fresh oil will be better as it will be overall less worn (for want of a better word) but people, as with other matters, can have strong believe on this either way and debating oil beliefs is endless.

 

If you change the oil you want to check first that you get the right oil and that you can get at and loosen the fill/level plug - you don't want to take the drain plug out and then find you cannot get the fill plug out.  Best to get the transmission oil hot or warm (usual cautions here) and remove the fill plug to ease flow and volume and leave to drain for as long as practical to get as much of the old oil out so as much fresh new oil can go in.  There will always be some residue of old oil left in you are just trying to reduce this amount of residue.

 

I personally at the end of the drain pour some warmed (solar gain or oil bottle in hot water) fresh new oil into the transmission with the drain plug still out to act as a sort of little end flush/rinse and again let that fully drain for as long as practical.

 

On this gearbox (PED 02T) the fill and drain plugs weren't at a big difference in their level on the box and the fill plug was a bit of play to get a tool at and undo, not difficult just a bit awkward as Sod's Law whatever I had available wasn't ideal length but could be done.  IIRC(?) the plug fitting was something annoying like a H7 not in my tools so borrowed.

 

When I had a look to see what tools I would need and check I could loosen the fill plug and remove it (cold box and oil) I took the fill plug out a little and had a fair run of oil which suggested to me that perhaps the box was overfilled when fitted/delivered to factory I don't know if that is the case or the case for all others but the car needs to be level front to back and side to side for refilling (unless you lift the car higher one side and overfill again).

 

Filling for me was best done for with the help of my (reluctant) "glamorous assistant" holding a funnel with a length garden hose attached in the engine bay to slowly pour the fresh oil in for refill whilst I laid under the car making sure the other end of the hose remained at the edge of the filler hole and to shout stop when the oil overflowed out of the filler hole.  Of course you could use other methods.

 

As I couldn't turn the gears in the gearbox to check oil fill level again I put the fill plug back in and went for a quick short drive leaving the plastic cover off and breeze blocks in place.  I had a mug of tea and done some better stuff than farting about with cars (that's a lot of other things for me) to make sure gearbox and oil are cold to check level, look for leaks before I put the plastic cover back on and tidy up, clean the tools and put them away.

 

I always take a lot of time on these jobs, I never go at any pace other than slowly, I couldn't care less about any macho rubbish about how quick someone else can do the job (they usually exaggerate and don't allow for setting everything up, checking work and putting everything away anyway).  I also allow time for teas and pees and getting distracted by doing more interesting stuff.  I used to get neighbours ask what I was doing but they soon learnt that if I was working on our cars I was best left alone (yet I don't mind working on neighbours cars and stopping for a chat as I volunteer for those jobs).

 

HTH.

 

Edited 9 June, 20241 yr by nta16
ETA: good point about car being completely level from another poster

If you want to save a few pennies this is the equivalent to what I put in, Millers XF Premium MTF 75w (GL4). - https://www.millersoils.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/8374-XF-Premium-MTF-75w-5.pdf

 

8 hours ago, nta16 said:

 some engineers and mechanics will tell you that it is a waste of time and money to change the transmission oil as it will last the life of the car, that is correct it is just a matter of if you believe that the oil, and the additive package with the oil, remain good enough throughout that whole time of the car. 

Well, technically they are correct. That said, from about 40_000 miles the effective viscosity of the gear oil starts to rise, and you may achieve lower power losses (hence better mpg, gear shift quality and acceleration) with a change. This is more marked with an automatic, to the extent that it is a service recommendation from ZF Transmission,

@Paws4Thot Where do you find the 40,000 miles recommendation for ZF,s?

ZF Automatic gearbox oil changes are at 80,000 / 8 years or with BMW 62,000 miles / 8 years.

 

It is VW wet Clutch DSG,s that are at 40,000 miles, or 80,000 miles with a DQ381 or 380. 

Edited 9 June, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Out of curiosity and for education which of those gearboxes was it that the VW engineers changed their minds on which oil should be used?

 

Most important factor when changing oil in manual gearbox is that the car is level, front to back, and side to side when refilling.

Drain and fill holes are both right at the back of diff, so if done with car jacked up just at front, you won't be able to get nearly enough oil in when refilling.

 

Picture a car on a workshop lift, nice and level, that's how the 'refill until it runs out of fill hole' is designed to work.

 

Refill volume is approx 2 litres I think, but I don't have the mk3 workshop manual to confirm.

Can look up part number of oil with VIN, @alep, if you wish.

Thanks to all 

 

Plenty to think about and the instructions couldn't be clearer. 

 

As mentioned in my initial post (although I could have explained much more clearly) the aim is to hopefully prevent future gearbox-related issues as I intend to keep the vehicle beyond 100k miles. Of course it isn't 100% avoidable but should give it the best chance. Never have believed in the "sealed for life" line VW/Skoda like to shout about, even less so when the standard warranty is limited to 60k/3 years whichever comes sooner. 

 

In the meantime, I'll get a quote from the dealership (for a giggle) and also find out the price of VWs genuine gear oil. 

 

Cheers 

2 hours ago, alep said:

even less so when the standard warranty is limited to 60k/3 years whichever comes sooner. 

Yes, that's how much faith they have in their product, with good reason on some of their parts quality but the standard 5-speed manual boxes seem fair enough for type of car, the oil change will marginally help in longer term use and maintenance but it's unlikely any real gearbox related issues particularly up to 100k-miles.  Doing it yourself is just cost of oil and disposal, bit of cleaning consumables perhaps but paying labour charges takes you into diminishing returns for 100k-miles unless they are to be serve or gruelling use of car and gearbox (clutch).  If you are new to the car I'd save the labour cost for other bits that might fail.

 

Also bear in mind VW don't produce any oils they just have their label stuck on the bottle, if you can get the VW label soil at a reasonable cost then fair enough but you may find you can get better for perhaps even less.

 

Their current numbered coolant (G12evo) also has "suitable as a filled-for-life filling" is miscible with G13 and G12++, your expansion tank probably has G13 on it but G12evo has superseded this in the German numbering system and use in vehicles, if I hadn't already changed it I think I'd leave it in for 10 years.

 

A 100k-miles is nothing to modern vehicles, well for the engine and gearbox at least.

 

Do bear in mind the Dealership will do a quick cold partial empty empty and refill, you would probably take more care and do a better job.

 

Good luck whatever you decide or do.

 

@nta16  In 2012 VW did a world wide recall on DQ200 7 speed Twin Clutch DSG,s because of sulphur / corrosion and a blowing fuse and loss of drive.

(That World Wide Recall excluded Europe because seemingly the climate / environment was different to the likes of New Zealand, where cars got a new MCU.)

In some world regions they got a 10 year / 100,000 mile warranty extension. 

In Europe tough titty if it goes pop. 

 

So the Synthetic oil was changed to Mineral & a software update was done. 

(Eventually in 2014 in Europe a Service Campaign was called on 2009-2012 DQ200,s)

 

Then in 2017 a Service campaign was called on some 2013-2015 DQ200,s, Heat / Pressure / Cracks, leaks, failures.

@Ootohere thanks.  For this case I was only referring to the VW 5-speed manual gearbox, certainly the PED 02T fitted to my wife's 2015 Fabia, whilst it's quite small family saloon/hatch around town feel and operation it's fair enough for operation of particular vehicle and seems robust enough, unlike other bits that have fell apart or worn a lot quicker than on other manufacturers offerings.  Always noticeable that the "cheaper" brands offer the longer warranties with the like of VW relying on British car snobbery and an out of date good reputation of their brand(s).  Not to mention the UK belt rip-off and other stuff over the year.  Heard something this morning about the Japanese manufacturers being further twisted to the UK and USA ways of the motor trade, I'll catch up with it later.

 

ETA: I did note alep has the 2016 car mapped to 130ps hence the caution note.

 

Edited 11 June, 20241 yr by nta16
typo

Has anyone noticed that engaging reverse gear produces a graunch noise? Mine doesn’t do it every time but when it does, even if I engage reverse very carefully and ensuring the clutch pedal is completely to the floor, I get a loud graunch until the gears engage. All other gears are fine. Is this a clutch problem or maybe a gearbox oil problem?

Is the noise from when the car engine and/or ambient temperature are cold or very cold and/or when the idle engine revs are higher?

 

In a 2020 car it shouldn't be a gear oil problem (unless for some reason the oil level has got low).  To avoid this happening you do need the engine revs to be at low idle and not trying to engage gear when not fully stopped (handbrake fully on or car held still with firm foot brake application).  Some people find engaging another gear, with clutch fully depressed, before engaging reverse or first helps, possibly the delay allows engine revs to drop enough.

 

With engaging first gear I have sometimes found I need to let the car move (roll back or forward slightly) to get the gear fully aligned, never getting a graunch as you can feel if the manual gear lever is awkward with engagement very early.   The 5-speed manual gearbox in my wife's 2015 VWŠkoda Fabia has never felt the best but is more than adequate, (improved a bit when I changed to fresh new better quality gearbox oil after 6 years from factory fill) I've never believe the "German engineering quality" guff, certainly not for cars from this century.

 

Thanks. It happens more when the engine is warm and has been running. I always wait for the engine to settle at tick over before trying to engage reverse. I have tried gently and slowly moving the stick to reverse but the noise continues until it finally fully engages.

Try engaging another gear before reverse (with clutch pedal fully depressed) or letting the car roll a little then trying again to see if alignment gets better and smoother engagement, if there's graunching at the start of engagement I'd normally stop trying to engage gear at that time and way. 

 

Have a look in the forum threads as I think this subject has come up before but I can't remember the outcome(s) and IIRC was more about 1st gear but could well have remembered wrong.  Do check that your clutch pedal can fully depress and you haven't got something like loose, rolled, over-mat or lipstick or battery or something there preventing fully depression.

 

To me, reading this on a forum the issue/fault as described sounds like it might be either with or because of the gearbox, clutch or driver or possibly a combination or permutation of two or three.  If it's the clutch it would probably progress to being highlighted in other gears and in other ways.  What is the history of the car was it ever driven by someone who slips the clutch or drives with their foot on, or "hovering over" the clutch pedal, or used in an area with lots of step slopes and/or hills or car used for towing something.

 

ETA: just thought I didn't put another thing to try, if you haven't already tried this - don't try engaging reverse if graunching starts instead put lever in neutral, lift off clutch pedal fully for a second then fully depress the clutch pedal again and try engagement again or a double dip the clutch pedal quickly then try gear engagement again.

  

9 hours ago, MattRuss said:

Has anyone noticed that engaging reverse gear produces a graunch noise? Mine doesn’t do it every time but when it does, even if I engage reverse very carefully and ensuring the clutch pedal is completely to the floor, I get a loud graunch until the gears engage. All other gears are fine. Is this a clutch problem or maybe a gearbox oil problem?

 

If you wait until the gearbox has stopped turning after disengaging the clutch and you still get a grinding noise, the clutch is dragging and you probably have a clutch or flywheel issue. (reverse has no syncro)

 

You will probably find if you select another gear first before quickly putting it into reverse you won't get the noise.

 

I had this exact issue on a Golf and it was the DMF failing

 

 

Edited 3 January, 20251 yr by SuperbTWM