Hi everyone.

 

i have the AU Scala Launch which came with 205/45 r18 Goodyear Asymmetric 3. Great performing but rubbish noise and they definitely don’t tolerate pot holes.

 

I replaced two with 215/40 r18 (thanks La Niña) F1 sport. Same handling, slightly better noise. Can’t buy 205 down under… not sure why 
 

I just replaced the remaining A3s with 215/45 r18 F1 sport thinking ride might improve with the higher sidewall. They’re on front axle.

 

It feels more compliant but my sensations tells me its lost its excellent body control, especially on highway. Just a bit bouncy now where before there was never any rebound. Trust the Germans/Czech

 

I’m no engineer but I’m guessing it’s the increase tyre weight and higher centrifugal forces which the springs and dampers aren’t tuned for…I didn’t think of this before and I don’t like the sensation and slightly worried it’s less safe in emergency…

 

ironically, it’s a 93 tyre and XL rated and is quite loud too. 
 

I suppose the question is, would the weight difference be the cause? 
 

im thinking of replacing them with 40s to have the excellent body control back and lower noise…

 

unless anyone can suggest a better tyre than the Goodyear?

 

I’m happy to spend on a quality tyre. Like shoes, somethings you just don’t skimp on

 

Any insights appreciated 

@Mikey_au - It's also possible that the tyre pressures you're using are not the best for the non-EOM tyre make and size.

8 hours ago, Mikey_au said:

...I’m guessing it’s the increase tyre weight and higher centrifugal forces which the springs and dampers aren’t tuned for…

 

The springs and shock absorbers work with all tyre sizes. The springs and shock absorbers aren't tuned for the tyre size that the car is fitted with, but the weight of the vehicle.

 

Skoda fit the same springs and shock absorbers irrespective of what tyre sizes are fitted, whether it's 195/65R15, 195/60R16, 205/55R16, 205/50R17, 205/45R18, etc.

 

Running different outside diameter tyres front and rear isn't a good idea, especially when the difference is 3.4% as shown in the chart below.

 

Outside diameter of tyres

215/40R18 629.2mm

215/45R18 650.7mm (3.4% bigger outside diameter compared to 215/40R18)

 

If you're looking for a quiet, comfortable ride, summer touring tyres in size 205/50R17 fitted to the standard 6.5Jx17 ET40 rims would make more sense. Although not quite in the same league for sportiness as 205/45R18 fitted to the standard 7Jx18 ET39 rims, it's still more sporty than 205/55R16 fitted to the standard 6Jx16 ET38 rims.

 

Another benefit of moving up to a 50 aspect ratio is that the tyres' sidewalls tend to bulge out more from the rims, thereby providing much better protection from kerbing damage.

 

Michelin Primacy 4+ 205/50R17 89V (Euro label C A 69dB)

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Michelin/Primacy-4_/205-50-R17-89V/D-126315

 

6.5Jx17 ET40 5/100 57.1 alloy rims

https://eshop.skoda-auto.cz/cs_CZ/alu-kolo-propus-17-scala-kamiq/p/654071497K+FL8

 

Actual inflated width of tyre

205/55R16 fitted to 6J rim 208mm

205/50R17 fitted to 6.5J rim 214mm

205/45R18 fitted to 7J rim 206mm

215/45R18 fitted to 7J rim 213mm

 

Actual width of rim (assumes actual width is 24mm wider than J width)

6J rim 176.4mm

6.5J rim 189.1mm

7J rim 201.8mm

 

As you can see in the chart below, the sidewalls of the 55 and 50 aspect ratio tyres (ie. 205/55R16 and 205/50R17) bulge out from their rims by 15.8mm and 12.45mm respectively. The sidewalls on the 205/45R18 bulge out from its rim by a shockingly low 2.1mm. Hence, 205/45R18 when fitted to a 7J rim provides very little rim protection from kerbing damage.

 

For the 215/45R18 tyre size fitted to a 7J rim...the sidewalls bulge out by 11.2mm, ie. 5.6mm each side. So still well short of the 205/55R16 and 205/50R17 fitted to their 6J and 6.5J rim widths.

 

How much wider tyre is than rim

205/55R16 is 31.6mm wider than 6J rim, ie. tyre bulges out by 15.8mm each side of rim

205/50R17 is 24.9mm wider than 6.5J rim, ie. tyre bulges out by 12.45mm each side of rim

205/45R18 is 4.2mm wider than 7J rim, ie. tyre bulges out by 2.1mm each side of rim

 

Another benefit of 17" rims compared to 18" rims is the reduction in unsprung weight. The 17" alloy rims might weigh about 10kg each, whereas the 18" alloy rims might weigh about 11.5kg each. So that's a 6kg reduction in rim weight, and 7.5kg if you include the weight of a matching spare wheel. 215/45R18 might also be a heavier tyre than 205/50R17...so that's yet more unsprung weight.

 

Edited 2 July, 20241 yr by Carlston

You are quite right to highly value tyres as they are a very complex component that are often misunderstood and overlooked or not given the prime importance they deserve.

 

In Aus for some reason some owners run their tyres at well over manufacturers' recommendations I've never found out why.  I understand that the tyres could be manufactured differently to suit Aus conditions and road surfaces but this would be taken into consideration by VW, at least t for the make, model and sizes sold with the models.

 

Modern cars for decades now have had the fashion for oversized wheels and  wide over short tyres, kinda party frocks and high heels which is fine but not best for normal drudgery, race track smoothness great but real world roads not always good.

 

You have two different makes, models, sizes, age and wear of tyres on the two axles so that might give effect to road hold, handling, ride, comfort and noise.

 

You have 18" alloy wheels, unless they are very special wheels they will be heavy, heavier than if they were in 17" or 16".  A 215/45 r18, 93 tyre will probably be heavier than a 205/45 r18 non XL tyre, the XL could make a difference to the tyre overall - but with the heavy 18" alloys there's not going to be much odds to the car with any of the weights.  You can look anywhere on this site and you will never find me praising the VW engineers unnecessarily, quite the opposite, but within reasonable limits they wont have the standard  suspension far out using factory spec components and parts (longevity and quality of parts is a different matter perhaps).  The unsprung weight on the four corners is already quite heavy a little more wont upset it.

 

215/45 r18 against 205/45 r18 nominally only gives 6mm (0.2") difference to sidewall height but then the tyre is XL so presumably stiffer sidewall. 

 

You have not got a lightweight sports car you have a heavy, high-rised 5-seater with luggage and possible roof rack and bike rack vehicle where the driver is quite remote from what's going on because of all sorts of electric and electronic driver "aids" and safety devices, insulation, entertainment, ****Nav, phone interreference and interruptions.

 

215/45 r18 against 205/45 r18 nominally only gives 6mm (0.2") difference to sidewall height but then the tyre is XL so presumably stiffer sidewall.

 

Within in a restricted range the size, width and height of tyres and wheels doesn't make as much difference as perhaps quality and type of tyre fitted, a good 16" wheel with good 16" tyre would probably give a more comfortable and perhaps quieter ride (cabin noise is different to road noise) than the same 18" wheel and 18" tyre, their might be small differences in ride but if required adjust driving will overcome those I'd say and could give improvement overall.

 

You would need another Aus 2017 Scala driver to suggest which tyre might suit you, meaning make and model (and even size) but they'd need to be driving similar to you, similar environment and use, and then you've only got to look at tyre reviews to see one man's meat is another man's poison.  You could look and/or ask on the Scala forum here. - 'Škoda Scala' - https://www.briskoda.net/forums/forum/384-škoda-scala/

 

Generally you'd be better with four tyres of the same make, model, size, age and wear - I assume yours isn't one of these where all four wheels are always driven - have the tyres at the correct pressure, all checked when the tyres are 'cold' with the same reliable pressure gauge (or at least consistent).  Despite not being Friday night sparkly 16" wheels and tyres are easily enough especially as you are prepared to put the best tyres on them but you might get a better range of high-performance at 17" but I don't know.

 

These are probably not the answers you were expecting but you are in the 'Tyres & Wheels' forum and not the Project, Styling or Performance sections.  😁

 

HTH. 

 

@Mikey_au @nta16 has raised another very good point. Unless the package is specifically "tuned" for differential tyre sizes front and rear, no 4WD system (be it part-time reactive like Haldex, full time like Quattro system, or part-time selectable like an old Land Rover "series") will appreciate differential tyre sizes front and rear, and the result may be the car "trying to fall over itself", particularly when cornering.

Thank you everyone. Appreciate your insights. 
 

I’m having 215/40 F1 (89w) F1 sports replace the two-week old 215/45s tomorrow. Seems wasteful but I v much dislike the car dynamics and I don’t trust it at limits anymore, it’s awful feeling. I’m amazed how sensitive the suspension is to slight changes. I’ll ask the shop to weigh them i’m curious. It has to be centrifugal forces. 
 

What’s very annoying is VAG sold the car with 205/45 18 which are not a size sold in Australia expect for budget Chinese brands. So my only choice for a high quality is 215/40 or 225/45. The 225 is an almost perfect match for diameter but appears a bit too wide for car weighing in at only 1200kg (and incredible feat when you think of it). 
 

Skoda also don’t sell 16 rims in Aus and mine came with the Vega Aero which is actually a lovely rim and it seems a silly expenses to downgrade. 
 

There’s a general perception that slightly overinflated tyres handle poor roads better. Australia can dish up some really bad roads once you get out of the cities. I imagine that’s why most ppl do it. 
 

Thanks again folks 

 

When I had more money I used to give tyres a 1,000 miles to see if I got used to the handling but that was on sportscars, unless the tyres are really bad now I put up with them until time to change.

 

I'm not sure a mass market standard VW product will be that sensitive in the suspension or that it'll be centrifugal forces, to me it'll be like many you underestimate how complex a component tyres actually are, the design, build, composition and compounds must suit the needs and wants of the car, roads, environments, weather and yourself.

 

Things must be different in Aus to UK as budget Chinese tyres you certainly don't buy for their handling and comfort most are rock hard ditchfinders and have crazed or cracked to MoT failure within a few years but have plenty of tread left despite how little or much mileage and use they've had.

 

You seem to be - as is the fashion for decades now and it's your choice so suits you and nothing wrong with that - concerned about the visual cosmetic of the tyre size but I think you've misunderstood the function side, the car weight is about the wheel diameter (and getting over the brakes) and at 1200kg that could have 14" wheels for weight.  Within a few size stages going wider doesn't generally give more grip or better handling in itself as you have found it's more about the tyre.

 

Over here it's generally accepted that higher tyre pressures can give better fuel economy (by lowering the rolling resistance of the tyre) but the handling and ride suffer a little, with my wife's 2015 Mk3 Fabia we tried the VWŠkoda 'Eco' tyres pressure setting which I didn't mind as the Fabia isn't the best handling chassis in the world anyway but my wife insisted the tyres were put back to standard pressure as she didn't like the ride or the handling (correct suitable tyre pressures are very important to the tyres, car, driver and passengers).

 

I've no idea what F1 tyres are unless they're the current version of the Goodyear Eagle F1 (165/80 r13) that I put on my (non-VW) Škoda Estelle 2 in the late 1980s (rear wheel drive, rear engine, 62(?)hp, 940kg - great fun) and those were great tyres on the car but I wore the tread down too quick for what I could afford at the time but they were great fun whilst on the car.

 

ETA: in the UK we've had 3rd-world condition roads since we had to bail out very wealthy bankers huge severance and pension packages after they dropped the country in the ****, 2008(?) (late 1980s roads were generally good condition)

 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by nta16
ETA:

@nta16 the Scala is definitely no sports car but can hold a corner. This week, I went to overtake a car on a v rough road. I’ve done that patch before. The rear tailed since the new front 215/45 tyres. It’s not as planted and rebounds on undulations. This never occurred before. The Scala is numb to drive by design but it does have excellent body control. No rebounding no matter the terrain until now. I can only place it to the new tyres. The Launch version I have is 15mm lower and has a pointless adaptive damper. My experience says the new tyres have upset the dynamics. Perhaps I’m more sensitive to it than most. I’m no fan of the low profile tyre trend, especially for Australian conditions and especially on non-performance cars like the Scala but I don’t work in VAG product team and there is no choice here. It’s 18” on every variant. Tyres are one of the most important safety items so to me, it’s crucial the setup is as optimised as it can be. It can make the difference between a very bad day or worse and I hope never to find out. Chinese tyres aren’t too bad at first but the rubber compounds degrade quickly, resulting in poor performance, especially wet. Yes it’s the Eagle F1 Sport. Only available in Australasia. Wasn't aware the Eagle heritage dates back to 80s.

My Scala doesn’t have a tyre placard. And yes I’ve checked the car. They missed applying it in production. Yes a compliance breach. I got the run around from Skoda and I gave up when the 5th person to email me asked if I was in Russia?

 

I still don’t know the pressure. I keep at 36psi. The tyre shop put them to 40psi. It seems high for such a light car.   

My Mini Cooper S Electric came on 205/45 R 17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport. 

Ridiculous tyres for use on a wet road, and for a cold wet road total ditchfinders. 

 

There are plenty Chinese manufactured tyres that perform better than OEM tyres fitted to VW group cars, Dunlop, Continental, Pirelli, Michelin etc etc. 

 

 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere 205 seems quite narrow for a 1.8 ton car. That should have a 245, especially since it’s aiming for performance but perhaps they went for claimed range. Maybe the supersport are different compound because the sport I have are excellent in the wet. The car is not fussed by slippery terrain. 

@Mikey_au 

Kerb Weight 1,400 kG.

XL Tyres. 

 

The thing is there is theory then practice and practical.

So now on 195,s and 16". 

Simply because there is location location location and the state of the roads driven. 

 

The New more powerful MINI,s from China (GWM,s)  are on 225/18" tyres. (1,600 kG kerb weight)

& wheel spinning on the ECO bias tyres and the Media Spin is the Wheel spin is there to give back the driving experience.

The usual guff really.  It is too much torque through front wheel drive tyres with crap tyres for the job, wide and sticky can be OK when dry or dry and warm, wide with All Season Treads can be, but narrower and with the tread and compound can work perfectly. 

 

205 / 17's All Seasons & now 195 / 16'S All Seasons.

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@Ootohere oh 1.3 ton is pretty good. I think Chinese manufactured and Chinese brand are two different things. I doubt there’s a Chinese brand that outperforms established brands. Giti is the Chinese brand OEM tyre for Chinese brand cars sold in Aus and they have poor reviews (the tyre not the car). My choice in Australia for the 205/45 18 is “LingLong” which doesn’t inspire any confidence. Terrible VAG sell the car in a market that doesn’t support its tyre.
 

I wish the Scala came with good looking 16… something like the Golf Mk 7. 
 

I thought BMW own and engineer the mini not GWM? 

3 minutes ago, Mikey_au said:

My choice in Australia for the 205/45 18 is “LingLong”

Well, in the UK these are AKA "YongTong Ditchfinders"

1 hour ago, Mikey_au said:

The Launch version I have is 15mm lower and has a pointless adaptive damper. My experience says the new tyres have upset the dynamics.

I'd no idea the Scala had active suspension that introduces more variable but I'd have thought the active suspension would dealt with more variations than just mechanical suspension.  The  15mm lower might mean less bounce room for rough roads so slightly "stiffer" set up give a "harsher" ride particularly on rough roads.

 

I'd not have expected the new tyres to make so much difference, difference perhaps yes.

 

Just noticed you've got a 2021 car, and you say a production label was miss of it, that makes me wonder about the active suspension but if it was good previously . . . 

 

I don't know if there are any Aus owners in the Scala forum but if you've not already done so you could have a look and/or ask there if there are any and ask them what pressure they run the tyres at on rough roads. - Škoda Scala - https://www.briskoda.net/forums/forum/384-škoda-scala/

 

I don't know if F1s go back further than the later 80s it was just the first time I could afford decent tyres, I didn't own a car from 1979 -1985 just pushbikes, and by no stretch of the imagination was the Škoda Estelle 2 130 a sportscar but it was a driver's car particularly if you wanted to drive it, much like most cars until about 20 years ago, and simply adding some good tyres and nothing else added more sparkle.  When the importer (Škoda UK?) got them into the UK they put on alloy wheels (never usually my choice I prefer steel) and different tyres anyway.

 

1200kg on-road car could be on 165 width tyres though you might want 185 for185lbsft (250 nm) but I can imagine modern car owners being in tears seeing their cars on 14" wheels with 185/80 r14 tyres, work clothes and shoes instead of party frocks and high heels. 😆

 

IIRC the Scala can have 16" wheels here, how good the alloys look I'd not know as I don't particularly like or dislike the look of alloy wheels, though some do look ugly to me but that's of no matter, I like steel wheels with chrome hub caps.

 

It'll be interesting to hear how you get on with your replacement tyres.

 

The Chinese manufacturers Goodride i fitted or the Serbian manufactured Tigar tyres (Michelin Owned) BUDGET tyres were a treat on the Fabia vRS with over 200 bhp / DSG compared to te OEM Dunlop Sport Maxx or Pirelli Zero Skoda fitted. 

& 215/40 R 17 as VW, SEAT & Audi fitted to the Sister Twincharger cars where as Skoda Fitted 205/40 R17,s.

 

 

 

 

I really feel I escaped a bullet!

I nearly bought a manual Scala when prices were really low in Aus pre-Covid but just could not arrange a test drive of a manual with my wife before everything shutdown.

The standard 205/45/18 tyre from a decent brand is almost 'unobtanium' rare here as @Mikey_au says, which is simply 'Not-Clever' on Skoda's part, well actually grossly STUPID and I'm not attracted to the idea of fitting Chinese Ditchfinders.

205/45/18 are standard for both the 1.0 and 1.5tsi and no other option. Looking at the British Skoda website they specify either 205/55/16 or 205/50/17 and I'd be tempted to convert to the latter because at least there are then a few more quality tyre options available here. Not a cheap exercise though.

 

Absolutely grasping at (low cost) straws, I'd try lower pressures around 32psi and see how that feels. I'd also jack up the car and let the front suspension droop so you can ensure the colourful transport blocks had been removed when first sold. This is rare but certainly not unknown.

 

I feel the OP is in an awkward fix not of his making although I remember a work colleague many years ago (pre-internet sourcing!) buying a 'special edition' Holden Commodore and when the tyres needed replacing was quoted about AU$2000 for a tyre size only available from overseas, and this from a local manufacturer (he literally lived 5km from the Holden factory).

 

 

It depends on your definition of "budget" but over here often that means low cost and low quality.  There's no doubt there are some good Chinese and Chinese made tyres but over here there can be so many different makes (or at least brand names) and some arrive and disappear very quickly from here, production and any info of them existing on the the internet.

 

205/55 r16 to me is a silly size on a family vehicle but I'm old.

 

Skoda Fabia Mk2 Monte Carlo 1.2 TSI 105ps in Australia were fitted with 205/55 R 16's 

but in the EU including the UK mostly 205/40 R 17's the same as the Mk2 vRS.  Someplaces in Europe that were not in the EU got the 16". 

Choosing the right tyre size is crucial for vehicle performance, especially when opting for all season tyres. These tyres are designed to perform well in various weather conditions, including rain and light snow. Proper tyre size ensures optimal contact with the road, enhancing traction and handling. All season tyres offer a balanced mix of summer and winter tyre features, but incorrect sizing can compromise their benefits. Oversized tyres may reduce fuel efficiency and cause clearance issues, while undersized tyres can affect stability and load capacity. Thus, selecting the appropriate tyre size is essential for maximizing the advantages of all season tyres.

@tyres123Welcome to the forum.

Maybe introduce yourself and tells us where you are, and if you are in the tyre trade.

Many here look to putting on the same size All Season tyres as the car comes with OEM unless they are ridiculous sized rims that make the tyre choice limited. 

 

Are you in the UK?

The linked site that has 'all season tyres'  very much then is about Winter or Summer,  All Weathers / All Seasons is a term used and Winter Tyres  / Snow tyres is something many on here are stopping using in the UK where they are not changing wheels and tyres for Winter. 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

@tyres123The linked website is US focused and has the below photo.

 

As you can see, in the US an all-season tyre is really just a three season tyre (not including winter) or summer tyre (that isn't an UHP Ultra High Performance summer tyre) because it's performance drops off rapidly below 7 degrees Centigrade (7 degrees Centigrade is about 45 degrees Fahrenheit), It doesn't have sipes in the tread for good traction in the snow, and the rubber hardens below 7 degrees Centigrade.

 

In Europe, for a tyre to be classed as all-season it needs to have the 3PMSF symbol (3 Peak Mountain SnowFlake) which means that it has passed a test for good traction in the snow.

 

The M&S marking is mainly used for marketing purposes to emphasize a chunky looking tread pattern perhaps to be fitted to a 4x4 pickup or SUV. To get the M&S marking a tyre doesn't have to pass any tests. However, you might expect to see the M&S marking if the tyre is an AT (All-Terrain) tyre. For a proper all-season tyre the M&S marking has been superseded by the 3PMSF symbol...at least in Europe.

 

There's an error in the below photo regarding sipes. A winter or all-season tyre with the 3PMSF symbol has additional sipes for improved traction in the snow. Additional sipes aren't there to increase wet traction. For example, the Uniroyal RainExpert 5 and Uniroyal RainSport 5 don't have additional sipes. 

 

https://tyresandwheel.com/all-weather-vs-winter-tires/

 

Uniroyal use their RainExpert 5 for 60 aspect ratio tyres and above and their RainSport 5 for 55 aspect ratio tyres and below. 

 

Uniroyal RainExpert 5 (excellent wet weather tyre without additional sipes)

 

Uniroyal RainSport 5 (excellent wet weather tyre without additional sipes)

 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by Carlston

40 minutes ago, Carlston said:

Sipes aren't there to increase wet traction.

I was told the exact opposite to that; sipes are there to increase the rate at which water is moved to the main circumferential grooves or out of the sides of the tread.

1 hour ago, Paws4Thot said:

I was told the exact opposite to that; sipes are there to increase the rate at which water is moved to the main circumferential grooves or out of the sides of the tread.

 

Summer tyres don't have additional sipes, so they can't need them or they would have them.

 

Vredestein Quatrac 5 all-season tyre with the 3PMSF symbol (note the additional sipes for increased traction in the snow...without them the tyre wouldn't have good traction in the snow and wouldn't have passed the 3PMSF test)

 

 

Edited 10 July, 20241 yr by Carlston

8 hours ago, nta16 said:

Spoiler

It depends on your definition of "budget" but over here often that means low cost and low quality. 

 

My definition of budget is a tyre which compromises performance new or quickly after purchase because of the compound. I do a fair amount of highway driving so if a kangaroo hops in front of me (which is not rare) I want the car to reliably stop as quickly as possible and allow me to manoeuvre if safe to do, so I don’t kill it. If it’s raining and I’m doing 80+kph on crappy B road and I see a new giant pot hole I want confidence I can swerve it instead of forced to drive it in with my teeth clenched and eyes squinted. If an idiot distracted driver cuts me off at 110+kph I want to know the car will hold of I turn out of lane quickly in any condition and not loose control.
 

 

4 hours ago, Mikey_au said:

My definition of budget is a tyre which compromises performance new or quickly after purchase because of the compound. I do a fair amount of highway driving so if a kangaroo hops in front of me (which is not rare) I want the car to reliably stop as quickly as possible and allow me to manoeuvre if safe to do, so I don’t kill it. If it’s raining and I’m doing 80+kph on crappy B road and I see a new giant pot hole I want confidence I can swerve it instead of forced to drive it in with my teeth clenched and eyes squinted. If an idiot distracted driver cuts me off at 110+kph I want to know the car will hold of I turn out of lane quickly in any condition and not loose control.
 

 

Which description makes me think of the already mentioned "YingTong Ditchfinder" or its relative the "Woosung Dark Horse". A mate of mine bought a Vauxhall Omega 3.0 (close relative of a Holden Commodore) with one Woosung on a rear corner. The first time he needed out of a tight turn with the tyre on the inside he accelerated and it it broke traction. Said tyre was ever after known as the "Woosung Dark Spin".