Newbie - Considering changing from a CTR to a Fabia VRs

[jam11]

Hi guys, this is my first post so please be kind.

Im really after some thoughts about what the title suggests really, i have had my CTR since May 2005 and have loved every minute of it, but doing 30 mile plus round trip 6 days a week plus fun driving, the petrol does get a little heavy at times.

I looking at changing to a much more eco friendly car on my wallet and the Fab is one of my fancies to fit the bill.

Im also considering the ibiza cupra 160 and the ibiza fr.

what are the running costs going to be compared to the CTR? if anyone has come from a CTR it would be nice to hear your views, also how fast (real world) are these VRs's? i have read and heard that they push out over the factory bhp figure and can give more powerful and expensive cars a run.

Would i really save that much on fuel considering diesel costs about 6p per litre more than petrol?

servicing costs / frequency....

reliablity....

topping up oil and which to use....

all of these above if anyone can answer them?

sorry for such a long post, but you dont get anywhere if you dont ask.

I know there is a search function, but i have tried and it cant get exactly what im after - a general comparision between the two cars.

cheers james

[tdirob]

Looking at your list of possibles, I wouldn't bother with an Ibiza Cupra if I were you, The FR is a great car and if you get it remapped you'll get similar performance without the sky high insurance group.

Having had a Ibiza TDI sport (old FR) and a Fabia, I'd recommend a Fabia over the SEAT. Very similar cars, but the fabia rides/handles better and seem to be put together slightly better

Its all down to personnal preference though. No doubt some of the others who have made the switch will be along in a minute to help convince you;)

[sharkrider]

Hi guys, this is my first post so please be kind.

Im really after some thoughts about what the title suggests really, i have had my CTR since May 2005 and have loved every minute of it, but doing 30 mile plus round trip 6 days a week plus fun driving, the petrol does get a little heavy at times.

I looking at changing to a much more eco friendly car on my wallet and the Fab is one of my fancies to fit the bill.

Im also considering the ibiza cupra 160 and the ibiza fr.

what are the running costs going to be compared to the CTR? if anyone has come from a CTR it would be nice to hear your views, also how fast (real world) are these VRs's? i have read and heard that they push out over the factory bhp figure and can give more powerful and expensive cars a run.

Would i really save that much on fuel considering diesel costs about 6p per litre more than petrol?

servicing costs / frequency....

reliablity....

topping up oil and which to use....

all of these above if anyone can answer them?

sorry for such a long post, but you dont get anywhere if you dont ask.

I know there is a search function, but i have tried and it cant get exactly what im after - a general comparision between the two cars.

cheers james

there are several members here who have switched from a CTR to a fabia vRS, I'm sure a few of them will comment before long!

I do 40k a year in mine, and average between 47 and 57 mpg (depending on driving) servicing is every 10k, an oild change (at a dealer, every other 10k) is about

[TommyC]

Jam, some facts and figures for you based on my change from a 2litre 16v calibra to a vRS.

For a 2 litre my calibra was surprisingly good on the motorway, returing around 40mpg but combined with town driving and a bit of fun on the twisties it dropped to 30.

On average i'd get 360-380 miles on a tankful (400 if i drove like a granny). An average fill up would be 55 litres....

55 / 4.546 = 12.098 gallons.

380 / 12.098 = 31.4 mpg.

(there's 4.546 litres to a gallon, i refuel aircraft at work so have to know this kind of stuff!!)

The fabia will do 360-380 miles on a til the fuel light comes on (and that horrible beep!!!). I usually end up filling up at 280-290 miles because of the motorway driving i do (you can't fill up on the hard shoulder now can you!!) so......

Average fill up at 290 miles is approx 26 litres.

26 / 4.546 = 5.719 gallons

290 / 5.719 = 50.7 mpg!!!

Or look at it annother way.....

55 litres x 86.9p = approx £48

35 litres x 92.9p = approx £32.50

......so the same 380 miles is costing me £15 less in the fabia than it did in the calibra on fuel alone..... Then add in road tax and insurance savings and you're onto a winner!!!!!

(Sorry for the boring maths lesson, but like i said i refuel aircraft on a daily basis and sometimes find it hard to leave work, at work :rolleyes: )

[adamC]

swapped from astra coupe 2.2 to vrs and to be honest wished i had done it sooner.

110 quid a year tax

costs me naf all to run currently getting 50+ mpg and average speed is town driving as live quite local to work.

insurance is far cheaper and even cheaper once remap'd than my coupe would be at same age.

on the whole i think its been the best thing i have evr done.

[jam11]

Jam, some facts and figures for you based on my change from a 2litre 16v calibra to a vRS.

For a 2 litre my calibra was surprisingly good on the motorway, returing around 40mpg but combined with town driving and a bit of fun on the twisties it dropped to 30.

On average i'd get 360-380 miles on a tankful (400 if i drove like a granny). An average fill up would be 55 litres....

55 / 4.546 = 12.098 gallons.

380 / 12.098 = 31.4 mpg.

(there's 4.546 litres to a gallon, i refuel aircraft at work so have to know this kind of stuff!!)

The fabia will do 360-380 miles on a til the fuel light comes on (and that horrible beep!!!). I usually end up filling up at 280-290 miles because of the motorway driving i do (you can't fill up on the hard shoulder now can you!!) so......

Average fill up at 290 miles is approx 26 litres.

26 / 4.546 = 5.719 gallons

290 / 5.719 = 50.7 mpg!!!

Or look at it annother way.....

55 litres x 86.9p = approx £48

35 litres x 92.9p = approx £32.50

......so the same 380 miles is costing me £15 less in the fabia than it did in the calibra on fuel alone..... Then add in road tax and insurance savings and you're onto a winner!!!!!

(Sorry for the boring maths lesson, but like i said i refuel aircraft on a daily basis and sometimes find it hard to leave work, at work :rolleyes: )

Cheers guys for all your replies so far, very helpful indeed.

well to get 31 mpg i would have to drive like a granny most of the time so hence the average of around the 27 mark, my ideal scenario would be to put £10 in to my civics £15 and get the same amount of miles from it, saving me every week £10, (i normally get thru about £30-£35 worth each week)

im just weighing up the lose i would take come trade in and do the maths just seeing if its worth it all.

but keep all the info coming guys, its proving a great help indeed

[TommyC]

The fabia is a lot easier to drive like a granny too (when you're counting the pennies) because you an get away with changing up through the gears sooner thanks to all that torque!!!

I haven't sold my calibra yet, (still need to clean, polish and hoover it before i start advertising) but i gave it a run round the block the other day, felt slow and heavy compared to the vRS. I used to think it was quick, but it's not a patch on the "in gear" acceleration the vRS is capable of (thats not to say it's massivley faster, just very different).

I understand the situation you're in mate, it took me nearly 3 years to finally bite the bullet. I was trying to save up, but life kept getting in the way. So in the end i got a loan. I'm well impressed with it and although the loan kinda makes a false economy of all this mpg and cheap road tax talk, i'm glad i bought it!!

Good luck with making your mind up mate :)

[.Craig.]

Financially there will be no contest. The fabia will be far cheaper to run. The driving experience will be far different to the type R though so it is best that you test drive a Vrs pronto to see if you prefer grunt to revs.

[TommyC]

That's one thing you'll have to get used to...... changing up at 3k to keep it in the "grunt" band!!!!

[WaveyDavey]

Jam, some facts and figures for you based on my change from a 2litre 16v calibra to a vRS.

For a 2 litre my calibra was surprisingly good on the motorway, returing around 40mpg but combined with town driving and a bit of fun on the twisties it dropped to 30.

On average i'd get 360-380 miles on a tankful (400 if i drove like a granny). An average fill up would be 55 litres....

55 / 4.546 = 12.098 gallons.

380 / 12.098 = 31.4 mpg.

(there's 4.546 litres to a gallon, i refuel aircraft at work so have to know this kind of stuff!!)

The fabia will do 360-380 miles on a til the fuel light comes on (and that horrible beep!!!). I usually end up filling up at 280-290 miles because of the motorway driving i do (you can't fill up on the hard shoulder now can you!!) so......

Average fill up at 290 miles is approx 26 litres.

26 / 4.546 = 5.719 gallons

290 / 5.719 = 50.7 mpg!!!

Or look at it annother way.....

55 litres x 86.9p = approx £48

35 litres x 92.9p = approx £32.50

......so the same 380 miles is costing me £15 less in the fabia than it did in the calibra on fuel alone..... Then add in road tax and insurance savings and you're onto a winner!!!!!

(Sorry for the boring maths lesson, but like i said i refuel aircraft on a daily basis and sometimes find it hard to leave work, at work :rolleyes: )

I drive just under 50 miles a day to get to work and back and it's all motorway driving......... I average around 80mph all the way and get around 500-550 miles out of a tank in my Furby vRS!!!!! You must have an extremely heavy foot..... Or your not filling up the expansion tank..... Which looking at the amount of diesel your putting in you aren't doing..... You get an extra couple of gallons in if you use the expansion tank which means at least an extra 100 miles. I filled mine up on Sunday AM and have done around 330 miles in think..... The car says i've got another 245 miles-ish till empty.

We also have a CTR and driving the same way i get around 270 miles out of a tank.... Both cost around the same to fill up too.

Cheers

Dave

[ScoobyChris]

That's one thing you'll have to get used to...... changing up at 3k to keep it in the "grunt" band!!!!

3k?!?! Taking it up to 4k works much better

Chris

[TommyC]

Expansion tank?????????????

Whenever i fill up the trip computer rekons i'll get around 450 miles on a tankfull and the needle always shows full (i know this mileage thing is only an estimate, calculated by the computer). When drove it til the fuel light came on, i filled it up as much as i could, right up the filler neck til the pump wouldn't deliver any more......

The only car i've ever heard of having anything like an expansion tank was my mates 1968 Triumph Herald 13/60 which had a "reserve" tank on it......

So what exactly is this expansion tank and how do you fill it?? Didn't see anything in the owners manual about it.......

[TommyC]

3k?!?! Taking it up to 4k works much better

Chris

Mine seems to go off the boil at 3500, so i change up at 3000..... plus i'm starting to get very lazy with the throttle cos there's 6 gears to get through!!!

[devonutopia]

Expansion tank?????????????

So what exactly is this expansion tank and how do you fill it?? Didn't see anything in the owners manual about it.......

When it clicks first time, move fuel nozzle against the 3 o'clock / 2 o'clock position in the cap, and you'll hear it push a button, heard as a wooshing sound. This is it releasing the air. Allows an extra 4 litres or so, but not recommended in the summer.

[WaveyDavey]

Expansion tank?????????????

Whenever i fill up the trip computer rekons i'll get around 450 miles on a tankfull and the needle always shows full (i know this mileage thing is only an estimate, calculated by the computer). When drove it til the fuel light came on, i filled it up as much as i could, right up the filler neck til the pump wouldn't deliver any more......

The only car i've ever heard of having anything like an expansion tank was my mates 1968 Triumph Herald 13/60 which had a "reserve" tank on it......

So what exactly is this expansion tank and how do you fill it?? Didn't see anything in the owners manual about it.......

If you take a look to the right of your filler hole you'll see a little spring loaded switch. Once you fill the tank as usual use the petrol pump gun to push this button in and keep it there then keep fillin' till you reach the brim again...... Hey presto a new range of over 500 miles in your Furby vRS. My fuel gauge usually shows as full till i've done at least 180-190 miles. when using this technique.

There is a topic on here somewhere..... Some remove the spring to save the hassle when filling up. It's a mod that a lot of people do on here and also with other VAG diesels....

Cheers

Dave.

[WaveyDavey]

Just found the thread i was talking about in my previous post..........................................

Click Here

Cheers

Dave.

[TommyC]

So basically you're best off only brimming it if you're about to hit the motorway (especially in the summer) because you leave yourself with no space for fuel expansion at all.

I know Bas was saying the expansion is negligable but when i was in Bahrain with work, our aircraft kept venting fuel in the mornings before going flying. Ours run on AVTUR (AViation gas TURbine fuel - which is almost chemically identical to diesel!! You can run old N/A diesels on it and some older Tdi's but i wouldn't dare try it in a PD equipped car). But having said that, the smallest wing tank holds 6500 litres, so i suppose the expansion across that kind of volume isn't that negligable!!!!

I'll try the 3 o'clock pump nozzle method first, before i start taking bits off the car. Lets see what kind of tank range i can get now......

[Stevoraith]

Back on topic!

From a quick calculation you say you use about £35 a week of fuel in the CTR and get about 27mpg.

From this I calculate that you do just short of 250 miles a week.

With a Fabia doing 45mpg (you will get at least this) then it should cost you about £22 a week in fuel.

You say you would like the Fabia to do the same milage on £10 as your CTR does on £15- it will, and maybe even a bit better!

As someone else said, the vRS a very different driving experience from the CTR. My best mate has a 230bhp CTR and was seriously considering swapping to a vRS as he was that impressed with ours, but I'd drive one to see what you think.

Me? I love the low down shove and hate the v-tec power delivery but you may be the opposite.

[TommyC]

Oops..... sorry for topic-napping!!!

[jam11]

Back on topic!

From a quick calculation you say you use about

[chris_newell41]

also if you are like me the girlfriend used to hate it when I revved the engine on my last car (she thoughts loads of revs = fast) so now I can drive fast in my VRS and she hasn't got a clue...... as its revving at 3000rpm!

i am yet to try the expansion tank and my best run is 470miles to the tank, although i reckon it should increase on 5000 miles on clock

[jam11]

do you notice to drop in performance? those of you that have had a quick car like the ctr? mine is running around 220 bhp, but you only feel that when you hit vtec, other than that zone its just nippy which does my head in as i can only access the potention about 30% of the time.

vtec in 1st is useless 90% of the time, vtec in 2nd is superb, vtec in 3rd and im up to 80+ mph so can only use that very little.

something thats quick 10-90mph would suit me well, also something that isnt going to drink fuel like a fish wen i press that happy pedal

[sharkrider]

do you notice to drop in performance? those of you that have had a quick car like the ctr? mine is running around 220 bhp, but you only feel that when you hit vtec, other than that zone its just nippy which does my head in as i can only access the potention about 30% of the time.

vtec in 1st is useless 90% of the time, vtec in 2nd is superb, vtec in 3rd and im up to 80+ mph so can only use that very little.

something thats quick 10-90mph would suit me well, also something that isnt going to drink fuel like a fish wen i press that happy pedal

because of what you mention above, even though the CTR is a faster car than the vRS, I've often caught CTR drivers napping, and passed them before they have found the right gear! lol.... the vRS is so easy to drive fast as the torque gives a good shove in any gear (above 2000rpm) ... if you decide to buy, I'd advise you drive the vRS in one gear higher than you would in a 'normal' fast hatch for any given situation, then you'll start to 'get' its responses....

[Springveldt]

do you notice to drop in performance? those of you that have had a quick car like the ctr? mine is running around 220 bhp, but you only feel that when you hit vtec, other than that zone its just nippy which does my head in as i can only access the potention about 30% of the time.

vtec in 1st is useless 90% of the time, vtec in 2nd is superb, vtec in 3rd and im up to 80+ mph so can only use that very little.

something thats quick 10-90mph would suit me well, also something that isnt going to drink fuel like a fish wen i press that happy pedal

I'd imagine even if you remap a vRS there will be a drop off in performance compared to the CTR from 30-90 but not as much as you would think.

I've been in a remapped vRS that beat a Mini Cooper S from a standing start to 70mph by a couple of car lengths. The same vRS stuck like glue to the back of a Clio Sport from 30-80 as well.

I know the Mini Cooper S was trying (I work with the guy ) but couldn't say for sure about the Clio.

[lfc958]

Another comment from the owners who have defected from CTR's and Scoobys to the little furby Vrs, is , in order to maintain the urgency, the petorl engine noise can become tiresome, having to keep the high revs in order to keep the power in over medium to long periods.