mk2 2.0 petrol focus or the 2.0 diesel variant.

suzuki ignis sport.

suzuki swift sport.

new mini 1.6.

all quicker on paper and insurance group 9

Yes quicker on paper, but in real situations all these cars wouldnt have a chance even a mini cooper gets a beating so the standard 1,6 mini one wouldnt have a prayer;)

Yes quicker on paper, but in real situations all these cars wouldnt have a chance even a mini cooper gets a beating so the standard 1,6 mini one wouldnt have a prayer;)

Depends what you call "real world" To me thats a blast round wales

In which case my moneys on the Focus, ignis and swift. Think the one would be underpowered.

Really tempered with a nice ignis sport + cam +remap.

But in the real-world, the driver makes the most difference so the car's stats are largely irrelevant. For example, I was out in a Jabba'd Fabia vRS yesterday and we got overtaken (uphill!) by a Fiesta ST. Discuss.....

Chris

I was out in a Jabba'd Fabia vRS yesterday and we got overtaken (uphill!) by a Fiesta ST. Discuss.....

Chris

:sofahide:

But in the real-world, the driver makes the most difference so the car's stats are largely irrelevant. For example, I was out in a Jabba'd Fabia vRS yesterday and we got overtaken (uphill!) by a Fiesta ST. Discuss.....

Chris

A Fabia with an average map of 170hp vs a car with 150 hp.. 200kg lighter. I would say the ST is the Quicker car.

Fabia power to weight 1000/1315*170=129.3bhp

Fiesta power to weight 1000/1137*150 = 131.9bhp

Fabia power to weight 1000/1315*170=129.3bhp

Fiesta power to weight 1000/1137*150 = 131.9bhp

So based on that. With the two equally good drivers. They are around the same although the ST being slightly nippier. And also with the Fiesta ST, having more life over 100.

Even uphill and in the real-world? The road wasn't even twisty!

Chris

Maybe he was pushing hard and you weren't?

fiesta st arent that great... only a little bit quicker than the zetec, considering the fabia is diesel and has great torque i think that it would beat the ST even in standard guise.... but especially a chipped furby!

Maybe he was pushing hard and you weren't?

I wasn't pushing at all - I was in the passenger seat Both cars were being driven at pace

Chris

Maybe he was pushing hard and you weren't?

Was he driving :confused:

You put on weight Chris?

So based on that. With the two equally good drivers. They are around the same although the ST being slightly nippier. And also with the Fiesta ST, having more life over 100.

Need to take into account gear ratio's as well.

I'm surprised if the Fiesta ST is quicker up a hill, but it's a lot quicker than a Zetec, more torque and plenty more bhp.

Returning to the original topic, I personally think it's fruitless having 450lb of torque in any FWD car. I doubt there is any Fabia on this planet that would hit 60mph in the time it takes for a completely boggo standard Lotus Elise to do it.

I speak from experience too, having had a car with FWD, 290bhp/310lb torque and Quaife LSD and all sorts of other mods to try to tame the front wheels. It might be fun to have that in-gear acceleration, but it's also annoying when you get thrashed off the lights by virtually anything that is rear or 4 wheel driven.

Jez

I'm surprised if the Fiesta ST is quicker up a hill, but it's a lot quicker than a Zetec, more torque and plenty more bhp.

Returning to the original topic, I personally think it's fruitless having 450lb of torque in any FWD car. I doubt there is any Fabia on this planet that would hit 60mph in the time it takes for a completely boggo standard Lotus Elise to do it.

I speak from experience too, having had a car with FWD, 290bhp/310lb torque and Quaife LSD and all sorts of other mods to try to tame the front wheels. It might be fun to have that in-gear acceleration, but it's also annoying when you get thrashed off the lights by virtually anything that is rear or 4 wheel driven.

Jez

It seems to be good enought for me, i have done 1.9 to 60 foot which is tuned scooby teratory!!!!!!

Sorry, Luke, you've got me with the 1.9 to 60 foot bit!

I'm not saying that much grunt isn't fun, I'm sure it is. I'd just invest it in a different car which does not have FWD so you can actually really take advantage of it. To me, anything over 300bhp or 300lb in a FWD car is a bit on the pointless side and you invariably loose bottom end / mid range if you start using big turbos.

Jez

Yes quicker on paper, but in real situations all these cars wouldnt have a chance even a mini cooper gets a beating so the standard 1,6 mini one wouldnt have a prayer;)

i've been hassled like mad by a an mx-5 on my way to work in the past, yet at the end of the very nice twisty section of road we he miles behind. is a 1.8 focus quicker than an mx-5? no. does it handle better? no. did he drive that road every day and know that you don't need slow down at all (other than for traffic) the whole length of that NSL road? apparently not

is a 1.8 focus quicker than an mx-5? QUOTE]

Classic case of driver skill or lack of it as the MX5 handles brilliantly. Having said that, the Focus ain't bad either!

Classic case of driver skill or lack of it as the MX5 handles brilliantly. Having said that, the Focus ain't bad either!

Not necessarily a case of driver skill - could well be a case of the faster driver being oblivious to risks/hazards, or they have bigger balls!

Chris

Not necessarily a case of driver skill - could well be a case of the faster driver being oblivious to risks/hazards, or they have bigger balls!

Chris

Very true.

Not necessarily a case of driver skill - could well be a case of the faster driver being oblivious to risks/hazards, or they have bigger balls!

Chris

certainly wasn't down to driver skill more down to local knowledge :P

LOL well it makes scence really when you think about it!!! how could 197bhp beat 247bhp and loads of torque???

Not even the ability to rev on further is going to make up for the weight dis-advantage 40bhp and about 140lbft of torque that the golf is down on!!!! (if it was in standard form)

Luke - thats 50bhp :-) difference.

and what makes you worth listening to any more than him? :confused:

you need to chill.

Agree with red baron, Decron a tad strange:rofl: