Hi all,

I am looking for some information on a good set of tyres for my RS. I use to have ContiSportContacts and now I have Goodyear Eagle F1s which I am not too happy with (too twitchy and lack of grip). I am thinking of swapping them for Michelin Pilot Sports any thought especially from Jon who likes burning tyres for a living!!!

Thanks

LLB

Autocar reckon that Pirelli Neros are the dogs; I think Jon is agreement with this.

Compared them with the Conti SPC1 as the SP2s weren't available at the time. Anyway the Contis were better for wear and fuel economy whilst the Pirellis better on performance related matters (grip etc).

Cheers.

Adrian.

P Zero Nero! :D :D

I have a theory, which I have discussed at length with someone who was stupid enough to listen, so here goes:

It all comes down to directional v asymetric. I have tried both and in my opinion the assymetric (well one the 2 ways I've spelt it must be right ) ones are my preference. I found that the initial turn in is much sharper with the directionals, almost twitchy in fact, but that ultimate cornering grip is better form the assyms. I also feel that the wet weather handling is better and they seem to clear the water better. I think its due to the tread pattern ie wide snipes and a smoother, less grooved outside edge.

I have tried various tyres, I've posted my opinions before on them and to save you the hassle I've shamelessly cut and pasted them below:

Conti SportContact 2: A nice allround tyre, not bad in the dry, if a bit squeally. Very good in the wet with nice progressive breakaway and very good traction. Seems to go off a bit once below 4mm of tread. I put that down to it being German and their min tread depth is 3.5mm IIRC. Good ride quality and not that noisy. 91W is the better of the 2 load ratings available in this size (think the other is W).

P Zero Nero: :mrgreen: Seems to be as rare as rocking horse droppings! Excellent in the dry and very good in the wet. Very, very stiff sidewalls that give awesome turn in. Grip right down to the canvas (witness Alconbury in the wet!). The downside to this excellent tyre is that it is noisy and is quite harsh over road "rash".

Yokohama AVS: Not that impressed with this tyre, but it was cheap. Lasts incredibly well, predictable limits and fairly progressive, but the limits aren't as high as the others. Needs to get warm to perform, so at this time of year not the ideal tyre.

Conti SportContact (had this in 205/50 17): I liked this tyre, lasted well and was very, very similar to the SportContact2, but not quite as good in the wet. Better ride quality, probably due to the profile.

Toyo Proxes: Not a great fan of this tyre (I know, I know, other swear by them, but I don't like them). In my opinion their level of grip and traction is not as high as the Contis and the Neros and this is reflected in their price. Nice predictable handling though.

As for where to buy them, highly recommend Protyre who have Neros in stock (I think they bought the UK supply of 225/45s ) or if you fancy on-line for better prices try these people. You'll get charged about

Thanks Jon,

Looks like its P Zero Nero for me........

TaviaRS said:

well one of the 2 ways I've spelt it must be right

Sorry, Jon, but there is a third way which just happens to be the correct spelling - asymmetry.

(Multi-engine pilots have to know all about asymmetric flying. Get it wrong when an engine fails and you can end up dead very quickly.)

Time to go hunting for snakes........

While we're on the subject of tyres, I'm going to assume (oops dangerous!) that you are talking of replacing all four tyres. The question is if you were going to replace just two tyres would you put them on the front or the rear:confused:

Myself, I would always put new tyres to the front, you know where they do all the work - drive- steer - brake. I know a good many people who would do the same. In the past I've been advised to do that by tyre fitters. However, in a road safety class recently I was challenged to consider putting new tyres on the rear and I understand this is a piece of advice you may well get when having new tyres fitted these days.

One factor that may influence when and which tyres are replaced is whether or not you rotate them front<->rear to even out the wear and so replace all four rather than 2 at a time.

Anyone got strong views one way or the other?

Paul

I asked a similar question recently on here and some kind soul - (sorry can't remember who:rolleyes: ) pointed out a website which makes that recommendation - due to the fact that it is safer to have your front end break away than the back (oo-er missus!) i.e. put the new ones on the back.

Those lovely lads at Kwik Fit :( had replaced the two passenger side tyres and put the new ones on the same side instead of swapping them to either the front or rear - a quick visit to Briskoda and Kwik Fit re-fitted them pretty kwik!! (it was amusing to have the entire staff of the garage out looking at the car - first time it has had that level of attention. One guy was having a real good nosey and was just about to walk away when he realised that it was a skoda! I think he was a little suprprised......)

Originally posted by ross

I asked a similar question recently on here and some kind soul - (sorry can't remember who:rolleyes: ) pointed out a website which makes that recommendation - due to the fact that it is safer to have your front end break away than the back (oo-er missus!) i.e. put the new ones on the back.

Sorry Ross missed your earlier question but the logic given to me is the same as you explained. As for Kwik Fit putting two new tyres on the same side, well I've had my own experiences of them and nothing they do would surprise me:mad: I just hope I keep my own promise never to use them again.

Paul

I know what you mean - I vowed never to use them for my own car (Rover 200) again, but then found out that the company car scheme has a contract with them, so the Skoda has to go there for tyres etc - oh well, it's not coming out of my pocket I suppose....

I find it very hard to believe that it is safer to have the front end break away than the back. The front end determines which way the car is heading. If the back end breaks away you can usually correct it by steering or throttle application. If the front end breaks away there may be nothing you can do until you are forcibly slowed down by an external agency - i.e. hit something! I know which end I prefer glued to the road....

Someone please correct me if there's a good explanation for the "front end is less critical" opinion.

et us know how you get on with them

A question of a similar vein was asked in Autocar recently (can't remember the exact question, I'll have to dig it out later) - in the majority of cases understeer is safer as not many people know what to do in the event of oversteer.

How many people would know that in a front wheel drive car in the event of oversteer you're actually supposed to floor the throttle (I read this somewhere). To the majority this is totally alien.

But understeer in a front wheel drive car you would just reduce the throttle (unless you're in a Peugeot 205 and then that would probably give you lift off oversteer, allegedly).

I haven't experience oversteer in a front wheel car but I'm sure Jon will comment whether or not what i have read is true or not.

Understeer I imagine pretty much everyone has experienced at some point.

Anyway I have always put new tyres on the front for no other reason that they were the ones that needed replacing.

Cheers.

Adrian.

OK, the gospel according to Pielli:

New Tyres to the Rear

An analysis of technical enquiries received through the Pirelli Technical "Hot Line" has confirmed the belief that many customers - dealers and users alike - are of the opinion that, when only two tyres are replaced on a car, they should be fitted to the front "axle". This was undoubtedly the case a number of years ago when it was felt that the retention of vehicle control was more critical with front wheel deflations and, therefore, that the new, and thus less vulnerable tyres should be fitted to the front.

However, the current recommendation on the part of the tyre Industry is, as a general rule, New Tyres to The Rear. This applies to both front and rear wheel drive cars.

Primarily, the justification is increased safety, particularly in the wet, where it has been demonstrated that, with the partly worn tyres fitted to the rear, their diminished water dispersal capability leads to a greater tendency towards oversteer and thus loss of control. Similarly, straight line braking, in the wet can be adversely affected.

It is also arguable that used tyres are more prone to punctures and since it has now been established that rear deflations are more likely to cause loss of control, this is another reason for fitting new tyres to the rear.

As a secondary benefit for the owners of low mileage front wheel drive cars, the switching of the partly worn rear tyres to the front, enabling the new tyres to be fitted to the rear, creates a cycle which helps prevent their deterioration due to ageing/prolonged exposure. The rear tyres wear relatively slowly and leaving them in their original positions for a prolonged period can result in the need to replace them before they are significantly worn.

Note: There are certain circumstances where the principle of New Tyres to the Rear does not or may not apply. For example:

where the front and rear tyre sizes are different.

where the two new tyres are of a lower speed rating.

where the characteristic rear concave wear pattern has developed to an extent that moving rear tyres to the front would affect the stability of the car.

where the PZero System (directional tyre at the front, asymmetric at the rear) is adopted.

with certain combinations of winter and summer tyres.

on certain four wheel drive vehicles where it would result in significant differences in tread depth.

from http://www.pirelli.co.uk/en_GB/tyres/car_suv/utility_services/tech/tech4_gb.jhtml

I might be missing something here but...

Wouldn't a worn tyre give you more grip? Assuming it's dry

so you're not going to aquaplane, that is.

A worn tyre will probably have more rubber in contact with the

road, due to the tyre wearing while running on the road. More

contact means more grip, ie. more like slicks. So wouldn't it

make sense to but these on the back to reduce the risk of

oversteer, etc. :confused:

OK, so it would mean changing the tyres back round if it

rained to make sure you'd get the best grip on the rear, but

it's a small price to pay for being safe... :p

Rob.

I assume the tyre manufacturers (well Pirelli anyway) are catering for the majority of drivers who are unlikely to explore the limits of their cars' adhesion in the dry but could be caught out in the wet - hence are favouring wet grip over dry.

YMMV

TaviaRS

Thanks for taking the trouble to search out this info, this is exactly how it was explained to me, though at this point I will now add that the road safety class to which I reffered took place in America where I have lived for most of the past three and a half years. That is why I put the question forward to "test the water" so to speak, on this side of the pond. It seems this message is now being broadcast on an almost global stage, so there must be something in it. When I first heard this logic I found it difficult to accept, given that I had always been a - new ones on the front person - But I saw some convincing demostrations of how 'sliding tyres always lead' which support this case.

Paul

Originally posted by ncarring

unlikely to explore the limits of their cars' adhesion in the dry but could be caught out in the wet

Hmm...well, I try to do it at both times...I tend to buy my tyres

in fours though for some reason...

Rob.

I second that - thanks for the explanation. I think with my own car's current lack of grip at both ends, even with newish (albeit cheap and nasty) tyres, I will still be replacing the fronts first. If I can afford to do all 4 at the same time, then I will do so.

Originally posted by spc

TaviaRS

But I saw some convincing demostrations of how 'sliding tyres always lead' which support this case.

Paul

Were these demonstrations carried out in a FWD car?

I know the advice, but ignore it totally.

I put new \ better tyres on the front, if I'm going to have a lower level of grip somewhere then I might as well exploit \ enjoy it!

I have to say that the demo's were done with front and rear wheel drive with very similar results. Once adhesion on the rear tyres was broken (by whatever means -braking-aquaplaning-cornering limits) , then around came the front end! Another part of the discussion is that once the tyres have lost their grip and start sliding they off less resistance than than a rotating, (possibly braked), wheel: so the rotating wheel will always trail the sliding wheel!

I found American drivers were very focused on 'rotating' their tires and so were far more likely to replace all 4. I think lower prices might also have had something to do with it!

Paul

Wouldn't the American point of view of tyre traction revolve

around straight line performance rather than cornering

ability?

They seem to have a similar attitude to the frequency of changing

oil too - some of them do it every 3000 miles! Like Paul says

though, cost is probably a major factor in this...

Rob.

Havnt anyone tryed "R" tyres on there skoda?

Like Yoko A048R, Bridgestone RE540S and Toyo Trampio R888..

I know one here in sweden thats going to have A048R's on his 18" superleggeras this summer, thats going to be a mean machine.. this is his planning mods..

:drive:

Tyre wise I have some P Zero Corsas and some Kumho Ecsta V700s, which are like the "r" tyres.

Playing spot the parts,

KW variant 3

Brembo 4 pots

Braided hoses

FMIC (which one? will it fit?)

Grp N grooved discs

Yours? Looks good!

Originally posted by TaviaRS

Tyre wise I have some P Zero Corsas and some Kumho Ecsta V700s, which are like the "r" tyres.

Playing spot the parts,

KW variant 3

Brembo 4 pots

Braided hoses

FMIC (which one? will it fit?)

Grp N grooved discs

Yours? Looks good!

Mine? I WISH! (a friend)

KW var 3 inox. (inc. KW sway bars)

Brembo 322 mm front brake kit

Saab 9-5 Aero intercooler (custom piping)

BMC CDA-Box

more to come is stiffer bushings all around.

this guy is a traction/handling freak. :p