Going back to the OP my local group have taken on the phrase "Its cool to be skillful" which in itself is enough to make your teeth curl, really is cringeworthy.

yeap "we will over take no matter what it takes"

I hope he didn't really say that! :eek:

Any more for any more? Roll up ....!

I hope he didn't really say that! :eek:

The quote is taken a bit out of context What I actually said was something like "if one was committed to an overtake and one could see it was clear and safe to do so, one might consider minimising the time exposed to danger by utilising the available power in the car"

Chris

yes it was out of context, it was much safer than that... it made alot of text book gooblygook come into place and much better than a dvd.

There's a good example of this on the Roadcraft video. Imagine you are waiting at a t-junction (signalling right). A car is approaching from your left with his left indicator on. Is that signal of benefit to you? He's slowing down and he's seen you - is it safe to go?

No. As it turns out he's not turning at all and he's signalling to pull up to the kerb just after he's passed you. In that case he was "just signalling" and not thinking about how it is being interpreted and that could have led to an accident.

But that's because

(a) he was indicating incorrectly

( the "you" in the example did not assess the situation correctly

Correct signalling would have been (as others have said) to indicate as he was passing the junction. This seems a poor example to be honest - you're saying that you shouldn't indicate because if you indicate incorrectly it'll mislead people. The truth is that you should indicate correctly. Which is, I'll concede, the overall gist of your post.

:iagree: - in fact, the best thing to do in these circumstances might well be to give a slowing down arm signal if and only if there is other motor traffic on the major route to benefit from it, and otherwise delay the indicator as specified.

Also, if I were using the side route in this situation, I might re-enforce the indicator with a "signal to person directing traffic".

I have just joined RoSPA rather than IAM as I liked the idea of their grading system and being able to work my way up to the gold standard and be equal to the Police class 1 drivers.

I am 30 (not sure if that is young in this context or not) and acknowledge that what I will be taught may not be how to get from A to B in the shortest possible time, something which the younger driver may be looking for?

I view it that it will make me a much better driver (EVERYONE has something to learn) and I can then use my judgement as to what speed I want to drive at, but with the knowledge that I have the advanced skills.

My drive to work is on fast flowing Wiltshire A roads and I enjoy 'making progress' where safe to do so. I am resigned to the fact that this is the time I will need to practice what I am being taught in order to pass and this will probably shift the emphasis from vRS workout to M005 brain workout

As for image, not too bothered, I won't be going to any / many of the meetings as my Wife is out on a Monday evening and I'm on babysitting duties.

That aside, as mentioned above, I see it as a way to improve my skill and advance my driving, and will chose what and when I apply what I have been taught in the future, as I think most advanced drivers do.

I'm not sure that RoSPA Gold is equivalent to a PC1, but it's certainly an achievement If you want to have a taster of what it's all about PM Nick (ncarring) as he recently achieved RoSPA Gold and is in Wilts too....

Chris

So if I turned up to a meet or course, would i be better taking the Disco which is an auto, or the Fabia which is a manual?

For practising driving skills, the Fabia. The observation and planning is part of driving any vehicle, so either.

M005 - which group are you with?

I'm late to this thread, but my 2p:

I'd be interested to learn techniques to improve my hazard awareness etc - although as someone who really enjoys and concentrates on his driving my awareness is generally pretty good...

However if I'm to be told how to hold the steering wheel then that would be a right put-off.

And on the indicating thing - the original point IIRC was not to indicate if no-one would benefit i.e. you can't see anyone to indicate 'to'. My question would be "what about the car/bike/pedestrian you didn't see?".

Of course if the point is about ambiguous rather than superfluous indication then that's different.

Chris is an expert on steering wheel grip :P

As long as you hold it in a way that gives you good control, there's no problem.

You're quite right about the indicating - it did start as a discussion on superfluous indication. The trouble is as you say that you may miss someone who comes into view after you've decided not to. One could argue that's all about planning ahead, though.

However if I'm to be told how to hold the steering wheel then that would be a right put-off.

As I always say, the whole point about advanced driving is that you're constantly thinking and questioning. Some observers like rules and regulations, I like end results and creating an individual every-day style.

As an aside, if your steering/steering hold is crap and not getting the results then I will tell you and I'll suggest grips/techniques to try and help you improve it. You're more than welcome to put your case forwards and I'll always back up any comments I make with reasons so hopefully that wouldn't put you off

And :P Mr Carrington!

Chris

My 2p worth

I considered IAM many years ago - never got around to it but did get some books from the library and swotted up some.

Good of Chris to clarify many issues and raise awareness.

Two things (specifically) I picked up on were to look at reflections in shop windows and to look at the ground beneath cars when it was raining to spot cars braking.

Me :eek: :-

I virtually always drive with the windows open (except over 70mph on motorways, terrible sleeting slanting rain)- to help me hear other traffic nearby, to hear of glass and stones etc in tyres, to hear if they are 'flapping' (should I not feel it through the wheel etc), to hear sirens.

Indicators - so many people do not use them - my daughter told me she was told by the Driving Instructor not to use them if no one would benefit, and I'm sure this is the cause as so few people do not 'observe' and have this rule fixed in their heads.

I use them virtually all the time - should I have been remiss in not spotting someone, should a cyclist not be using lights etc etc.

For turning left into a T- junction from the 'right of way' I often 'reinforce' the indicator by using a hand signal so that the person waiting to exit the T-junction is in no doubt.

And, the whole 'thing' with driving is there is something new you will learn nearly every day :eek:

Chris is an expert on steering wheel grip :P

As long as you hold it in a way that gives you good control, there's no problem.

You're quite right about the indicating - it did start as a discussion on superfluous indication. The trouble is as you say that you may miss someone who comes into view after you've decided not to. One could argue that's all about planning ahead, though.

Indeed. As one of my pet hates is other people who fail to indicate, particularly on roundabouts, I always try to remember to, even if it seems obvious where I'm going.

When it comes to grip, I'm always changing mine, but predominantly I drive 1 or 1 1/2 handed (left hand used merely to steady the bottom of the wheel). This is probably extremely bad

When it comes to grip, I'm always changing mine, but predominantly I drive 1 or 1 1/2 handed (left hand used merely to steady the bottom of the wheel). This is probably extremely bad

It's more effort to make one hand control a steering wheel than two...so you're just going to increase fatigue on your arm.

That and you can generally get a more consistent rotation speed with two hands (making for smoother cornering), and if you need to turn the wheel a lot in a hurry (eg. to swerve) the chances of having your hand(s) in an optimum place to make the adjustment are more likely with two hands on the wheel.

Is there a good reason to use one hand?

Rob.

Well the other is usually on the gear stick

Actually I probably sit slightly too far away from the wheel, but am sort of forced to as I have long legs (the Fabia's seat is back against the stops, and I have to slant it back quite a bit as well. Thank god the VAG cars have reach adjustment or I'd be completely knackered.

Actually I probably sit slightly too far away from the wheel, but am sort of forced to as I have long legs (the Fabia's seat is back against the stops, and I have to slant it back quite a bit as well. Thank god the VAG cars have reach adjustment or I'd be completely knackered.

I suffer from this too and it's a real pain in cars without reach adjustment on the steering wheel :( I'd recommend adjusting the seat so it is quite upright and if you were to hold your arms outstretched over the top of the wheel your wrists would be resting on the wheel. I tend to hold the wheel at 1/4 to 3 which gives me 180 degrees of turn either way on fixed input (for fast flowing corners) and also the ability to move one hand the top of the wheel to pull/push the steering for slower corners and roundabouts where more than 180 degrees is needed.

One thing to try is lightly pinching the wheel between thumb and forefinger of each hand. This will allow you to feel when the tyre starts to grip (and the car starts to actually change direction). If you try doing this and turn the wheel while the car is stationary, you'll get a feel for how much "dead" turn there is before the tyres start to grip and you'll feel a change in resistance through your fingertips. This means that if you're going to be steering effectively at the start of a corner you need to steer earlier so that you have the wheels gripping just as you reach the start of that corner. The tyres typically take 1/2 second to find grip.

Well that's me rambling again - hopefully there's something useful in there for you

Chris

Well the other is usually on the gear stick

Yeah, I found I needed to constantly change gear when I drove the Fab vRS too...

Rob.

Forward planning would have had you in the right gear

Forward planning would have had you in the right gear

You still run out of revs whether you plan for it or not...

Rob.

You still run out of revs whether you plan for it or not...

Surely if you run out of revs, you're not in the right gear? :P

Chris

Surely if you run out of revs, you're not in the right gear? :P

Indeed...you change up shortly before you run out of revs...ie. in the Fab vRS, constantly...which was my original point... :P

Rob.

Surely if you run out of revs, you're not in the right gear? :P

Chris

:orb_futur

all rolls back to forward planning, wheres that crystal ball

Indeed...you change up shortly before you run out of revs...ie. in the Fab vRS, constantly...which was my original point... :P

Rob.

And by then you've gone past umpty million cars - just how pushy / suicidal are you :P