Just been away for 10 days - driving in several different regions of the country - mostly down South - and noticed on many of the country roads that very few cars 'rounded off' corners (i.e. they scrupulously stayed inside the single broken white lines) yet the road ahead was clear and no-one was around to overtake them.

:confused:

Suspect to most of them the centre lines clearly define which side of the road they should be driving on and anyone who crosses them is reckless and a hooligan.

I was disappointed to learn today that RoSPA/ROADAR are now no longer encouraging straight lining of bends or "off-siding" even if it is safe to do so, so it would seem "advanced driving" standards are being dumbed down as well.

Chris

Thought they'd changed the rules or something - couldn't believe how 'rigid' they were in their compliance :(

Wish they were that good on the motorway - one guy nearly 'took us out'. I was in outside lane and he indicated and moved over - if I hadn't have braked hard we'd have been barrier-crunching

A serious brown-pants moment. I gave him a good glare after - wife said he said 'Sorry'.

Although he did indicate at least - so many don't, and so many indicate and then swerve over quite (almost) violently to fit into a gap. I always thought you indicated almost as a request in a 'tightish' situation i.e. please can I come out.

BTW was around Andover on Sat Sun - you should be plenty worried, though the roads around your neck of the woods are brill, fast, clear, dual-carrigeways, smooth surfaces

Yeah, I've now adopted the "safety bubble approach" on dual carriageways and motorways so I always strive to have clear road on all sides of the car and readjust the shape of the bubble based on where it's being "squished". This means that I try and minimise the time I'm alongside people and sit behind them until there's enough space in front of me to move up to the next gap.

Indicators are one of those funny things. Advanced driving organisations recommend you should show 5 flashes before starting the manouevre to give you time to gauge everyone's responses, but in the real world, indicators seem to mean "I'm coming through" rather than "I intend to come through" so I think people get wary if you leave the indicator on for any length of time and assume you've just knocked it on by accident. Still, at least had he hit you, he could have told his insurance company he was signalling

And taken to stalking me now :eek: You'll also have to tell me where these clear, smooth-surfaced dual carriageways are - I've yet to find them! Some cracking B roads though especially on the Salisbury Plains! Next time you're down, we'll have to arrange a taster session

Chris

I was disappointed to learn today that RoSPA/ROADAR are now no longer encouraging straight lining of bends or "off-siding" even if it is safe to do so, so it would seem "advanced driving" standards are being dumbed down as well.

I was told this was the case by my roadcraft tutor. Kind of put me off following up any other kind of advanced driving in the future. Sad really. I'll nearly always straight line a corner if it's obviously clear for far enough - For me it's almost more about saving tyre wear than the actual safety/skidding p.o.v.

You'll also have to tell me where these clear, smooth-surfaced dual carriageways are - I've yet to find them!

You come up Naarth and you'll discover how good your roads are compared to ours, and the chevrons down South indicate a relatively smooth corner - they'd be called 'wuz' warnings up here.

You'll also have to tell me where these clear, smooth-surfaced dual carriageways are - I've yet to find them!

Try Germany

Kind of put me off following up any other kind of advanced driving in the future.

Funnily enough the IAM (who have been very against it for the past few years) have decided to promote it (or should that be tolerate it!) again now, and there are advanced driving organisations who still actively teach/encourage it and I wouldn't be put off because of it.

As for saving tyre wear - I'm not sure the saving will be that significant on the majority of bends that are straight lineable but I could be wrong.

Chris

As for saving tyre wear - I'm not sure the saving will be that significant on the majority of bends that are straight lineable but I could be wrong.

Chris

Depends on whether you're a tight g*t running Falkens :P

Crazy - gotta be safer too in wet / frosty conditions.

Crazy - gotta be safer too in wet / frosty conditions.

Or it could be safer to use the drier, well worn lines other cars have taken?

Who knows!

Chris

Or it could be safer to use the drier, well worn lines other cars have taken?

Who knows!

Chris

You been watching too much MotoGP I take it :P

Depends on whether you're a tight g*t running Falkens :P

...

Like me? The guy talked me into them. Not impressed at all.

Like me? The guy talked me into them. Not impressed at all.

Ther's one born every ....................:P

Ther's one born every ....................:P

Yeah yeah, I know...

Yeah yeah, I know...

From you

You been watching too much MotoGP I take it :P

Not me, guv - I'm too busy terrorising the roads of Hants

Chris

Suspect to most of them the centre lines clearly define which side of the road they should be driving on and anyone who crosses them is reckless and a hooligan.

I was disappointed to learn today that RoSPA/ROADAR are now no longer encouraging straight lining of bends or "off-siding" even if it is safe to do so, so it would seem "advanced driving" standards are being dumbed down as well.

So how, legally, does this 'straight lining' of bends fit with the highway code?

127 A broken white line. This marks the centre of the road. When this line lengthens and the gaps shorten, it means that there is a hazard ahead. Do not cross it unless you can see the road is clear and wish to overtake or turn off.

131 Lane dividers. These are short, broken white lines which are used on wide carriageways to divide them into lanes. You should keep between them.

Would it be considered 'legal' even if it's safe? (127 does seem to be ambiguous as to whether the 4th sentence refers to the 1st & 2nd or 3rd statement)

I think for it to be a 'legal' rule it must have "MUST/MUST NOT" in it. Eg, Rule 129

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary' date=' provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

[b'][Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26][/b]

all the other rules are advisory and possibly open to interpretation as they're written in "easy-to-understand" English rather than legal jargon.

As I read rule 127, hazard lines warn of an impending hazard and should only be crossed if it's clear and you want to overtake/turn off, but I can see how it could be interpreted as referring to all centre lines. Rule 131 is a bit more clear cut, but still not legally binding as it says "should". I'd say from a driver's point of view, providing it is safe and does not inconvenience or mislead other road users then the police are unlikely to have a problem with it.

Chris

I think for it to be a 'legal' rule it must have "MUST/MUST NOT" in it. Eg, Rule 129

I'd worry that "Do not cross it unless you can see the road is clear and wish to overtake or turn off." is very close to 'must not'? If, of course, it's referring to the original lines and not the hazard lines?

I think a lot of people would be found not cutting corners due to the legal ambiguity and the fact you are told to never straddle lanes by the majority of Driving Instructors when you learn?

Would you be likely to straight-line a corner if a Police car was behind you? Even if it was empty and safe?

I'd worry that "Do not cross it unless you can see the road is clear and wish to overtake or turn off." is very close to 'must not'? If, of course, it's referring to the original lines and not the hazard lines?

I think a lot of people would be found not cutting corners due to the legal ambiguity and the fact you are told to never straddle lanes by the majority of Driving Instructors when you learn?

Would you be likely to straight-line a corner if a Police car was behind you? Even if it was empty and safe?

I'd have no problem doing it - after all it's what the police are taught to do, so I'd expect them to be doing the same In fact, I did it on a couple of corners for my RoSPA test and the examiner (a class 1 traffic officer) said he was pleased to see it being used to good effect.

I think the main reason why learners are not taught to straighten out corners is because a little knowledge is very dangerous and it's better to keep them "safe" between the lines.

The introduction to the HC distinguishes the wording of rules (Introduction : Directgov - Travel and transport) and I would say that if the HC was being used in evidence against you to determine liability, then the straightlining wouldn't have met the criteria of being safe, and not causing inconvenience to or misleading other road users.

Just my thoughts though - I am not a traffic officer or a lawyer

Chris

I was just throwing ideas around as to why you don't see people doing it. Which I've mainly settled on the answer "The majority have no advanced training and hence have only ever been told not to do it".

I suppose if you were questioned as to why you'd done it you could always use the reason that you have been trained that way (ie show a qualification), those without can only use the excuse that they felt it was safe - and, as you said about police training, if they haven't been formally told how to use the technique you could argue that it is more unsafe?

I, for one, would be loathed to attempt it in a situation I know an officer would observe. Just in case. Perhaps, with a RoSPA or IAM certificate I'd feel more justified. But I guess thats a confidence/security thing?

But I guess thats a confidence/security thing?

Or perhaps a stupidity thing on my part! At the end of the day, if an officer is to pull me up on it, chances are that in his eyes it wasn't a safe manouevre and no amount of certificate waving would save me. I saw a one liner the other day which made me smile:

"Advanced driving is like being the boss. If you have to tell someone you are, you ain't"

Ironically with more and more dumbing down of syllabuses you might have to seek a higher level of training before you get the tuition needed to do it safely - if you're interested I'm sure Jon (TaviaRS) would take you out as he's just up the road from you in Chesterfield....

Chris

Seeing we've strayed onto crossing white lines/road markings, I've taken the highway code's generous interpretation to take this alternative route at the following junction to cros a hatching bounded by a broken white line. The way the traffic light sequence works, whne the green arrow gets stopped at a red ligth, you still have 5-10 seconds before the left turn changes and then the out route on the red arrow has another 10-15 seconds so well worth the detour:D

But am I right or wrong? Only done it once but "it hurt and I felt dirty" and I've not done it since.

As to generally cutting corners, I've not had any advanced tuition but occasionally do it anyway - not that I often drive on these sorts of roads. I find it easier to do (more confident) when I'm following a car though. Probably because if there's a car in the middle of the road coming the other way they'll hit it first.

Nothing wrong with entering a hatched area that's bounded by a broken white line, provided it's safe to do so. I don't see anything wrong with your detour, assuming that you can safely do a U-turn in the road There used to be some traffic light sequences where I grew up which were timed such that you could turn right into a trading estate and then get the green light from the trading estate to get back on the road you'd turned into the estate from before the lights went to green A diagram would probably make that easier to understand

Hatched areas are a good place for overtaking, especially in areas where 2 lanes merge into one and you have a good view into the distance. I will also use them if there's a marked right turn and it means I can brake in a straight line (allowing me to leave the braking later) through the hatching to get to the right turn lane. Just make sure that if you chose to do this, the hatching is well "swept" as some of them seem to gather a lot of debris which could damage tyres.

Phew! Hope some of that makes sense!

Chris

There's a no u-turn sign at the lights on the main road but nothing as far as I have seen on the side road. I assumed the sign was specific to the main road. The driver who beat me to the lights by speeding and then stopped can't have been happy because once his lights changed he caught up with me very rapidly in what is a 40 zone.