PD TDI > Triple chipping

[pietch]

Finally got the old girl remapped by the experts (but had to remove the digital tuning box first). I however have kept the air temp resistor mod on as without it the car is just not torquey enough off-boost (I tried it)!

I think if it would be possible I would like to put my digital tuning box back on to get the torque surge I used to get between 1500 – 3000 rpm, it would complete the car in my opinion giving masses of torque right through the rev range!

Has anyone tried this?

My verdicts:

Analogue resistor mod: This fools the fuel temp sensor in thinking I am in sub zero Russian climates and trips the cold climate maps in the ECU up until 3250 rpm.

Verdict: Amazing value and probably the most noticeable in terms of refinement, it really helps the initial accelerator and clutch relationship. BHP added probably none, torque low down (below 1500 rpm) about 20% up at least! Does not effect MOT emissions (tested). No soot. No check light problems.

Digital Tuning Box (aka Piggy Back ECU): Digitally alters signals from the ECU and pumps in more fuel at different RPM and Throttle positions.

Verdict: Works really really well, especially off boost. Increases power band. Can be adjusted from 1-10 (10 being max power). Does not alter turbo boost pressure and uses existing fuel maps. Can be used with analogue mod with no check light, problems. Car soot’s a little on setting '10'. MOT emissions are on limit (tested), but the device can be turned down or turned off in an instant prior to MOT test.

Aggressive Remap: Proper remap. New fuel maps and boost pressures. Runs 1.38 boost and 1.46 over boost (or something like this). I opted for the most aggressive map available.

Verdict: Car feels less torquey (perhaps it’s just more refined)) but it is defiantly faster! I would say performance is up another 20-25% compared with when I was using the digital tuning box along with the analogue mod. However it does not have the same 'off boost' performance as before, for real speed a change down is by far the best option. Car soot’s more than digital tuning box but only on WOT 'overboost'. MPG is also down by 20 miles per tank, not that it matters and could be just the fact that my driving enjoyment is up! MOT Emissions are un-effected (I have been told), on boost emissions? Who cares!

[ScoobyChris]

If you've had it remapped both the air temp mod and digital tuning box should not be necessary and may be harmful if the remap is pushing the car close to its limits.....

If you want the surge back, go and get the map tweaked by the people who did the remap

Chris

[jasc1988]

is that pikey resistor mod?... from ebay i guess?? it's a pile of ****!!

doesnt do a sodding thing!!

[pietch]

jasc1988:

It is a pikey mod (a 20p resistor in a nice box sold for £20) but it does work, and work very well indeed. From trying all the above mods I would say this is the best value, infact if I could only make one modification to the engine this cheap resistor would win!

Chris:

My remap is the limit of what is available/ possible - Jabba sport did it. However by adding the resistor mod the car is once again further enhanced Hence my quest regarding the digital tuning box, however it looks like no one has tried all three together so far, perhaps for good reason...

[jasc1988]

im sorry but it is widely known that it is a lot of rubbish, i had one on my 1.2 corsa 'badboy' back in the day, lmao..

[pietch]

On a 1.2 petrol car it works totally differently then on a PD TDI. Trust me I have tried the mod and recently I took it off to change the oil... I left it off for one journey and really missed it! It went right back on!

Here is some more info:

The 'cheap trick box way' - there are dozens of auctions selling cheap 2PIN connector devices, for £30-50. These devices are just resistors - irrespective of any other claims, a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function in the UK - you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm - nothing over 3250 rpm.

[jasc1988]

On a 1.2 petrol car it works totally differently then on a PD TDI. Trust me I have tried the mod and recently I took it off to change the oil... I left it off for one journey and really missed it! It went right back on!

Here is some more info:

The 'cheap trick box way' - there are dozens of auctions selling cheap 2PIN connector devices, for £30-50. These devices are just resistors - irrespective of any other claims, a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function in the UK - you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm - nothing over 3250 rpm.

if your pumping in more fuel you also need more air i would gather?

[Ess_Three]

On a 1.2 petrol car it works totally differently then on a PD TDI. Trust me I have tried the mod and recently I took it off to change the oil... I left it off for one journey and really missed it! It went right back on!

Here is some more info:

The 'cheap trick box way' - there are dozens of auctions selling cheap 2PIN connector devices, for £30-50. These devices are just resistors - irrespective of any other claims, a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function in the UK - you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm - nothing over 3250 rpm.

I have to agree with you about the plug in Fuel Temperature mod...I bought one a few years ago from Germany...I've tried it on both a 1.4 PD and a 1.9 PD and it does indeed work.

The 1.4 PD without wouldn't break traction in 2nd...with it, it would easily (Audi A2)

The 1.9 PD with it felt NOTICABLY quicker low down.

I've not dynod either...but from the 100+ dyno runs I've done over many cars, you don't feel a handful of BHP or lb-ft...so it's doing something meaningful.

The only downside on the 1.9 PD was that I ended up with an intermittant really rough idle when the car was part way between cold and normal operating temperature...I removed the 'resistor' and it went away.

But, it works...that is for sure.

[Ess_Three]

Sorry...just deleting a duplicate post.

[tonto kowalski]

Why would you want more torque low down?

That's where you've already got plenty.

I thought the point of tinkering with the factory settings was to spread the torque higher up the rev range.Increasing the torque at low revs will merely wear out the clutch and potentially the dual mass flywheel.

So for an outlay ot 20 odd quid you could end up with a repair bill of a grand.

Is it just me, or does it make sense just to leave it well alone?

[Basil]

those mods would perhaps be useful with a sub-optimal map - but a proper remap is maxxing out all parameters safely.

You can be remapped to feel a surge of torque or go for smoothness - Jabba is known to be one of the best - I wouldnt push it any further or else you risk breaking summat - which would cost a lot more than the resistor would..

Just my 2p worth....

[ScoobyChris]

if your pumping in more fuel you also need more air i would gather?

Diesels always run in excess air so that's not an issue. My resistor mod was the best bang for buck mod I ever did

Chris

[ScoobyChris]

My remap is the limit of what is available/ possible - Jabba sport did it. However by adding the resistor mod the car is once again further enhanced Hence my quest regarding the digital tuning box, however it looks like no one has tried all three together so far, perhaps for good reason...

What you have to think of is how the car is working. Basically all the sensors in the engine are feeding back signals to the brain (aka the ECU). You've had the ECU mapped to the limit of its capabilities which has presumably upped boost and fuelling, so it's on the edge of a safe limit?

The resistor mod just makes the car think the fuel is a different temperature so monkeys with the sensor outputs to make the ECU overfuel even more. Surely if the ECU is mapped to the limit, this is not a good thing for the car ... and if it does make a difference then perhaps the ECU map could be tweaked further, or there is a reason why it wasn't?

Chris

[mannyo]

Was the remap at Jabba a custom one, or a generic one?

The custom one, is done in such a way that the engine is mapped to within safe limits, adding the resistor will go over these limits and something will give, and you will have a nice big bill. The map is specific to your engine, and tailored taking existing mods into account.

If it was a generic, then its possible it may make a difference because a generic map has safer tollerences because the same map is used on lots of engines.

I would have gone for a custom map, yes it costs more and takes longer but you get the results you want because Mike can map the car how you want it. Lots of low down torque etc...

[pietch]

Mannyo:

The Jabba remap is a generic one which had been custom mapped for max possible power the day before on a 1.4 TDI Polo which made 111BHP and 180 lb/ft.

Chris:

You said "You've had the ECU mapped to the limit of its capabilities which has presumably upped boost and fuelling, so it's on the edge of a safe limit?"

I believe the ECU may be at the limit but I don't think the engine is, remember its a 1.4 TDI which is just a 1.9 TDI with a cylinder missing

[ScoobyChris]

I believe the ECU may be at the limit but I don't think the engine is, remember its a 1.4 TDI which is just a 1.9 TDI with a cylinder missing

But the engine is controlled by the ECU and the ECU defines safe limits for the engine? If the ECU is mapped to give the maximum power from the engine, then I'm not sure how the engine can provide more power safely, or the remap would have done that....?

Chris

[cheezemonkhai]

im sorry but it is widely known that it is a lot of rubbish, i had one on my 1.2 corsa 'badboy' back in the day, lmao..

They do "work" for a given value of work.

The resistor fools the engine into thinking it's always cold so it over fuels.

Personally take it off as it isn't good for the engine at the best of times and really is a bit risky with a remap. It would also explain why you are getting excessive smoke from the car as per your other thread.

[Babs]

I'm waiting for the "my engine went bang" thread in the tech forum

[tonto kowalski]

Mannyo:

The Jabba remap is a generic one which had been custom mapped

Which is it?

Generic?

Custom?

[Babs]

damnit! can't you read man!

it's a generically customised one!

[pietch]

cheezemonkhai:

The car only soots on WOT and the resistor makes no difference - I have tried with and without

Basically can anyone offer some real advice from a technical point of view?

[cheezemonkhai]

From a purely software point of view, anything that can be done by either the tuning box or the resistor "mods" can be duplicated by a remap.

If you don't want your engine to have a greatly increased risk of going bang then take the other two things off and keep them off. If the surge is missing then as said above ask the mapper to tweak the map to get it back.

The ecu is just some clever software so a mapper can tell it to put more fuel in all the time or increase boost etc as per the other two mods.

If the resistor mod isn't increasing soot, then it inst increasing fuelling, so it isn't doing it's "job" so should come off.

Feel free to ignore what I and everyone else has said, but if you do at least heed the warnings given and we might see you in the my engine went pop thread on the other side.

[pietch]

Resistor does a massive job with low end grunt - trust me. It cuts in the cold weather maps up until 3250 rpm which is when the jabba map cuts in until 4800rpm I believe.

So effectivelty is the ECU is running on a VAG winter map until 3250 - bearing this in mind what exactly will the digital tuning box do and at what RPMs?

I have had all three types at different times... first the resistor, then just the digital box, then both resistor and digital box, then remap, then remap with resistor, however never all three. This is all over the last 50,000 miles with no problems.

I really miss what the digital box did for the car mid rpm range... the resistor works low rpm and the remap high rpm's.

Anyone know more about the digital tuning boxes and the way they work?

I also have to disagree about the ECU limitations... Jabba map the last 30% of the accelrator only, up until that point the car is running standard, so unless your going for it all the time the remap will not come into play. All mods can't be duplicated as you suggest cheezemonkhai.

Dragon Performance UK Ltd :: Skoda :: Skoda Fabia :: Fabia 1.4 TDI 80 I have this one.

[ScoobyChris]

3250rpm seems very late for power to come in on a diesel! Did you get a rolling road plot?

Chris

[pietch]

Scoobychris:

"It cuts in the cold weather maps up until 3250 rpm" - the power band is very good on my car indeed, especially after the remap - pulls from 800rpm until 4800rpm - but I want more of a surge before 2600rpm which is what the digital box offered, made the car feel alot more fun!