They are available with climate as an option - however if you go via drive the deal the Seat Ibiza Ref Sport 1.4tdi/1.9tdi 105bhp is vastly cheaper i.e. 9.8k/£10.1k vs £13-14.5k for the fabia anyone with their head screwed on would opt for the Ibiza given those price differences.

They are available with climate as an option - however if you go via drive the deal the Seat Ibiza Ref Sport 1.4tdi/1.9tdi 105bhp is vastly cheaper i.e. 9.8k/£10.1k vs £13-14.5k for the fabia anyone with their head screwed on would opt for the Ibiza given those price differences.

Apart from the fact that the Ibiza is a whole platform series older - a run-out Mk1 Fabia would probably be even cheaper...

Apart from the fact that the Ibiza is a whole platform series older - a run-out Mk1 Fabia would probably be even cheaper...

True - but its £3-4k saving on a small city car with the same engine and higher spec. And given it includes the 1.4 TDI this is really an economy car so people will be buying with their wallet in mind.

Mkk1 Fabia run outs can you still buy them new??

Oh for sure the Ibiza is cheaper, and if you are buying with only money in mind, sure go for it.

But its not just about cash is it.

Have you sat in an Ibiza and a new Fabia, the quality is WORLDS apart. Then theres the size of the things, residual values etc...

True - but its £3-4k saving on a small city car with the same engine and higher spec. And given it includes the 1.4 TDI this is really an economy car so people will be buying with their wallet in mind.

Mkk1 Fabia run outs can you still buy them new??

Possibly not anymore to be fair, but the fact remains that, being a newer platform, the Mk2 Fabia ought to offer benefits in terms of suspension / drivetrain / electronics development that won't be present in the 'older' Ibiza. Plus, cars tend to grow from mark to mark, so you'll probably find the Ibiza is smaller inside than the Fabia (in fact IIRC from when I tested one, the Ibiza's smaller than the Mk1 Fabia anyway!) Although I don't think either can reasonably be classed as 'small city cars' in the vein of the Fox / Smart For4, etc anyway...

Oh for sure the Ibiza is cheaper, and if you are buying with only money in mind, sure go for it.

But its not just about cash is it.

Definitely not - it's about looks and kit too, and I know which one wins hands down on that score

Chris

Here we go... :ready2go:

Give the guy a break - he's just bought a new car FFS!

Give the guy a break - he's just bought a new car FFS!

Who? The Welshman?! :eek:

Chris

Who? The Welshman?! :eek:

Chris

Uh, yeah. Maybe it was a bit harsh, but come on the guy's just bought a new car, so it's a bit unfair to say he's bought the 'wrong' one - especially on a Skoda forum! A bit of discussion's one thing, but to start quoting specs and prices and basically call the guy a skinflint who wastes his money (how does that work???) and knows nothing about cars is a bit unfair IMO...

Uh, yeah. Maybe it was a bit harsh, but come on the guy's just bought a new car, so it's a bit unfair to say he's bought the 'wrong' one - especially on a Skoda forum! A bit of discussion's one thing, but to start quoting specs and prices and basically call the guy a skinflint who wastes his money (how does that work???) and knows nothing about cars is a bit unfair IMO...

Didnt read the whole thread only the original one by a main dealer, Ive purely quoted prices available for exactly the same car but by Seat. These cars are all Budget cars and buying diesel clearly points to the fact the potntial buyers are clearly focused on saving £ - which is a great thing (and I do this myself) however given your buying a brand new car (why oh why do people do this let mugs buy new then buy at 1/2/3 years old at half the price) then given there is up to a 30% price saving by going Ibiza over Fabia clearly has to register.

Someone stated that the Fabia is bigger:

Fabia

Length = 3992mm

Wdth = 1642mm

Height = 1498mm

Weight = 1170kg

Boot = 300ltrs

Ibiza

Length = 3953mm

Width = 1698mm

Height = 1441mm

Weight = 1169kg

Boot = 267ltrs

So its all of 4cm longer!!! and its Centre of gravity is higher (not a good thing!), its boot is bigger which is a good thing. Weight oddly is the same given the new model is slightly bigger - so maybe specific weight per square meter is lower for the Fabia but thats irrelevant in this debate.

Having tested an Ibiza before getting my Mk1 Fabia, I must say I'm surprised to see that, since the Fabia seems much more spacious inside, and I can't imagine the Mk2 having a smaller interior. And from a BMW fan like yourself, I'm surprised that you don't seem to recognise that turbo-diesels have performance benefits beyond just fuel economy (e.g. higher torque levels meaning less need to drive up near the redline to get decent acceleration)

And as for buying new being a mug's game, it depends how long you intend to keep the car for, how confident you are in the used car's history, and how bothered you are about having the options you want. If your car's just a means of getting from A to B until you get bored and want a change but aren't bothered about and 'hidden surpises', then the simple economics make buying used worthwhile, but if you see things differently to that, then a new car may make more sense...

Having tested an Ibiza before getting my Mk1 Fabia, I must say I'm surprised to see that, since the Fabia seems much more spacious inside, and I can't imagine the Mk2 having a smaller interior. And from a BMW fan like yourself, I'm surprised that you don't seem to recognise that turbo-diesels have performance benefits beyond just fuel economy (e.g. higher torque levels meaning less need to drive up near the redline to get decent acceleration)

And as for buying new being a mug's game, it depends how long you intend to keep the car for, how confident you are in the used car's history, and how bothered you are about having the options you want. If your car's just a means of getting from A to B until you get bored and want a change but aren't bothered about and 'hidden surpises', then the simple economics make buying used worthwhile, but if you see things differently to that, then a new car may make more sense...

To be frank on small city cars like the Fabia/Ibiza options are pretty limited and some are nice to have but not really vital i.e. you wouldnt expect sat nav Factory fit nor xenons nor leather in most cars as its such a high extra cost when new, you compromise.

Also if your thinking of spending £13-14k on a car than in 3 years time will be worth £4-5k you may as well have bought a 5-6k car now then even if the engine was ruined you could either buy a brand new engine or even buy another used car and still it would be far cheaper for you.

People who buy new are in the main comp car drivers/hire companies/rent a car and the odd well off/got to have it now attitude of some people (all on finance "the drip" of course)

Remember if your buying a £13-14k car on finance your in effect paying nearer £20k think hard about that as if you had bought the £5-6k you could have paid cash or a vastly lower finance cost and be cleared of the debt far sooner then you can save up and maybe be able to pay cash for th next car (or pay off student loans/overdrafts/mortgage overpayments).

Diesel performance over petrol is the higher torque at much lower revs = a more relaxed sort of drive than a manic chasing the red line o petrol n/a. however a turbo petrol like the VW 1.8t/2.0t have very TDI characteristics i.e. very low revs for max torque but a longer rev range. Each to their own as to which they want - which is best is not a one oanswer fits all.

1. As I said before, since when has a Fabia been a small city car - they're barely smaller than a Mk3 Golf!?!

2. You'd expect 70% depreciation after 3 years on a large saloon like a 7-Series or an XK, but not on a hatchback - 45-55% is more reasonable depending on the exact model. The £4-5k figure you quote will get you a 4- or 5-year-old Fabia (depending on condition and spec); it certainly wouldn't stretch to a 3-year-old mid-spec equivalent to the Sport being discussed.

3. As far as finance goes, that depends on whether you view your car as an asset or an overhead. For me, it's a means of transport, so I view it as an overhead just like groceries and mortgage payments. And seeing how it isn't too difficult to get finance for a car at 5-6%, a £14k car will cost £16-£16.5k over three years, not nearly £20k - a trainee actuary like you ought to have a better grasp of compound interest!

4. Few people have even £5-6k in available cash, so if you're going to make use of finance, you also need to bear in mind the fact that a higher advance will get you a better interest rate, and so this is another factor requiring consideration along with the increased longevity of a new car. Again, this is something an actuary ought to be aware of - heaven help me if you end up administering my pension...

I bought myself a new Roomster last November. I did tick most of the options available so it had to be a new build.

For me the deal made sense as I didn't have the money available to buy outright and I got a decent rate of 5.5% but this was also mostly offset by getting free servicing as part of the deal. I also got a hefty chunk of the retail price so am overall happy with the deal I got.

If you just "use" a car rather than enthuse about them I can see buying 6month+ demos or nearly new makes a lot of sense but if you want something a bit more personal and see a car not just as a consumable good then I think buying new is fine if you get the right deal. I don't have to worry about servicing costs at all for the next 3 years now.

1. As I said before, since when has a Fabia been a small city car - they're barely smaller than a Mk3 Golf!?!

2. You'd expect 70% depreciation after 3 years on a large saloon like a 7-Series or an XK, but not on a hatchback - 45-55% is more reasonable depending on the exact model. The £4-5k figure you quote will get you a 4- or 5-year-old Fabia (depending on condition and spec); it certainly wouldn't stretch to a 3-year-old mid-spec equivalent to the Sport being discussed.

3. As far as finance goes, that depends on whether you view your car as an asset or an overhead. For me, it's a means of transport, so I view it as an overhead just like groceries and mortgage payments. And seeing how it isn't too difficult to get finance for a car at 5-6%, a £14k car will cost £16-£16.5k over three years, not nearly £20k - a trainee actuary like you ought to have a better grasp of compound interest!

4. Few people have even £5-6k in available cash, so if you're going to make use of finance, you also need to bear in mind the fact that a higher advance will get you a better interest rate, and so this is another factor requiring consideration along with the increased longevity of a new car. Again, this is something an actuary ought to be aware of - heaven help me if you end up administering my pension...

1. The fabia is a small city car fact, if not do you call it a medium sized family car? If so what do you call a Golf/1 series/Astra? And then what do you call a 5 series & finally a 7 series? It is a city car look at any Autocar group test with the new fabia in it and its city group car test (or small shopping trolly runabout)

2 Part x yes I certainly would. Also look on A.T. and you will see Golf G TDI 140's Mk5 on 54 plates which start from £7k thats a 70% loss for a top of the range on the TDI model.

3. A car is an asset as it will have a Net present value (even if unroadworthy it has scrap value). APR's of 5-6% ...well usually car makers put these deals on models which are not selling that well (usually). Plus most people who do buy new tend to go for the PCP deals which as you may realise means that your financing the baloon payment for the whole term + please show me a link to a current PCP offer on the "Top of the range" model.

4 Few people have 5-6k cash...yet those same people are willing to spend near on £15k on a new car - are they nuts? This is non sensical you should save up then buy it for cash and if that will take too long buy a 2nd hand version so you lose less £.

What annoys me a hell of a lot is the other thread no new vRS - most people who are replying to that thread already have a vRS yet they want to change it at the oldest their car would be a 53 reg thats 4 years old there is nothing at all wong with runninng a 4 year old car and unless their circumstances have changed i.e. need a 4x4/estate etc then why would they need to change it? If its just to get a new model to have the pride to say Ive got a new one then its pathetic and obviously clearly down to our throw away western society. Or maybe its because they have modified it so much parts are wearing out far sooner than they anticipated.

Also I hear that some people change their cars because the cambelt change is required yet they dont fancy paying the costs - a mere £400-500 then thats it for 4 years - idiotic.

I bought myself a new Roomster last November. I did tick most of the options available so it had to be a new build.

For me the deal made sense as I didn't have the money available to buy outright and I got a decent rate of 5.5% but this was also mostly offset by getting free servicing as part of the deal. I also got a hefty chunk of the retail price so am overall happy with the deal I got.

If you just "use" a car rather than enthuse about them I can see buying 6month+ demos or nearly new makes a lot of sense but if you want something a bit more personal and see a car not just as a consumable good then I think buying new is fine if you get the right deal. I don't have to worry about servicing costs at all for the next 3 years now.

Can I ask are you going to keep this car until it is uneconomical to repair or just for 3 years? Also the servicing for the first 3 years = what £600???

When you say you didnt have the money available then can I assume you could have paid it off but youd have to sell equity or cash in savings bonds and therefore not get the best market price or pay penalty interest charges?

Everyone uses a car to commute there is no joy in sitting on the M4 for 2hrs a day travelling at barely 20mph ave speed & (please dont take this the wrong way) Im sure most people wouldnt call a a-b runabout like the roomster and most other sub £17k cars much to enthuse about. I think it looks quirky (in a good way) and Id be happy to own one but for sure wouldnt think of it as a special occasion to drive it as its only a run about.

1. The fabia is a small city car fact, if not do you call it a medium sized family car? If so what do you call a Golf/1 series/Astra? And then what do you call a 5 series & finally a 7 series? It is a city car look at any Autocar group test with the new fabia in it and its city group car test (or small shopping trolly runabout)

If you say so, but turning that back at you, what's a Smart? There's a gulf between the capabilities of one of those and a Fabia.

2 Part x yes I certainly would. Also look on A.T. and you will see Golf G TDI 140's Mk5 on 54 plates which start from £7k thats a 70% loss for a top of the range on the TDI model.

That's quite good going, seeing how they didn't come in until the 05 plate, and you're looking at over £10 for a tatty one; not £7k! You may be confusing it for the TDI Sport (104bhp), but even then, you're looking at over £8k for a tatty one! And neither are the top-spec model!

3. A car is an asset as it will have a Net present value (even if unroadworthy it has scrap value). APR's of 5-6% ...well usually car makers put these deals on models which are not selling that well (usually). Plus most people who do buy new tend to go for the PCP deals which as you may realise means that your financing the baloon payment for the whole term + please show me a link to a current PCP offer on the "Top of the range" model.

I never said cars weren't assets; my point was it's a matter of perception. Houses are assets, yet most people can't afford to buy them outright. While the fact that houses generally appreciate skews the matter somewhat, you wouldn't tell someone to sleep rough until they could afford to buy their own house, you'd tell them to rent somewhere. My mum has 4% finance on her Jazz SE (hardly an unpopular car), and you can still get personal loans at 6% if you look hard enough, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get that rate on a dealer's finance if you're prepared to do a bit of haggling. And I don't agree that most people use PCP when buying new. It only works out cheap the first time you buy a car, as all you're doing is off-setting the car's future value. Using traditional finance means you own something of value at the end of the term, giving you something to trade / sell at the end of the term.

4 Few people have 5-6k cash...yet those same people are willing to spend near on £15k on a new car - are they nuts? This is non sensical you should save up then buy it for cash and if that will take too long buy a 2nd hand version so you lose less £.

Don't agree. If you can afford the repayments out of your disposable income, why shouldn't you buy a more expensive car on finance. Saving up even for a £4k car would take nearly a year at the £400pm that I'd expect to get a loan for a £14k car for over three years. That's a lot of taxi rides. Then there's the fact that the car will not last as long, and/or won't be worth be worth as much when you want to sell / PX it.

What annoys me a hell of a lot is the other thread no new vRS - most people who are replying to that thread already have a vRS yet they want to change it at the oldest their car would be a 53 reg thats 4 years old there is nothing at all wong with runninng a 4 year old car and unless their circumstances have changed i.e. need a 4x4/estate etc then why would they need to change it? If its just to get a new model to have the pride to say Ive got a new one then its pathetic and obviously clearly down to our throw away western society. Or maybe its because they have modified it so much parts are wearing out far sooner than they anticipated.

This is coming from the guy who supposedly drooled all over a colleagues RS4 - that alone is proof that you both believe cars to be more than a means of transport, and are also open to the thought of possessing items of value more than the sum of their parts (i.e. the cost to produce it over and above a base-model A4 won't be proportional to relative retail cost)

Also I hear that some people change their cars because the cambelt change is required yet they dont fancy paying the costs - a mere £400-500 then thats it for 4 years - idiotic.

While I won't agree with you often, I do agree with you here - selling a car just to avoid a service is pretty stupid. If you were going to get rid anyway, and did it a little earlier because the service was due, I'd see some sense in it, but to do it because the service was due is just daft...

If you say so, but turning that back at you, what's a Smart? There's a gulf between the capabilities of one of those and a Fabia.

I think it goes like this small city car, city car, family car, junior executive car, Senior exec car, exec car.

That's quite good going, seeing how they didn't come in until the 05 plate, and you're looking at over £10 for a tatty one; not £7k! You may be confusing it for the TDI Sport (104bhp), but even then, you're looking at over £8k for a tatty one! And neither are the top-spec model!

Im talking about the 90k+ milage examples the cheapest Ive seen is a £7600 one with 95k on it and its a GT TDI 140 and there are many between there and £9k.

Or maybe its the 2.0 TDI - either way it is the TDI 140 top of the range at the time similar spec to the GT TDI 140 (my error for not being very clear but search on AT in the field GT TDI and put in 2.0 -2.5ltr engine size VW & Golf and see what it shows

I never said cars weren't assets; my point was it's a matter of perception. Houses are assets, yet most people can't afford to buy them outright. While the fact that houses generally appreciate skews the matter somewhat, you wouldn't tell someone to sleep rough until they could afford to buy their own house, you'd tell them to rent somewhere. My mum has 4% finance on her Jazz SE (hardly an unpopular car), and you can still get personal loans at 6% if you look hard enough, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get that rate on a dealer's finance if you're prepared to do a bit of haggling. And I don't agree that most people use PCP when buying new. It only works out cheap the first time you buy a car, as all you're doing is off-setting the car's future value. Using traditional finance means you own something of value at the end of the term, giving you something to trade / sell at the end of the term.

But if you buy a car for say £5-6k that will take 15-16months saving to pay cash for will be a family car of up to 5 years old - now I run a 10-11 year old car and it runs like clockwork likewise the car before it and the one before that & I know many people who do the same and dont have problems just normal routine servicing - so maybe Im/my friends have been lucky but modern cars will last 20-25 years.

Don't agree. If you can afford the repayments out of your disposable income, why shouldn't you buy a more expensive car on finance. Saving up even for a £4k car would take nearly a year at the £400pm that I'd expect to get a loan for a £14k car for over three years. That's a lot of taxi rides. Then there's the fact that the car will not last as long, and/or won't be worth be worth as much when you want to sell / PX it.

This is a very interestng point if you didnt have a car for a year as your saving up the insurance/VED/MOT/servicing will be easily £1k so thats £20 a week you can have taxi rides

This is coming from the guy who supposedly drooled all over a colleagues RS4 - that alone is proof that you both believe cars to be more than a means of transport, and are also open to the thought of possessing items of value more than the sum of their parts (i.e. the cost to produce it over and above a base-model A4 won't be proportional to relative retail cost)

Yes the RS4 is stunning both the latest one and the old model however actually owning one and proposing to own one are two different things.

While I won't agree with you often, I do agree with you here - selling a car just to avoid a service is pretty stupid. If you were going to get rid anyway, and did it a little earlier because the service was due, I'd see some sense in it, but to do it because the service was due is just daft...

@welshy,

sounds like you have your own strong opinions about buying new, fair enough. but calling people idiots for wanting to change a car that under 4 years old? bit harsh!

whats wrong with wanting a new car? this is a car owners site and i bet most people class their cars as their "pride and joy" its more than transport to them, its a hobby, a symbol, even a form of stress relief but what ever it is sometimes you just fancy a change!

if you want a car that going to have a full warranty, only be driven by you, brand new, and generally get a good finance deal then new cars are the only way to go.

most people buying new cars go for PCP? nope. most go for out right cash or low or zero percent HP. i sell way more cars to those methods than to PCP.

most new car buyers are company buyers or people with money? nope. i'd say we DO sell allot via lease but its not miles away from our normal retail deals to NORMAL people. people who save up and want to treat themselves to a new car. and its not like they are just binning their old car is it? it goes to someone who cant or doesnt want a new car.

i mean if everyone thought like you there wouldnt be any second hand cars to buy!

It doesn't really matter if people want to spend money on a new car its their choice and their money. At the end of the day buying new cars keeps the car industry going an peolpe in work. This gives car companies the money to invest in new models and technology which people can then buy used in the future.

If everyone bought a used car there would be no new cars and there would be no innovations in safety, economy, performance, or reliability/ quality.

This is a very interestng point if you didnt have a car for a year as your saving up the insurance/VED/MOT/servicing will be easily £1k so thats £20 a week you can have taxi rides

20 quid a week, ok so what do i do for the other 6 days of the week????

20 quid a week, ok so what do i do for the other 6 days of the week????

Lol, yes, £20 won't get you very far in a taxi.

Back to the original subject, I was just at my dealer and they have a dark blue metallic Fabia Sport 1.2 in. It was getting dark but it looked great from what I could see. I'll be going back in a couple of weeks for a proper look.

Lol, yes, £20 won't get you very far in a taxi.

Back to the original subject, I was just at my dealer and they have a dark blue metallic Fabia Sport 1.2 in. It was getting dark but it looked great from what I could see. I'll be going back in a couple of weeks for a proper look.

they do look great dont they?

i want to get our one reg'd and out on the road. i think its bright yellowness will brighten up this part of the world! LOL!!

@welshy,

sounds like you have your own strong opinions about buying new, fair enough. but calling people idiots for wanting to change a car that under 4 years old? bit harsh!

whats wrong with wanting a new car? this is a car owners site and i bet most people class their cars as their "pride and joy" its more than transport to them, its a hobby, a symbol, even a form of stress relief but what ever it is sometimes you just fancy a change!

if you want a car that going to have a full warranty, only be driven by you, brand new, and generally get a good finance deal then new cars are the only way to go.

most people buying new cars go for PCP? nope. most go for out right cash or low or zero percent HP. i sell way more cars to those methods than to PCP.

most new car buyers are company buyers or people with money? nope. i'd say we DO sell allot via lease but its not miles away from our normal retail deals to NORMAL people. people who save up and want to treat themselves to a new car. and its not like they are just binning their old car is it? it goes to someone who cant or doesnt want a new car.

i mean if everyone thought like you there wouldnt be any second hand cars to buy!

Look at the total cars sold in the UK around 2-2.5 million a year next look at the Qty which go to company car drivers, next hire cars, next rent cars, next Contract hire cars then finally a small percentage to Joe Public?? Unless you have this info then its pretty meanginless just stating what you sell specifically. Remember that Comp car drivers will have their cars bought through Fleet buyers who would go direct to the maker where they get significant discounts not your local dealer down the road (who may or may not actually supply the car they dont record the sale though).

The vRS is up to 4 years old so only the owners who bougt just after launch would have sunch an old car.

Giving it the pride & joy is typical sales man talk - were in a dire economical situation and personal debt is at the highest its ever been there may be job losses this year and next year and higher interest rates = much less spare cash yet you think its still fine for people to go out and change their car when there is no need to do so.

Being a car enthusiast doesnt mean changing your car every x number of years it purely means enjoying your car and looking after it.

Please tell me how sitting on the M4 2hrs each way twice a day is stress relief - all you need is a car that works.

Re - your statement most people do not buy cars on PCP - well as most new car buyers are company car buyers they specidfically do have to. Agree if someone is buying private and buying new then they must weigh up all the finance options and whatever is the cheapest wins - even putting the debt onto your credit card and balance tfring could be the cheapest.

Your last sentence is plain wrong if you simply had no private buyers buying new then your assuming that there would be no new cars to buy utter rubbish all the company cars, hire cars, lease car, contract hire cars would be in the market in 12,15/24/36/48 months and even after just 1/2/3 months

they do look great dont they?

i want to get our one reg'd and out on the road. i think its bright yellowness will brighten up this part of the world! LOL!!

Dont get me wrong I'd love to buy a new car really would but as they lose so much money its extremely hard to justify losing that much cash.

Especially when a VAG equivalent is near on 30% cheaper to buy