1.9TDi losing power.

[john.errington]

Driving home on the motorway I went to overtake and .. nothing. Pedal to the metal, made no difference, just kept pootling along. AHA says I, due for a filter service , getting insufficient diesel. So today I drove (gently) to get filters, and fitted new diesel and air filters. 30 min, no hassle.

Took car out to test it, and it seemed to be fixed, accelerating nicely uphill, then all of a sudden .. continued running fine, but flat as a pancake, no response to flooring the accelerator.

No smoke, no warning lights, nothing, just perhaps a slight rattling sound (like pinking on a petrol engine)

Car has done 130,000 m and recently had an oil & filter change. Hope one of you can tell me what to try next. I've read on these forums about turbo vanes, and MAF, also hoses - but not for the octy2 1.9 TDi.

Thanks.

Edited 11 June, 2012 by john.errington

[Lofty79]

sounds like an overboost issue with the turbo, they can get seized, if its a vnt turbo it can be cleaned out with mr muscle oven cleaner, exhaust side only.

I did it with mine with a silicone pipe down the egr hole into turbo and feeding mr muscle down there until it comes out the egr hole. it is more indepth than this but it gives you an idea.

if its a pd engine it may be same problem but a different solution.

mine drove fine but when i gave it the beans limp mode kicked in and slowed me down until i restarted engine then fine again until i booted it. This method of cleaning cured it.

[ArthurDaley]

Turbo definitely....

[Golf-Fiend]

Turbo definitely....

+1

[john.errington]

"sounds like an overboost issue with the turbo, they can get seized, if its a vnt turbo it can be cleaned out with mr muscle oven cleaner, exhaust side only.

I did it with mine with a silicone pipe down the egr hole into turbo and feeding mr muscle down there until it comes out the egr hole. it is more indepth than this but it gives you an idea.

if its a pd engine it may be same problem but a different solution." Thanks Lofty

This link describes this procedure - but unfortunately no pictures. How can I tell if its a VNT?

http://www.audi-spor...urbo-vanes.html

Further info: the turbocharger is marked VDO and the actuator attached to it is marked 038 13 1501AN - K- 308808018 if that means anything? I'm told its a GARRETT 1749B and cost £375 inc for a recon unit.

Also "mine drove fine but when i gave it the beans limp mode kicked in and slowed me down until i restarted engine then fine again until i booted it." - no warning lights are coming on - I'd have expected an engine management problem to be indicated?

"As the OP has a 2009 1.9TDI mark 2, it will be a PD unit, chances are at that age it's a BXE block."

Yes Mike its a BXE block according to the data plate.

Edited 12 June, 2012 by john.errington

[Lofty79]

You may unfortunately be looking at a new turbo mate. Too new to be able to play with probably but someone else may be able to suggest something.

[cheezemonkhai]

Turbo definitely....

Calm down everyone....

It might be an N75 or a vacuum leak and even if it's the turbo, that can be cleaned up and put back rather than just replaced.

You need to get somebody with VCDS to scan your car and see if it\'s an under or over boost, and if the latter see what the fault code is actually saying.

I'm not saying it isn't turbo overboost, but that it could be a symptom of another issue (N75 is cheaper than the turbo) and even if it is that it can be done for less thana whole new turbo.

[Lofty79]

Ok so after researching this it looks like its possible to follow the thread you linked earlier, i have looked at pictures and the are the same actuater type as i have on my alh that is vac controlled, so my opinion would be mr muscle it! its fiddly but you cant go wrong really.

Look at this ebay item, heres the turbo, if you look under the feed pipe there is an actuater with the vac cylinder, this arm is what you need to free off, mine was stuck down, and after being mr muscled i was able to push and pull it free, get a screw driver (big) and push it up and down repeatedly with mr muscle in it of course and it will free up nicely

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-MK5-1-9-TDI-TURBO-UNIT-CODE-BXE-/170819041302?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item27c59bb816#ht_986wt_1039

[john.errington]

Thanks for the pic, it helps a bit. So where do you squirt it in - and what happens to it afterwards, do you need to wash it out?

[Lofty79]

right at the top of that picture left hand side, you can see a nut, thats one half of the egr pipe, theres two nuts for it, also at other end of pipe at top of engine bay 2 allan key bolts, remove this pipe. The hole that is exposed above turbo is the one to use, some pipe thin like breather pipe posted down that hole ( has to go straight down not left or right, hard to go anywhere but straight anyway) as far as it will go til it stops. Then take the spray nozzle off the mr muscle and put the end in the pipe, needle nose pliers squeeze the nozzle at tip over pipe (but not obstructing the flow) and press towards the can to make it dispense.

As soon as you see some come out of the egr pipe hole stop and pull your pipe you put in, out. Then push that lever you saw in picture up and down repeatedly until it frees off, leave it 2hours (you can reassemble egr pipe and bolts etc) then just go out for a razz after letting engine warm up.

Oh and engine would have to be cool or cold to do this as mr muscle is flammable.

Edited 12 June, 2012 by Lofty79

[buckers0]

thanks for this post, my 1.9tdi 4x4 105bhp 2006 motor with 79000 miles on clock, is behaving exactly the same, so as soon as, i'll have a go at this procedure.

I take it this can be done via the top of the engine, by just removing some of the egr pipework, which will give better access? I have previously cleaned the egr, so can do this, but as is, can barely see the turbo from above.

I know people say modern diesels need some welly to prevent the soot build up (the previous owner appeared to drive like miss daisy, so this is prob the case) but its a poor show, that this is happening to all diesels...my previous vauxhall zafira was always coking up. I hoped skoda with this older style engine would be better, and didnt know it utilised variable vane technology. If i had i would have avoided, as i know of the problems BMW diesels are having re the same.

I never had such bother with my year 2000 1.8 tdi focus, a few years back. A dinasaur of an engine, but it kept going without fault!

[Lofty79]

when you remove the egr pipe the bottom hole in centre of exhaust manifould is where it has to go-straight down and as far as it can go. the lever coming up from the vac actuater needs to move freely up and down full length, it will be getting jammed with carbon, during the 2 hours keep pushing it down and pulling it up periodically.

I didnt get to eyeball mine much but if you look at that pic on ebay and refer to it you can feel your way, i followed vac pipe to actuater the felt up around it and opposite side to vac pipe is the shaft it controls, thats what needs to shift, its still hard to push even when free, but it should go, pull it up as well as push it down, every 10 mins or so pump it a few times. Then drive.

[Lofty79]

Heres a better pic of one

http://www.ebay.co.u...2#ht_607wt_1272

Thats the hole, turbo is effectively upside down in pic, that hole is pointing up and back on engine

On the turbo itself, the bit in middle that looks like a round tin with a shaft coming from it going between the the two sides of the turbo needs to be pressed down and pulled up repeatedly.

This tutorial is the best one ive seen:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a4-s4-forum-b5-chassis/107121-un-sticking-your-tdi-vnt-turbo-vanes.html

Edited 12 June, 2012 by Lofty79

[john.errington]

Car to Garage: Diagnostic shows P0234 “charge pressure control regulating limit exceeded” – so I guess it was going into limp home mode.

Still doesnt explain why there was no engine management warning light!

remove turbo, strip, decoke and replace £180

they wouldn't agree to try the Mr Muscle and when I saw the turbo I'm sure it wouldnt have worked in this case. Took the guy a while to strip and decoke it - it was well siezed! but its running fine now. Cheaper than a new turbo!

Interestingly my fuel consumption seems to be a lot worse - I used to average 55mpg and on one occasion I got 100mpg! Now its down around 40mpg but I'm working the turbo a bit.

maybe this is a useful diagnostic for possible turbo problems?

Thanks Lofty

Edited 16 June, 2012 by john.errington

[Lofty79]

No problem matey, the strip and clean was an indepth version of the mr muscle thing, i understand them not wanting to do it, but it would have worked. All turbos are same if vnt, and mr muscle could also be pumped in exhaust side with downpipe off. But hey, a problem cured at a 3rd of the cost is a triumph in my book, glad your sorted. mine was seized solid, touch wood still ok.

Management light wont come on with all people who have had this problem, including mine. ECU may be a bit dumb

[Anddenton]

100mpg? Come off it! No way will an Octy 1.9TDI ddo that sort of fuel economy.

Mike

Probably been watching the instantaneous readout.

[Lofty79]

i have managed 87.3mpg average over 200 miles, but that was extremely slow 38-42mph, no traffic, and that was real calculations not read out. generally careful working environment driving i get about 60-63mpg. 100 mpg COULD be possible but i have never had the conditions or a 200 mile downhill to try it

[john.errington]

Probably been watching the instantaneous readout. How else do you clock a 3 mile run?

Its pretty flat, gently downhill all the way, mostly 40 zone with only 2 sets trf lights and 1 roundabout.

Start is 90m above sea level, end only 5m.

[Anddenton]

Probably been watching the instantaneous readout. How else do you clock a 3 mile run?

Its pretty flat, gently downhill all the way, mostly 40 zone with only 2 sets trf lights and 1 roundabout.

Start is 90m above sea level, end only 5m.

Err yesss, thats not really fair basing your mpg figures on journeys like that. i got a claimed 58mpg in my scout on a 220 mile round trip today but that was sitting behind the lorries in the inside lane due to being early so was not really a fair representation of day to day motoring.

[john.errington]

not really a fair representation of day to day motoring

I didnt say it was - I wondered if very low consumption was a possible indicator of turbo problems.

There can be no "fair representation of day to day motoring" - because it depends on your own individual experience of day to day motoring. You might live in London and commute in rush hour- or do most of your driving at night on the motorways. A bit of a diference.

I did a round trip of 100m last night and got an indicated 64 mpg. A1, open country roads and very light traffic and no rush.

An aside - is it common experience that the consumption seems to be low up to about 50, then start to get worse as speed rises? (I'm a physicist, I do know about F=ma etc. )

And also in my Volvo V70 automatic, the gearchange & torque converter held the revs at about 2000. So ..

Is it more economical to use 5th - 1500 rpm or 4th - 2000 rpm?

[Lofty79]

Instead of picking on your claims i will interject a helpful comment for ya pal. 5th is more economical, and from a physics point of view i have found my most eco speed to be around 45 mph, after this wind/airpressure exerts more force on the front of the car so mine dips after 50mph. from and instant readout point of view these are the numbers i see in good weather 40mph 160mpg (just readout guys dont knicker twist it) 45mph 125mpg, 50mph 85mpg, 55mph 77mpg, 60mph 70mpg, 70mph 60 mpg, or around about these numbers. I reiterate these numbers are from my inst readout, and used for illustration purposes only, not intended as actual results, and not considered such.

Although i have seen over 80 mpg on a long run of varying conditions (not cars readout, litres-gallons, gallons-miles)

[Anddenton]

I did a round trip of 100m last night and got an indicated 64 mpg.

Round trip of 100 metres? shoyuld have walked

[john.errington]

Very interesting. Thanks guys.

[econway]

Hi All,I had the limp mode problem on my 2007 octavia 1.9tdi BXE engine,and after trying a Ebay bluetooth obd2 dongle with Torque app i eventually had to clear the famous emissions workshop on the display, the cause was boost over pressure, so i went for a blast and monitored it on the app it was max of 22.3 psi, so decided to go mr muscle route, the problem was access to turbo,so asked at local exhaust fitter's the best way to remove pipe, who told me that they wouldn't entertain changing the front pipe, so debated even more about the procedure ! anyway as problem still persisted decided to bite the bullet, first step was to put car on ramps,problem 1, ramps to steep for low profile car so had to adapt bits of timber, then after removing the belly tray all became clear, this looked fairly straight forward, unscrew clamp to exhaust/turbo (easy access) little bit difficult to remove clamp as stuck to pipe but quick hit with hammer and length of threaded bar it was off, pipe was then easily removed after that simply place cover over turbo and fill with Mr muscle, connected syringe to Wastegate and kept  plunging to be honest after 2 hours didn't feel much different, but decided to go for a spin and guess what no limp mode, checked the boost pressure and went to 16psi but would then fall back to around 14psi with same revs when accelerating onto motorway so presume Wastegate working better? 

So Thanks to Lofty for all the advice,incidentally most local garages laughed at the idea when approached and as most people have said 'Needs diagnostics and probably new Turbo'

Photo's available just pm me

Eddie

[flying pig]

So chaps,

Would you advocate giving your car an 'Italian tuneup' every once in a while in an effort to keep the turbo from seizing up? I only ask as I bought my car off an older gentleman who I don't think ever gave it a good thrashing.

For the first few months of ownership, I must admit that I took it very easy and didn't over rev the engine at all.

One night, I accelerated quite sharply in order to get ahead of standing traffic and was amazed by the amount of black smoke which came out of the exhaust.

I've since posted a similar question and most of the answers advocated giving the car a bit of welly every now and then in order to give the turbo veins a bit of a workout.

Since then, about once a month upon entering the motorway I've held the lower gears for longer until reaching 70 mph. And I must admit that the car is nowhere near as smoky as it was on that occasion I mentioned above.

So, am I wasting my time and money or is it beneficial to give the engine and turbo a bit of a workout every now and then?

Thanks in advance for your replies

FP.