Superb I Buyers Guide

[Heckler]

I've tried searching for an answer without luck... So I'm hoping you can help with this.

 

 

I'm going to look at a Superb on Tuesday, 150k on the clock but only 2 owners, maintained by a guy who works for a vw/audi/skoda/seat specialist.

 

Aside from the water ingress around the filter... what else wshould I be looking for.  I've bought plenty of cars over the years and out of 12 purchases have only ended with 2 lemons...

 

According to the dealer, car has had DMF and clutch done, DPF was removed and engine remapped for better economy, full service history, much of which has been done by them over the last few years. Cambelt and water pump done at 80k, so will need doing in about 10k.

 

Any other specifics I should be looking for... 1.9 TDi manual... so no autobox problems to worry about.

 

Any advice and help welcomed.

 

Cheers

[nafetss]

First off, with the 1.9 TDI manual you've already picked the most reliable Superb engine. Most people here will tell you to go for the 5-Speed gearbox instead of the 6-Speed one. 

 

Take a close look at the trunk around the number plate lights. You will probably find some rust. I've seen everything from a few small bubbles to holes in the trunk. 

 

Park distance sensors are always a huge struggle in these cars. Make sure they are working, since replacement sensors aren't cheap and break often. 

 

Check the LED lights on the side mirrors. 

 

If the Superb has Xenon bulbs, check the headlight washers (light must be turned on when cleaning the windshield). The washers give one short burst of water each time pressed. If that shouldn't be working, try refilling windscreen-water, since the headlightpump stops working if the water level is low. 

Also check if the automatic lightlevel adjustment is working. 

[Gizmo]

How old is the car and what trim level?

 

I wasn’t aware any MKI came with a DPF, who did the remap? I have just removed a Quantum map from my car as despite it being more powerful it spoilt the way the car drove (far too peaky with the power delivery) It drove MUCH nicer as std... but obviously slower.

 

Other than that you have pretty much all the basic problems covered, the water ingress being the killer.

[jimbof]

Are you sure it is a 1.9? No UK 1.9's had DPF, so I smell BS. I think the 2L isn't quite 2000, and does have a DPF - any chance dealer is passing off a lemon 2L as a 1.9?

[rotodiesel]

Get the engine code. Don't go anywhere near:

 

A 2.0 PD or a V6 diesel or anything with a 6 speed manual transmission (4 cyl petrols are OK but too thirsty now for banger money)

An auto

A car that has ever been wet
Anything lowered/modified. Run if an American "snake oil" air cleaner has been fitted

Any evidence of poor workmanship or bodging - missing covers, caps etc. Incorrect engine oil (hard to prove)

Cheap tyres, brakes in poor shape

 

rotodiesel.

[Heckler]

Are you sure it is a 1.9? No UK 1.9's had DPF, so I smell BS. I think the 2L isn't quite 2000, and does have a DPF - any chance dealer is passing off a lemon 2L as a 1.9?

 

My mistake... I took it as a 1.9 TDi because Engine capacity is listed as 1968cc.  I've done a reg check on the vehicle and everything came back clean... No recorded accident damage, never reported stolen or insurance claims, original colour and plates... and the report is listing it as a 2lt with 1968cc. So my error, not the dealers. The only thing the report threw up was that it's ona SORN and the MoT expired 17th June 2015... Both of which the dealer had already informed me... 1: Because it's getting a new MoT for purchase (inc any advisories) and 2: Road Tax is new buyers responsibility... and as I have to change the car to Disabled use, I can't do anything about it before purchase (if I buy it).

 

Get the engine code. Don't go anywhere near:

 

A 2.0 PD or a V6 diesel or anything with a 6 speed manual transmission (4 cyl petrols are OK but too thirsty now for banger money)

An auto

A car that has ever been wet

Anything lowered/modified. Run if an American "snake oil" air cleaner has been fitted

Any evidence of poor workmanship or bodging - missing covers, caps etc. Incorrect engine oil (hard to prove)

Cheap tyres, brakes in poor shape

 

rotodiesel.

 

All solid advice, it is a 6spd Manual Diesel (2lt not 1.9 as I first though). Tyres are all Bridgestone from the pics I've seen

 

 

First off, with the 1.9 TDI manual you've already picked the most reliable Superb engine. Most people here will tell you to go for the 5-Speed gearbox instead of the 6-Speed one. 

 

Take a close look at the trunk around the number plate lights. You will probably find some rust. I've seen everything from a few small bubbles to holes in the trunk. 

 

Park distance sensors are always a huge struggle in these cars. Make sure they are working, since replacement sensors aren't cheap and break often. 

 

Check the LED lights on the side mirrors. 

 

If the Superb has Xenon bulbs, check the headlight washers (light must be turned on when cleaning the windshield). The washers give one short burst of water each time pressed. If that shouldn't be working, try refilling windscreen-water, since the headlightpump stops working if the water level is low. 

Also check if the automatic lightlevel adjustment is working. 

 

Thanks for that... I have noticed a couple of cars with rust on the bootlid, this car is coming from a VAG specialist who also carry out insurance repairs, body work and so forth... So I'll be looking closely for any signs of repairs that were never recorded.

 

After speaking to the dealer for about half an hour yesterday, and he walked around the car for me and seemed honest and straight... For example he told me that the rear passenger window regulator is faulty and they had bought a new one, but hadn't yet fitted it... They could have done that and I'd never be the wiser it was broken in the first place.

 

I'm a cynica when it comes to car purchases... I look for the bad.. but I'm quietly optomistic at the moment. Will know more on Tuesday.

 

How do I check the auto light adjustment?

 

Few more questions...

 

Any downsides to the remap and DPF removal?  I read a guide on burning of the soot in the filter... With no DPF I assume no need for DPF fluid or does that still get used even though filter is removed?

 

How easy to remap back to standard?

 

How to check the map disc version, and where (how much) for updated ones. Car is a 56 plate registered Feb 2007.

Car has optional coolbox in glovebox.. how does this work, how do I check it's working aside from sticking something room temp in there and waiting for it to get cold. 

 

Few details I left out... it's the Elegance model, so that means satnav, heated front and rear seats, dual zone climate control (I think).

Edited 28 June, 2015 by Heckler

[Gizmo]

DO NOT BUY A 2.0 MKI SUPERB!!!

 

End of story, all you will be doing is buying a time bomb that WILL explode at any time.

[0wl]

^^^ I strongly recommend you listen to what Gizmo just said ^^^

If you buy it everything might be fine, but if it goes wrong it'll very likely be a massive (expensive) pain to sort out

[Heckler]

DO NOT BUY A 2.0 MKI SUPERB!!!

 

End of story, all you will be doing is buying a time bomb that WILL explode at any time.

 

 

Can you expand on that please.... what's so wrong with the engine... I assume that's why because the rest of the car seems to be the same.

Edited 28 June, 2015 by Heckler

[Gizmo]

The 2.0 (140bhp) engine uses a very poor design for the oil pump drive, these can fail at very low mileage or high mileage... it really is a lottery, but one thing for sure is it will cost you more to fix WHEN it goes than the car is ever going to be worth.

 

There are lots of 1.9’s about, pick a good one and it will serve you well.

[nafetss]

How do I check the auto light adjustment?

 

How to check the map disc version, and where (how much) for updated ones. Car is a 56 plate registered Feb 2007.

Car has optional coolbox in glovebox.. how does this work, how do I check it's working aside from sticking something room temp in there and waiting for it to get cold. 

 

 

When you turn on the Xenon lights, the lens will drive all the way down and up into the endposition before it goes into the proper state. 

 

The "coolbox" is basically a hose from the climatronic that goes into the glovebox and the middle arm rest. If you open the "wheel", cold air blows in. The cooling effect isn't really good in my opinion.

 

 

Too bad the engine isn't a 1.9 PD. Personally, I wouldn't even go near a 2.0 PD TDI or 2.5 V6 TDI.

Edited 28 June, 2015 by nafetss

[Heckler]

The 2.0 (140bhp) engine uses a very poor design for the oil pump drive, these can fail at very low mileage or high mileage... it really is a lottery, but one thing for sure is it will cost you more to fix WHEN it goes than the car is ever going to be worth.

 

There are lots of 1.9’s about, pick a good one and it will serve you well.

 

Is there a fix to this?  Did VAG fix the problem that could be resolved by replacing the oil pump as a precaution?.. and how easy is it to replace before it fails and does any damage?

[jimbof]

There is no optional coolbox in the glovebox, just a vent from the heating. I believe they all have this - it is just a vent from the cold side of the air conditioning that you can open or close. The armrest also has this. Neither are particularly great. There was a proper coolbox which was fitted in the ski hatch, but that used up a lot of boot space.

Anyway, you want to stay away from a 2l. The oil pump drive goes, causing lots of damage. There are reports of some lasting well, but a lot don't, so why risk it...

It could have been SORN because of a failed pump, been bought cheap and fixed, but all speculation really.

[Gaz]

I'm surprised we don't have a sticky pinned at the top of the Mk1 area about the 2.0 engine in question.  Currently you need to know what question you're asking before you can search and find out what the problem is.

 

Just a thought.

 

Gaz

[jimbof]

Is there a fix to this? Did VAG fix the problem that could be resolved by replacing the oil pump as a precaution?.. and how easy is it to replace before it fails and does any damage?

Hundreds of pounds of parts / work, lots of slagging off of the different ways of fixing the drive between the different places that fix them... Why go there?

[jimbof]

Also, do 2l have a longer belt interval? 1.9 is only 60K miles; if it were a 1.9 it would be overdue.

[0wl]

FYI, the 1.9TDI engine capacity is 1,896cc

The engine code on the 2.0 TDI is BSS. Here are some threads on the issues with this engine that a quick google found on this site:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/190556-oil-pump-trashes-engine/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/283499-replacing-my-engine-dreaded-bss-code/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/181007-superb-tdi-140/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/141318-seeking-help-oil-pump-failure-issue-on-2-0tdi/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/164736-oil-warning-light/

This video shows how the oil pump drive shaft can get rounded:

[Heckler]

Found this post in another thread (by user Minimoke) when I was searching google about the 2lt PD oil pump issue.

 

I have the engine number that the car is supposed to have according to the report I got... but can't check it against the car until I go to see it... and if it's everyones advise to avoid the 2lt PD version... It seems daft making a 160 mile round trip to see it.

 

 

 

My understanding of the oil pump issue is that early PD 2.0 use a chain driven balance shaft which also drives the oil pump via a hex shaft in the pump itself. Oil pump issues could arise from either failure of the chain drive to the balancer shaft (hence no drive to the oil pump), or alternatively the hex drive itself would round off (due to the torsional stress/vibration from the balancer shaft and chain drive) again resulting in no drive to the oil pump.

Later PD 2.0 use a similar balancer shaft but with a different oil pump and gear drive. It is claimed that the gear drive smoothes out stress on the oil pump hex shaft so it should run much better. However it does not entirely negate the threat of failure of the hex shaft.

Can somebody with more technical knowledge than me confirm the above? Also somebody with access to ETKA should be able to confirm the engine codes of chain driven motors (which are allegedly more at risk), and whether the hex drive arrangement on the oil pump itself was modified/replaced as a result of the move to gear drive and the use of a different oil pump?

Regards
Minimoke

BTW I have a copy of an article from Audi Driver magazine about this point of weakness in the PD 2.0 engine. But I think its not entirely com0plete – its dated May 2009 but has a diagram illustrating the chain drive balance shaft system. It does not mention the (newer) gear driven system at all.

[Heckler]

FYI, the 1.9TDI engine capacity is 1,896cc

The engine code on the 2.0 TDI is BSS. Here are some threads on the issues with this engine that a quick google found on this site:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/190556-oil-pump-trashes-engine/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/283499-replacing-my-engine-dreaded-bss-code/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/181007-superb-tdi-140/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/141318-seeking-help-oil-pump-failure-issue-on-2-0tdi/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/164736-oil-warning-light/

This video shows how the oil pump drive shaft can get rounded:

 

 

Posted about the engine number just as you posted this... It's a BSS engine number.

 

You ever have that feeling that something seems to good to be true.... That's why I love places like this... Used to run an owners club myself many years ago.

[Heckler]

Well I have to say thank you to everyone who advised me about the engines... I've litterally spent the last 2 hours reading thread after thread on multiple forums all slating this particular engine.

 

It's safe to say that I will not be making the 160m roun trip to see it, as it was almost certain (if it was as good as advertised) that I'd purchase it. The superb has that extra wide door opening and leg room that I need... My dad is disabled you see.

 

 

So instead of going to see that, I'll be going to look at either a Totota Avensis hatchback or a Honda Accord estate... both top of the line diesel models with leather, satnav and all the trimmings... I can't find a single Superb Elegance within my price bracket, that's not far to old, to high mileage or is an auto.

 

Once again... thanks for making me aware of the issue.

 

 

 

P.S.   What's the problem with the 2.5 VS TDi engine?  Does that have a similar issue or is it just economy that's the problem?  I do a lot of shorter journeys... 25-30 miles at a time, with occasional 5-10 mile shopping tripes each week and the odd trip out for the day which can be anywhere from 40-200 miles. Once a year I take the foilks away for a week, so can easily do 500-1000 in a week.

 

My current Mondeo 53, 2lt Ghia X TDi gives me about 43-45mpg around town, 48-50mpg combined and anything up to 60mpg on a long cruise up the motorway at a stead 65mph... Onboard computer over reads by 3mpg so I've adjust my figures for that.

 

Anything that can get close to that, or at least hit 50mpg on a long cruise would be fine. I only average around 5000 miles a year anyway (I do some work from home).

Edited 28 June, 2015 by Heckler

[rotodiesel]

The problem with the V6 diesel engine is that it uses an old technology low pressure fuel system design (rotary pump) in a particularly nasty and unreliable fashion. These pumps are called VP44 and are made by Bosch.

 

Google "VP44 problems" and have a good browse.

 

This pump was designed when the CAV held patent on radial piston pumps expired. Not only has the mechanical design been problematic for many users, but Bosch further decided to incorporate a good deal of fragile electronics within the pump body, running in hot fuel.

 

You don't need to be a genius to work out what will probably happen to it sitting in the "V" of an engine, shaken to bits and thermally cycled...

 

The final rub is that the 4 cyl 1.9/130 PD engine goes just about as well, uses less fuel, is cheaper to tax and is not as heavy as the V6 - which makes the already ponderous handling even worse. Changing the cambelts/water pump/thermostat on the V6 is a pig of a job. Nil point.

 

rotodiesel.

Edited 28 June, 2015 by rotodiesel

[Heckler]

The problem with the V6 diesel engine is that it uses an old technology low pressure fuel system design (rotary pump) in a particularly nasty and unreliable fashion. These pumps are called VP44 and are made by Bosch.

 

Google "VP44 problems" and have a good browse.

 

This pump was designed when the CAV held patent on radial piston pumps expired. Not only has the mechanical design been problematic for many users, but Bosch further decided to incorporate a good deal of fragile electronics within the pump body, running in hot fuel.

 

You don't need to be a genius to work out what will probably happen to it sitting in the "V" of an engine, shaken to bits and thermally cycled...

 

The final rub is that the 1.0/130 PD engine goes just about as well, uses less fuel, is cheaper to tax and is not as heavy as the V6 - which makes the already ponderous handling even worse. Changing the cambelts/water pump/thermostat on the V6 is a pig of a job. Nil point.

 

rotodiesel.

 

Cheers for the blunt facts.  

 

Can't find a 1.9TDi Elegance at the moment, still searching and now I'm better informed, am eliminating anything with the 2lt PD engine and now the V6. Got a max of 3 grand to spend and that's pushing it. I can get £500 trade in for the Mondeo but that's already included in the budget.

[nafetss]

Good luck in finding a new car, regardless of the brand. 

I'm not sure if you actually ever sat in a Superb. One thing should be noted: There isn't a single car in this class that has nearly as much space for all passengers. If you want more space you'll have to go for an Audi A8, VW Phaeton or similar. 

Also they are dirt cheap for what you get in England. You can't get a proper Superb for ~3000€ from where I come from. 

[jimbof]

I think if you are after Elegance spec with 1.9 engine you probably need to be looking at 2006 and earlier. Once the 2L came out most of the higher spec cars ended up with that or the V6.

[Heckler]

Good luck in finding a new car, regardless of the brand. 

I'm not sure if you actually ever sat in a Superb. One thing should be noted: There isn't a single car in this class that has nearly as much space for all passengers. If you want more space you'll have to go for an Audi A8, VW Phaeton or similar. 

Also they are dirt cheap for what you get in England. You can't get a proper Superb for ~3000€ from where I come from. 

 

I very nearly bought one back in 2012, that was a 1.9PD but with an auto box... and as I discovered after leaving a deposit... the autobox was knackered and had been bodged. I refused to buy it and the seller got shirty about returning the deposit. Had to get trading standards involved and threaten them with legal action.

 

I think if you are after Elegance spec with 1.9 engine you probably need to be looking at 2006 and earlier. Once the 2L came out most of the higher spec cars ended up with that or the V6.

 

I didn't want to get a car as old as 2005 or more... was really looking at late 06 and 07 models... But as you say, these are all 2lt versions.

 

I looked at an Avensis estate today... that particular one wasn't good enough but I do like them, and they have acres of space in the boot... and decent amount of legroom. Tomorrow we're looking at a Honda accord estate.

 

Unless I can find a Superb in the right spec/price/engine I'm going to be compromising on one point or another. Slightly less leg room for easier access and more room in the boot for example. I've even considered an mpv with sliding rear doors as that would be very easy for him to get in and out of. But a car that big is pointless for my daily use. I'd be happy with an Estate or large hatchback... but the only saloon I'd consider is the superb because of the leg room, and it really needs to be an elegance model as I'm not giving up my leather seats.