Oil Pump Trashes Engine

[DoozyDave]

I am a new victim to the infamous oil pump failure.

My 2006 Mk1 Superb has the 2.0 140PD BSS diesel engine. This morning after driving 300 yards the oil pressure warning message appeared. I stopped as soon as possible. I called the AA. They started the engine and there was no warning message. After 30 seconds, the AA guy revved the engine to about 2500rpm and after about 5-10 seconds the warning appeared. He immediately turned it off.

AA then towed the car to a local Skoda dealer who quickly confirmed that there was no oil pressure due to suspected oil pump failure. They have now advised that the shaft(?) has welded itself to the pump and "in their experience" this could mean an engine change! I was asked if I had driven the car for a distance after the warning appeared and told them that I had for about two hundred yards at near-tickover. The said they would try customer services. Hopefully, "in their experience" this is not a waste of time.

This afternoon, I read the other threads about the Superb oil pump failures (sarcasm intended). This is obviously a design fault and latent defect. Even if their cars have been properly serviced by them, Skoda and VAG seem to treat the failure as wear and tear! I'm astounded Skoda and VAG would knowingly leave high risk customers (e.g. Superb Mk1 2.0 BSS diesel) without providing knowledge/warning or recall. It seems many of the failures occur soon after the 3 year warranty is up thereby leaving customers like me reeling with a huge bill. Are they really that cynical?

Between services, I had the car checked over by Skoda when the 3 year warranty was up. They suggested I consider the extended warranty. I thought it was a standard sales ploy (like at Dixons when you buy a vacuum cleaner). They did not mention any known mechanical risks for my car for me to take into account. I recall it being about £500 per year which seemed a lot for a car that had been very reliable. Money was (is) tight so I didn't take up the warranty. Cheap now of course.

Car history: 69,000 miles, full SUKSH, I am second owner - first owner SUK. Car used weekdays for 70 mile commute mostly on motorway and for local taxi-ing of kids, the kind of use the car is supposedly designed for. Never thrashed and averages 42 mpg.

Any help/advice about this would be appreciated. Sorry for the rant.

[rotodiesel]

I am sorry you have experienced this very damaging and expensive fault - particularly so as I have a 1.9 which is generally capable of high mileages without problems.

I find VAG's attitude towards the serious design faults that they seem to build into their cars (even though the "Skoda" sticker is at the bottom of the pile and generally gets the oldest models) to be totally unacceptable. It is quite incredible that the likes of Trading Standards and VOSA ignore these faults, some of which are dangerous.

My car was supplied by a dealer with self-blocking bungs fitted in the bottom of the plenum chamber. When blocked, these allow water to build up which rusts the vac chamber of the servo. This in turn causes a loss of brake servo assist and also causes engine damage due to water ingestion via the vac line. The water also causes other very expensive damage to the electronics and to the trim.

So, my car was supplied in a potentially dangerous condition - without question.

Obviously I have spent some of my time correcting this defect and several others. I won't be doing it again on a VAG vehicle.

Vote with your cheque book - my view is that these people trade dishonestly.

rotodiesel.

[Supurbia]

They do like to not come to the counter on this one, and in future you should be aware this same fault is in 05-07 B6 Passats as well with the BKP engines.

Now, back to your now expensive problem

On the up, you have full history

On the down it looks like this is your 1st VAG car, and it's done over the 60k mark and is now pushing 5 yrs old

They will offer a contribution, however I think that contribution will taste a bit sour, it will probably be 40% of a potential £5k for a new lump.

Another user has had this issue also, and he had 3 car relationships with VAG, full history and less miles, but they still asked him to sit on the shaft, Skodanut.

This is what I would advise you do if the VAG contribution is poor, have the sump taken off and get the pump out, have a new pump fitted and pray the turbo is still ok, I think you may get away with this as yours didn't seem to be a complete failure, if it is ok you can expect a bill of around £700 at an independant, which you will have to pay yourself, do not start the car again, and if you possibly can remember did it smoke when it threw up the message, if it didn't you should be ok with the turbo, and i'd recommend a 500 mile oil change once you've got it running again, this is on top of the one that you must have when it's repaired, that way any floaters should be in the corncob by then.

Edited 9 February, 2011 by Supurbia

[DoozyDave]

Thanks Rotodiesel and Superbia,

Still waiting for a response about SUK or factory good will. Sitting tight with everything crossed. Expecting to be told tomorrow. I'll update you then.

BTW, this is not my first VAG car. From 2002 to 2005 I had a 1.8 Golf and had in serviced by a VW dealer despite it being over 10 years old. Hopefully that will come up on their database too.

[dekevrs]

I'm there with you in spirit fella. Nightmare. I have a 2.0 td 07 plate with 15000 miles. Would you say warranty would have covered it. Mine is due in April and now thinking it is worth it.

[radioone]

it is also common on Audi A4's, and the balancer shaft has to be timed up! which if you do not have the correct tools, can be a ball ache!

Good luck getting it sorted, but also try speaking to TPS, and get the price of a new engine, oil pump and other bits you may need. Someone at your local TPS will know what bits is needed, as we supply to a few garages a month for the same problem.

Think the last one we did (on monday) was in the region of around £1000 once they had stripped it down and found what was needed. (Independant garage).

And there labour on top. if all goes well, could only cost between £1000 and £1500 if your lucky!

[rwbaldwin]

Thanks Rotodiesel and Superbia,

Still waiting for a response about SUK or factory good will. Sitting tight with everything crossed. Expecting to be told tomorrow. I'll update you then.

BTW, this is not my first VAG car. From 2002 to 2005 I had a 1.8 Golf and had in serviced by a VW dealer despite it being over 10 years old. Hopefully that will come up on their database too.

Did they by any change say it's the first time they've seen the problem?

Contact a local VW independent and find out how much they will charge. Even with any goodwill from SUK, it may be significantly more expensive at the dealers.

Also with SUK in denial, they may want to take minimalist approach to fixing it.

[skodanut]

Well i've read this unfortunate thread, and it seems that doozydave is going to have the same senario that i went through with suk.Here i was with no oil pressure and trying to explain to them that a 38,940 mileage superb should not have a ruined engine, and all they could come up with is your warranty has expired and all i was offered was 30% goodwill for being a good customer and absolutely nothing for the engine !

They told me to take car to dealer to get it checked out, and upon finding out the labour charge and time it took to diagnose the problem, that alone was way too much to contemplate paying. Also the timescale given was totally inadequate, in my case i actually priced it all up including labour in different stages of repair, ie, short engine remove and replace, full engine remove and replace, and that didnt even include the turbocharger !.So here i was, with a dead superb, with not a hope in hell of finding that kind of money, and i basically had to refuse their offer.

So the poor old superb that looked basically brand new had to sit on my driveway and basically die a very slow death, and believe me, seeing it everyday going to work sitting there, knowing that it should be on the road wasnt very pleasant at all. But as they say every cloud has a silver lining, 6mths later, my mother in law said to my wife get the car fixed, as she was going to pay for the repairs, and it took some time to actually spring back into action and find a good garage that would be interested in actually doing the work that was required, and i am now pleased to say..that skody 1 ( my wife's name for it..doh ) is now back on the road with a brand spanking new engine and sailed through the mot with a couple of advisories.

The only gripe i have now believe it or not, is that it drives better than our motability superb greenline 1.9tdi...and it seems as if it has two turbo's compared to the greenline's one and the 140 bhp superb is a totally different drive...basically as if it has left the dealer's showroom.

[skodanut]

And full marks for the independant garage that did all the work...very understanding and excellent mechanics

[rwbaldwin]

And full marks for the independant garage that did all the work...very understanding and excellent mechanics

Nice to see it's back on the road. I did feel for you when you were asking about laying it up.

The concentricity of the oil pump drive on later balancer units is much, much better. None of the units (or engines) I have replaced has suffered from the same fate.

Edited 9 February, 2011 by rwbaldwin

[skodanut]

Thanks for that info...so in your opinion, the chances of the oil pump failing again is much reduced or eliminated then? Because what i have now is the car back to when we first bought it...yes i know the other components have done 38940 miles, but basically nought miles with the engine. Was wondering what kind of mileage i would get if my wife and i decided to keep it? As the motability car has proved to be perfect for what we need, its still costing my wife £7200 over the 3 yr contract, money that could be better spent elsewhere, and if her skody 1 proves to be more reliable than before, would it be worth keeping? just a thought.

[rwbaldwin]

Thanks for that info...so in your opinion, the chances of the oil pump failing again is much reduced or eliminated then? Because what i have now is the car back to when we first bought it...yes i know the other components have done 38940 miles, but basically nought miles with the engine. Was wondering what kind of mileage i would get if my wife and i decided to keep it? As the motability car has proved to be perfect for what we need, its still costing my wife £7200 over the 3 yr contract, money that could be better spent elsewhere, and if her skody 1 proves to be more reliable than before, would it be worth keeping? just a thought.

Despite me seeing an Audi fail at 26000, VAG say there isn't a problem. So when you ask VAG if the problem has been fixed, you get BS.

Given that VAG won't say, I can only guess. I think it has been fixed and I base this in part on the cars I see that don't have the problem.

A local design engineer had a quick look at an 'old' and 'new' balancer shaft. He thinks that whilst the design is the same, the tooling/method used to create the shaft drive is different (better we hope). VAG won't confirm this and will only say the design is the same.

The Audi is coming in for a 100k service this month, so the new engine has done 74k. It's a sad state of affairs when you think of engine doing 74k as an achievement.

Keep everything crossed.

[rotodiesel]

It's a crappy setup. I wouldn't consider keeping a 2.0 PD engine - there are loads of other engines around which don't do this. Even VAG make some of them.

rotodiesel.

[skodanut]

Well i am going to see if i can actually sell the car on, it doesnt make sense to own two cars, when the motablity greenline superb is only costing us 10 quid a week in fuel,and everything else is catered for. While our car has a yrs mot and a brand new engine, and still looks in very good condition, maybe just maybe someone will take a liking to it,and basically drive in a new superb that in my opinion drives better than our greenline superb!

[Gizmo]

Well i am going to see if i can actually sell the car on...

I know that must of been a hard decision to come to but I do believe it is the best thing to do, otherwise you would always of had that nagging doubt in your mind of when it would fail again

[skodanut]

I have a couple of irons in the fire so speak...just got to give the car a good wash and polish and give the car a basic once over and then make enquiries into saying goodbye to it.

Thats the problem gizmo, although the engine was replaced,a complete full engine, and what with rwbaldwin saying the oil pump might have been improved, how does one work out if the problem will happen again?. And like you say there is always the worry, and knowing my luck i'd be worrying for a possible 60k miles wondering if the senario will happen again. In hindsight, it probably wont happen again if i did end up keeping it, as it would be relegated to very low mileage use, approx less than 5k miles a year, and if i divided that by the mileage the pump failed, that equates to just over 7yrs use! So dammed tempting to keep it doh!

[DoozyDave]

My local Skoda garage called me with news.

Based on a new engine being fitted, the factory are willing to pay 100% of the cost of parts and Skoda Customer services have offered a good will contribution of approx £350. This leaves me with a bill of approx £1050 + VAT (sorry for the approximate figures but I left my notes at work).

Setting aside that the engine damage should never of happened, I'm pretty satisfied with the response, particularly considering the derisory offers to Skodanut and others. Yes, I am having to fork out about £1,300 but I will have a new engine which going by what RWBaldwin says is unlikely to fail again. I cannot afford to change the car for a couple of years so hopefully it will see me through until then. (To RWBaldwin - yes, the dealer did admit that the oil pump failure has happened to other Superb Mk1 owners with the BSS engine but would not be drawn on how prevalent it is)

Yesterday, I took Radioone's advice and contacted TPS London South East. They immediately knew what I needed and said they could supply me with the oil pump and balancer shaft kit for around £700+ VAT. They said that they get 2 or 3 similar inquiries a week for VAG cars with the BSS engine. Considering TPS have more than 60 shops in the UK, oil pump failure is a decent earner for them.

My skoda dealer told me a new engine unit would be £4660 + VAT. When you add a little more for small parts associated with the engine swap plus the Customer Services contribution and my cost you arrive at a total bill for the chocolate oil pump/balancer shaft of about £7,200!

I should get the car back at the end of next week.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

[skodanut]

Pm sent doozydave

[Supurbia]

Nutty, how much did yours cost in the end?

[skodanut]

Hello supurbia..well bearing in mind my mother in law gave us the money for the replacement engine with no need to pay her back, and our final bill came to £4180 inc vat@20%...which although sounds expensive, and relatively cheap to what Doozydave engine is going to cost, and a saving in effect of £3020.All i can say is our car is basically as it was when we drove it out of the showroom...lovely and quiet and extremely comfortable...totally different to drive than the present greenline superb we have at the moment.It was a pity we never had the cash before we contacted skoda uk...but then again, we will never know what the final bill would have been, and from the £7200 quid quote to sort doozydaves car out, we think we got a pretty good deal shopping around.At least the car is now sellable and the car flew through the mot with only a couple of advisories.....going to be a nice car for someone.

If only i had that torque in the greenline !!

[Supurbia]

Hello supurbia..well bearing in mind my mother in law gave us the money for the replacement engine with no need to pay her back, and our final bill came to £4180 inc vat@20%...which although sounds expensive, and relatively cheap to what Doozydave engine is going to cost, and a saving in effect of £3020.All i can say is our car is basically as it was when we drove it out of the showroom...lovely and quiet and extremely comfortable...totally different to drive than the present greenline superb we have at the moment.It was a pity we never had the cash before we contacted skoda uk...but then again, we will never know what the final bill would have been, and from the £7200 quid quote to sort doozydaves car out, we think we got a pretty good deal shopping around.At least the car is now sellable and the car flew through the mot with only a couple of advisories.....going to be a nice car for someone.

If only i had that torque in the greenline !!

Ouch!

If it happens again, say nowt and ask a kind lorry driver to back into it at speed.

[skodanut]

Thats the problem supurbia...if!!. As rw baldwin states the oil pump has probably been improved, and the chances of it happening again ? well thats anybodys guess, but if the drive for the pump is less likely to wear out, then theoretically the engine could attain high miles providing it is serviced very regularly. But hand on heart, although the car drives like new and very quiet, smooth and effortless power, there will always be that worry in the back of my mind, and as much as i'd like to keep it,seems pointless having two cars, so it will moved onto eventual new ownership for someone else to enjoy.

[Supurbia]

Thats the problem supurbia...if!!. As rw baldwin states the oil pump has probably been improved, and the chances of it happening again ? well thats anybodys guess, but if the drive for the pump is less likely to wear out, then theoretically the engine could attain high miles providing it is serviced very regularly. But hand on heart, although the car drives like new and very quiet, smooth and effortless power, there will always be that worry in the back of my mind, and as much as i'd like to keep it,seems pointless having two cars, so it will moved onto eventual new ownership for someone else to enjoy.

They aren't easy to sell tbh, that's why I suggested you scrap it earlier and the scrap value broken up plus what you've just spent would equal what it's worth now, anyway good luck with it, I don't think anything design wise has changed, and as you are aware even servicing it doesn't prevent it happening.

[skodanut]

That was the problem supurbia..i couldnt scrap the car as it was still owing on finance...i've been to see the local dealer who supplied the car and awaiting to see if they are interested in purchasing it off us..incidentally they have one for sale...same model, more miles than the one we have, shorter mot,and asking a fair bit for it. Makes ours look like a real bargain to be had in our opinion.

We had to get it repaired, as it was basically a liability being a non runner, and now with a new engine and years mot it is now an asset.We aren't asking bucket loads for it, and certainly less than what the dealer is selling their model for. Incidentally i got a reasonable online valuation from we buy any car...and it would mean we could walk away finance paid and a bit in the bank!

[BXR770]

Reading this thread with great interest as i bought a 2.0 140 which had the problem.

sadly my 04 1.9 had to be retired due to my local council and their age restrictions(taxi)

the old car had achieved 277k and still had plently of life in it.

the big question i have is - am i replacing the oil pump and drive with the same parts that are likely to fail again or is there a modified pump which can be fitted? Fitting a replacement engine also means i could be faced with the same problems 30k later?

any constructive feedback would be helpful thanks!