Yeti burning oil. Should pistons and rods be replaced as well as piston rings?

[mikaelse]

The reason for all this is that the motor 1.8 TSI seem to have an embarrasing design flaw.  

On all petrol car engines there is a oil scraping ring that has the task of scraping of the oil of the cylinder walls and sending it back into the sump thorugh holes in it.

They made the ring narrow 1.5 mm and hence the holes small so that they seem to clogg over time with accelerating oil use as the effect.

The new piston with the redesigned rings 2.0 mm also has other dimensions on other connecting stuff . That is why other parts are normally needed also.

Just fitting new rings with same bad design again should help for a while. A guess is maybe as the first ones if you are lucky.  

You can buy the revised pistons with revised rings especially made to fit with your old parts. 600£ for a set of KS(karl schmidt) pistons.

Then it is a large job and needs a lot of other small stuff to change them.

 

The cam chain tensioner also seem to be a bad design. Smart to fix when the motor is out   

The old one is reported to be at some risk to kill the engine instantly to scrap even at low mileage. 
If you have a motor ear you can reportedly typically hear it before it happens and make repairs.

Not an easy fix. Inexpensive part but several hours of work.    

[Ryeman]

Do everything in one hit rather than doubling up on labour charges eg water pump if it's done reasonably mileage etc

Check for worn looms, hoses, pipes (chafing) and belts also

[spottydog]

I've just had my 1.8 tsi Octavia done, luckily at no cost to me as I had recently bought the car from a Skoda dealer.

My test distance was 300km which was more than enough to determine excess usage. Most people with this problem probably wouldn't get to 1000km without needing to top up the oil.
Pistons, rings, con rods, timing chain, tensioner and all associated bolts and seals renewed plus the cylinder head completely stripped and cleaned.
I've only done 200 miles since the repair so early days. It's used a small amount of oil but I'll monitor it as I'm a low mileage user.

Dealer was excellent all through the process.

[Urrell]

Interesting that they fit a new rod also.

Is that because of a different offset or simply easier than strip and reassemble ?.

If they have to replace the rods as part of the solution it seems to me there is something in the original design that is contributing to the problem.

[spottydog]

I think the pistons were redesigned as well as the rings so the original con rods would not fit the new pistons, therefore new rods required as well. The original problem was the design of the oil scraper piston ring if I remember rightly.

[Ryeman]

A new short motor plus new stem seals would be quicker and just as cheap I would have thought .

[YetiSweden]

Thank you everyone for your comments, and explaining this annoying design flaw. It's interesting and shocking to hear about the scale of this problem in VW-group cars in this age group.

 

@Briskodian: That was a useful, succint decription that I've copied for my records. I hope your Octavia is now fixed. I'm glad your dealer was so helpful and you haven't had to pay for that extensive work.

 

I'm really in two minds what to do myself. I think here in Sweden the price for all the work that needs to be done to fully fix the problem (upwards of £5000 at the Skoda garage) would be almost equal to the value of the car. I could force the issue with the small business that I bought the car from and probably legally get him to pay, but I don't know if that's the right thing to do. This design flaw is Skoda's fault, not his, and he had no idea about it when he sold me the car in good faith. I'm ****ed off about his crappy communication about the work that he's arranged to be done (ring replacement), but does he deserve to foot the bill for the complete work? I don't know. I also don't want to offer to pay part because part would still be a hell of a lot. I'm leaning towards accepting his not-nearly-enough-to-fix-it ring replacement and just running the car into the ground. I really like the car, and except for sometimes wishing for more space when we go on a road trip with two kids in their car seats, we have no intention of selling it any time soon. I live in the north of Sweden and with our deep snow in the winter and muddy slush in the Spring I get to use the off-road button quite often, always with great satisfaction!

 

It's kind of gone from a mechanical question to a moral quandry!

[Ryeman]

If they stand by the statement that they will fix it, then I wouldn't hassle them too much over detail as they are probably getting less than enthusiastic assistance from Skoda/VW themselves.

Dealers are inevitably the meat in the proverbial in such instances I expect.

[spottydog]

YetiSweden can you not just get a refund from the dealer then the problem is no longer yours. As you say it is not directly their fault but they have sold you a defective car.

I understand the moral dilemma but it could cost you thousands of pounds through no fault of your own.

[rayx]

Few details, BS pistons from engines CDAA and CDAB and others eating too much oil can´t be fixed with new rings as those rings are not available for its bad design (small height etc.)... Therefore there is an option to use BK pistons from first generation EA888 engines 1.8 TSI engine code BZB. In this case you do not need new con rods as you stay with pins of 21mm. New pistons, either CP, DF or latest DL have pins of 23mm, another improvement from VAG ... Similar with 2.0 TSI CCZA and siblings ...

 

https://translate.google.cz/translate?hl=cs&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hartogtuning.nl%2Foh_ht_news.php%3Ff%3D84

 

https://www.drive2.ru/b/2783707/

https://www.drive2.ru/b/2786907/

 

In case engines of second stage from EA888, in general years from 2009 to 2011, do not eat yet too much of oil, use only ACEA A3/B4 oils without any Cx, VW norm 502.00 for fixed intervals 15000km/1year.

 

See what was recommended for Russian market already on 2013, this for Skoda, but the same is valid for the whole VW group in Russia in their service manuals ... I truly believe conditions are not specific only for Russia ...

 

 

 

https://www.drive2.ru/b/2895694/
https://www.drive2.com/l/2539050/
http://www.seat-club.ru/showpost.php?p=445...mp;postcount=41
http://forum.auto.ru/oil/249918/#post-249930
https://www.drive2.ru/l/4071550/
https://www.drive2.ru/b/1287890/

Edited 12 December, 2016 by rayx

[rayx]

Yet better copy of Skoda letter

 

and nice summary, hopefully usable in Sweden too ...

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/413114-18tsi-oil-consumption/?p=4725053

Edited 12 December, 2016 by rayx

[YetiSweden]

Yet better copy of Skoda letter

 

and nice summary, hopefully usable in Sweden too ...

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/413114-18tsi-oil-consumption/?p=4725053

 

 

Thank you for all the info. Where we stand now is that the Skoda garage have sent an email to the dealer informing him that a ring change will not be sufficient. It's important that we have that in writing for if and when we follow it up when the problem isn't fixed.

 

YetiSweden can you not just get a refund from the dealer then the problem is no longer yours. As you say it is not directly their fault but they have sold you a defective car.

I understand the moral dilemma but it could cost you thousands of pounds through no fault of your own.

 

I think he might offer a refund in the end. We would have to think hard about that. We don't really want the hassle of car shopping again.

[Sibu]

 

Hi,

 

Despite googling a while I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer to this. fingers crossed someone here has some advice!

 

My 2009 Skoda Yeti is going through oil fast, and after running various diagnostics and fixing any potential leaks, the Skoda garage have diagnosed that the car is burning oil. If they were fixing the problem themselves, they would replace the piston rings, pistons and rods. Because I noticed and reported the problem within 6 months of buying the second hand car, according to Swedish law (I'm not Swedish, but live in Sweden), the seller has to fix the problem. He is not going to the Skoda garage, but to somewhere else where they've never dealt with this before, and they've told me they're not going to replace the pistons and rods, only the piston rings.

 

The Skoda garage tell me replacing just the rings is unlikely to fix the problem (although it may do for a short time). I don't know who to trust!

 

Is just replacing the rings a reasonable fix? 

 

Thanks in advance for your comments!

 

Have you rectified your Oil burning problem or are you still looking out for a solution ?

[YetiSweden]

Have you rectified your Oil burning problem or are you still looking out for a solution ?

 

I'm still waiting to hear. The car is still at the workshop. It's been over two weeks now, so I'm thinking about getting my Swedish speaking friend to give them a call to get an update. I'm not really enjoying the courtesy car.

[YetiSweden]

Latest update from the car workshop: the pistons are badly damaged, as expected. They're replacing everything, so the seller must have given them the go-ahead.

[Great Yeti]

That's a GOOD result! Really pleased for you  :clap:   :dance:  :thumbup:

 

Now sit back - Relax - and have a Happy Christmas! (Followed by a trouble free [motoring and every otherwise] new year)

[rayx]

Good, so new con rods and pistons from VAG are the option, correct? Now the only valid version of pistons per VAG parts catalog ETKA is with DL suffix, make them sure they use this and not DF ones. This will ensure the issue does not come back again when using LongLife service and oils. Hope you get your car back soon and will use it without troubles ;)

[Ootohere]

Good.

I would suggest you forget Variable / Flexible servicing once rebuilt, and no use of LONG LIFE (often short engine life) Oil.

 

Do fixed servicing and use the correct spec Full Synthetic oil suitable for fixed servicing.

[VAGCF]

I have annual oil and filter changes on my cars whatever the mileage (pretty low) but they still use the Longlife oil. Done by Skoda and Audi main dealers.

I thought that this is supposed to be a better specification than that used for fixed/annual servicing?

[Llanigraham]

I have annual oil and filter changes on my cars whatever the mileage (pretty low) but they still use the Longlife oil. Done by Skoda and Audi main dealers.

I thought that this is supposed to be a better specification than that used for fixed/annual servicing?

 

My understanding as well.

[Ootohere]

Many peoples understanding.

£1-£2 or so a litre more and change it less often, even half as often.

Even run for 19,000 miles with the same oil filter.

 

Great for Fleet Buyers that run vehicles for 3 or 4 years and want cheaper Servicing Regimes,

Does it give better engine protection when there is a private owner that wants a keeper for 5 or more years?

Edited 20 December, 2016 by Offski

[Ryeman]

Fleet sales are the target for many mass producers and servicing is in a race to the bottom best avoided IMO

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

I must say that we only have 5w30s fully synthetic long life oil in our tanks. It's the highest spec on offer and most versatile. It's also dearer than quantum platinum or standard but offers the best protection and because of our baulk buying discount we sell it for very little and at the same price regardless of fixed or long life regime.

[Ootohere]

In what way does it actually offer the better protection being Long Life and 5w 30 FS when some engines get better protection from 5w 40 FS ?

 

Look at the engines that are failing in the VW Range  1.4 TSI, 1.8 TSI, 2.0 TSI Euro 5 emissions using the VW Group recommended long life oils, 

and some that benefit greatly when VW 502 00 5w 40 is used instead.

 

?

Do you not believe as some other technicians now seem to do in putting 5w 40 (VW 502 00) into 1.4 TSI with a thirst for oil instead of the

VW Recommended VW 504 00?

 

If the stuff you have is the only stuff you use then i suppose that is what customers get.

Some are not worried about the costs, just wanting the best protection so that will quite often not be from Castrol or Quantum.

Edited 20 December, 2016 by Offski

[VAGCF]

Yes James, that's the impression I got from the Audi dealer - no point in holding two types when one will do both jobs and is therefore more cost effective for the dealer.